Disenrollment investigation for IFC medical requirements

[HighPole]

My daughter is being investigated for disenrollment because she has not been able to timely process requirements. At this time, she has not completed the appointments at the flight medicine is She has been unsuccessful in contacting the coordinator of the flight medicine group for IFC medical. She started in January, but there have been only two communications with flight medicine, and in May, the Flight Med clinic officer told the detachment that due to a severe manning problem to process her IFC appointment. The Det did not share this with my daughter until she received the notice. Also, daughter found out from other staff in the flight med clinic, that there is no one handling the IFC and the program is falling apart. All this time it is my daughter calling and emailing the flight medicine clinic, the det cadre provided no alternative or option. On his own, daughter was able to find another base clinic to process her IFC, but it is going to be tight to complete it by year end. She is worried that even with her efforts finding another option this investigation is derailing her efforts and also impacting her schoolwork especially it is finals in 2 weeks. Any ideas or suggestions? Please share.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

My daughter is being investigated for disenrollment because she has not been able to timely process requirements. At this time, she has not completed the appointments at the flight medicine is She has been unsuccessful in contacting the coordinator of the flight medicine group for IFC medical. She started in January, but there have been only two communications with flight medicine, and in May, the Flight Med clinic officer told the detachment that due to a severe manning problem over 6 months to process her IFC. The Det did not share this to my daughter until she received the notice. Also, daughter found out from other staff in the flight med clinic, that there is no one handling the IFC and the program is falling apart. All this time it is my daughter calling and emailing the flight medicine clinic, det cadre is not involved and does not follow up with the clinic or provided any alternative or option. It was my daughter who was able to find another base clinic to process her IFC, but it is going to be tight to complete it by year end. She is worried that even with her efforts finding another option this investigation is derailing her efforts and also impacting her schoolwork especially it is final 3 weeks. Any ideas or suggestions? Please share.

It's June 2nd - Final 3 weeks of what?
Is this AFROTC? (you said detachment, which leads me to believe it is).

To be direct, suggestions are simple:
1. Immediately, fix the issue - she found another base clinic to process the IFC - schedule and tackle this battery of flight physical tests, asap.
2. Communicate with your cadre and any investigative group that you have taken these steps to resolve this disconnect by ____ date.
3. Document - in excruciating detail every effort you have made to resolve this, escalate for support, and then fix the issue. You may need that for any investigation.
4. If time to complete the IFC is cutting into remaining time for something, then discuss that with your teachers/ advisor and if needed request an extension. Honestly what is going on such that they don't have 2 days in the remaining time to complete this physical - priorities.
5. Buckle in and pull yourself out of this. Deliver a result, not an excuse.
6. Reflect /learn on what you can do differently moving forward. More proactive communication, escalation, overcoming the obstacle. If this needed to get "done", then reaching out twice over a few months and not getting it completed is too passive.

If this is the AF, they cut people without pause who haven't made egregious mistakes. You have to know that - so look life happens but dig out of this as best you can- quickly.

I hear a lot of "why I didn't" excuse verbiage in the situation explanation: It didn't get done is the bottom line, and needed to get done. You found a solution - take it, and see if you can avoid being disenrolled.

Good luck.

 

[HighPole]

Thanks for the information. Det CC/Region has recommended disenrollment. She will be able to get physicals cleared on track to finish in time but I think they will not commission her since they claim it is not about completing physicals but responsibility. If the HQ is takes a long time what happens to her in the meantime? She is a contracted cadet. Are they going to call her to EAD as enlisted or ask to pay even though there is no decision yet?

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Thanks for the information. Det CC/Region has recommended disenrollment. She will be able to get physicals cleared on track to finish in time but I think they will not commission her since they claim it is not about completing physicals but responsibility. If the HQ is takes a long time what happens to her in the meantime? She is a contracted cadet. Are they going to call her to EAD as enlisted or ask to pay even though there is no decision yet?

Yes, active on or after day 1 of your AS200 (sophomore) year and you disenroll from AFROTC and are contracted, you are potentially obligated to repay scholarship monies or serve on active duty as an enlisted person. The specific outcome depends on your individual circumstances and the terms of your contract.


Recoupment of Scholarship Monies:

• If you are disenrolled after your freshman year, you may be required to repay all or a portion of the scholarship money received.
  
  
• The Air Force may pursue recoupment through various means, including a debt claim or by requiring you to serve on active duty.

Factors Affecting the Outcome:

• Review your contract carefully to understand your obligations upon disenrollment.
  
  
• The cause of your disenrollment (e.g., academic failure, misconduct) can influence the outcome.
  
  
• The Air Force has discretion in determining whether to pursue recoupment or require active duty service.

Recommendations:
Seek clarification from your AFROTC detachment commander or relevant personnel about your specific obligations.

Carefully review your contract and any related documents to understand your rights and responsibilities.

If you disagree with the Air Force's decision, you may wish to seek legal advice from a military attorney.

Were this one of my kids, I would recommend additionally - see it through. get the obligation/ battery of tests tackled, acknowledge responsibility and clearly communicate the steps you are taking and your desire to remain an officer. It sounds like she is at-risk for continuing to be an officer, but in such a big stakes issue - don't quit - see it through/ do what you can to remedy the disconnect here. You said "I think" - right, but find out by doing what you can to salvage this. Good luck.

 

[HighPole]

Thank you! I have few more questions.

Yes, even though the Det Commander/Region submitted the disenrollment package to HQ AFROTC for final decision, she is actively completing the remaining physicals and the flight clinic committed to help her complete within the FY. However, she was told the disenrollment recommendation was not about completing the medical but about job responsibility since she did not do it in a timely manner. She is not a stellar cadet and not low par. She has overall high AFQT scores however, she did have several counselling(various reasons for academics/admi nothing serious like civil), 2 academic CE (for her term gpa scholarship) and 2 CE (one is this one which triggered the investigation) throughout her 5 years. The extenuating circumstances was not considered, that while she may have done, the system in original clinic was already broken and was beyond her control despite her efforts and working on the limited information to provided by her cadre and following their direction.

Can detachment stop her from completing her IFC medical even she is not officially disenrolled? If they can't and she did complete her IFC while the final decision has not been made by HQ, what happens to her? She graduates in college in 3 weeks, so this IFC is the only one remaining.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Thank you! I have few more questions.

Yes, even though the Det Commander/Region submitted the disenrollment package to HQ AFROTC for final decision, she is actively completing the remaining physicals and the flight clinic committed to help her complete within the FY. However, his military advisor stated that the disenrollment recommendation was not about completing the medical but about job responsibility since she did not do it in a timely manner. She is not a stellar cadet and not low par. She has overall high AFQT scores however, she did have 6 counselling(various reasons for academics/admi nothing serious like civil), 2 academic CE (for her term gpa scholarship) and 2 CE (one is this one which triggered the investigation) throughout her 5 years. They did not consider the extenuating circumstances that while she may have done, the system in original clinