disenrolled 22 days before graduation

Pima

10-Year Member
I think many don't think of the repayment under the bad scenario situation. Our DS did because his Dad saw too many UPT students cut, and given their walking papers. We just wanted him to not have that burden on his mind at UPT. That plus he was able to get his car loan at 0% int., no fear that it would jump to 19%+. He only took 10K; 5k into an IRA and 5K into a money market savings account. This way even if the bad happened, he could consolidate everything and pay it back without taking too much of a hit...i.e just the IRA if he had to at the worst.

I wouldn't want to even think about if they hit him with a 6 figure bill. Combine those 2, and if he has to take a loan to complete his degree, he could be looking at 2000-2500 a month before he walks out the door. Of course not one of those would be cleared even if he declared bankruptcy.

Like the starter loan, I don't think many cadets think about the fine print on their AFA or AFROTC scholarship contract either. That is why IMPO, this thread is invaluable to every candidate and cadet. It is not anecdotal, where they heard from someone that they know someone that was told they had to re-pay it. These are actual posters saying yes, we got the bill.
 

Christcorp

10-Year Member
Interest rates are irrelevant if you pay back in full. It could be 200% interest and it wouldn't matter. Most cadets who take the money in their 3rd year, usually held onto it. Invest it. Etc... until they graduate. The only ones who will have major problems are those who bought a new car with it.
 

charlier

5-Year Member
can we talk?

bigdog,

my son is a junior and has a very similar story. can we talk?

private message me please
 

ex-cadet15

New Member
BigDog,

Be there for your son. More than ever he will need you now. Life will be complicated for awhile. Try not to rehash the "why's" to many times. Even as parents, we grieve our children's mistakes. It takes time. Accept (as it seems you have) and move forward (easier said than done). There is a group on FB if you are interested please PM me. Others have gone through different reasons for leaving, but the group as a whole is very supportive and there to help with any resources they have discovered along the way.
Hi kdc246, I read above about a FB page for disenrolled cadets? I was disenrolled due to a Hard ARC back in '14 while in my 2-dig year. I was fortunate enough to be allowed to fulfill my commitment requirements through enlisted service. I am halfway through my enlistment obligation but have been having a heck of a time with a number of enlisted problems. Without getting too far into the weeds here, disenrolled cadets ordered to AD are subject to a few obscure AFIs that most supervisors and First Shirts don't know about. These AFIs make it very tricky to obtain several non-trivial things such as a paycheck and timely promotions. I love to serve... but 3 months of showing up for duty before receiving a paycheck can wear anybody's nerves thin! Anyway, to avoid further rambling, I would be thankful if you knew of such a FB group! Have a good one!
 

thepetester

5-Year Member
Quick question.

Is cheating on a test less of an offense than disobeying an order?

Just asking.

Wing,

I get what you are saying.

This is indeed a difficult time, and every option we can think of will help them.

I was playing the opposite to make sure they think about it before making a decision. The fact is they are late in the game for fall semester to get that degree, and although that sounds great, they still have time to talk to admissions or grad school to see how competitive their package will be for winter semester.

It is also why I posted look into internships. If I am right, they are in TX, and companies like TI, are HQd there. We don't know their major.

Thomas Edison, might not be worth the cost, if UTA is highly competitive for grad school.
Isn't cheating on a test disobeying an order?
 

haleym

5-Year Member
Isn't cheating on a test disobeying an order?
No. At the Air Force Academy, cheating is considered an honor violation as opposed to a UCMJ violation. The cadet accused of cheating would go before an honor board made up of fellow cadets, who find whether or not they are in violation. Disenrollment may be a possibility for a cadet who has cheated. Charging someone with an Article 92 (disobeying a general order), on the other hand, is very serious, and could land the offender in a court martial and maybe even earn them a dishonorable discharge.
 

bigdog77515

5-Year Member
I wonder what eventually became of our disenrolled cadet?
The Good: Received his Aerospace Engineering degree and started working immediately. Has a very good job, making great money.

The Bad: Government is expecting him to pay back his time enrolled at USAFA. They take any money he would have received on a tax return, but otherwise he hasn't received a thing from anyone as to how much money he owes or what the interest rate is or even who he'd send money to if he wanted to start paying.

The girlfriend who created this mess with him became his wife. My wife and I had some reservations about her from the beginning and they came to fruition. He just found out she's been cheating on him for a year and they are now in the process of a divorce.

From the outset of this ordeal we let him handle it and we never interfered. As I said in a previous post, he created the problem and we let the problem be his problem, not ours. The process strained our relationship big-time, but after the realization of what his wife was doing to him we are now close again.

To be continued...
 

AROTC-dad

Moderator
5-Year Member
The Good: Received his Aerospace Engineering degree and started working immediately. Has a very good job, making great money.
Thanks for checking in, Bigdog. Glad to hear your DS finished his degree and embarked on a great career. Sorry to hear about the divorce, but this may play out for the best.

Please keep us informed!
 

Capt MJ

10-Year Member
The Good: Received his Aerospace Engineering degree and started working immediately. Has a very good job, making great money.

The Bad: Government is expecting him to pay back his time enrolled at USAFA. They take any money he would have received on a tax return, but otherwise he hasn't received a thing from anyone as to how much money he owes or what the interest rate is or even who he'd send money to if he wanted to start paying.

The girlfriend who created this mess with him became his wife. My wife and I had some reservations about her from the beginning and they came to fruition. He just found out she's been cheating on him for a year and they are now in the process of a divorce.

From the outset of this ordeal we let him handle it and we never interfered. As I said in a previous post, he created the problem and we let the problem be his problem, not ours. The process strained our relationship big-time, but after the realization of what his wife was doing to him we are now close again.

To be continued...
@bigdog77515


You are very kind to update SAF, checking back in two years after the last post. Your son has no doubt had a jumbo-size serving of life lessons in the last few years.

If he wants to get some clarity on his situation WRT to his payback, so he knows what he's dealing with and not wondering when the hammer is going to fall, it may be worthwhile to consult a lawyer who specializes in these cases. They know the law and precedent, they know who to contact at DFAS and the AF, and they may be able to negotiate a settlement and reasonable installment plan. Your son could then plan accordingly and get on with career and re-building his personal life.

I have no personal knowledge of the firms below, a sample of many entries when googling "service Academy ROTC disenrollment lawyer":

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.domeklaw.com/amp/disenrollment-hearings-and-recoupment-actions.html


http://www.militarydefense.com/Practice-Areas/ROTC-Disenrollment.shtml

https://www.calcagnilaw.com/military-defense/rotc-disenrollment-hearings-defense-lawyer/


These firms are usually former military JAGs and quite often offer a complimentary initial consult. A case like your son's is not unusual.

I know you have been staying out of it. As a retired senior officer and mentor, this is info I would have passed on - and have - to separated military members who I felt were "good people who did bad things." The govt payback can be sorted out with a good advocate, and some peace of mind obtained. If he waits for the govt to come up with a plan, well, it won't be pretty. Please pass this thought on for me.
 

bigdog77515

5-Year Member
The Bad: Government is expecting him to pay back his time enrolled at USAFA. They take any money he would have received on a tax return, but otherwise he hasn't received a thing from anyone as to how much money he owes or what the interest rate is or even who he'd send money to if he wanted to start paying.

This is still a crazy situation. He is now having his wages garnished, however, he started his own company and isn't taking a salary so that has stopped. We don't talk about it much (out of sight out of mind, I guess) but I still think he hasn't received any actual official documentation as to where he could send payments.

The reason I came back to update is that there has been a HUGE ironic twist to this story. With the new company he created there has been some grants and investors from Silicon Valley interested. And after applying for grants, guess who is offering a $125,000 grant? The Air Force Academy. Seriously. I'll update in the coming months. LOL!
 

Incognito

Member
The Bad: Government is expecting him to pay back his time enrolled at USAFA. They take any money he would have received on a tax return, but otherwise he hasn't received a thing from anyone as to how much money he owes or what the interest rate is or even who he'd send money to if he wanted to start paying.

This is still a crazy situation. He is now having his wages garnished, however, he started his own company and isn't taking a salary so that has stopped. We don't talk about it much (out of sight out of mind, I guess) but I still think he hasn't received any actual official documentation as to where he could send payments.

The reason I came back to update is that there has been a HUGE ironic twist to this story. With the new company he created there has been some grants and investors from Silicon Valley interested. And after applying for grants, guess who is offering a $125,000 grant? The Air Force Academy. Seriously. I'll update in the coming months. LOL!
My DD is a rising Freshman and is considering the SAs so I’ve been scouring SAF for information and somehow stumbled upon this post and now I am HOOKED! I just read back through the whole thread and found myself clicking to the next page like I was turning a page in a can’t-put-it-down suspense novel. I was probably way more excited than I should have been to see a recent update! Can’t wait to find out how the grant plays out!
 

bopper

Member
Did he ever get a degree? If not, check out Thomas Edison State College. You can transfer as many credits as you want there.
 

USMAROTCFamily

5-Year Member
Did he ever get a degree? If not, check out Thomas Edison State College. You can transfer as many credits as you want there.
Yes he got his degree in aerospace engineering.
Can you explain the route he took to finish his degree? Was he able to get into another college right away in fall 2013? Did the school just allow him to do one semester to graduate or did they have a minimum of 1 year?
 

Mr2020

U.S. Merchant Marine Academy '19
The Bad: Government is expecting him to pay back his time enrolled at USAFA. They take any money he would have received on a tax return, but otherwise he hasn't received a thing from anyone as to how much money he owes or what the interest rate is or even who he'd send money to if he wanted to start paying.

This is still a crazy situation. He is now having his wages garnished, however, he started his own company and isn't taking a salary so that has stopped. We don't talk about it much (out of sight out of mind, I guess) but I still think he hasn't received any actual official documentation as to where he could send payments.

The reason I came back to update is that there has been a HUGE ironic twist to this story. With the new company he created there has been some grants and investors from Silicon Valley interested. And after applying for grants, guess who is offering a $125,000 grant? The Air Force Academy. Seriously. I'll update in the coming months. LOL!
I hope that Aerospace Engr degree gave him the common sense to realize that the govt will eventually get every cent of the money and interest that he owes. By taking a lackadaisical approach to this he's probably looking at interest. I hope it's not compounded, because this has gone on for years. Literally the only ways he could get out of paying Uncle Sam are 1) dying or 2) moving to a 3rd world country and changing his name.
 
@Mr2020 , it has been several years since the cadet was separated and yet:
he hasn't received any actual official documentation as to where he could send payments.
I don't see anywhere in this long thread where the cadet is trying to get out of paying. I do see where there is some difficulty in actually paying.
 
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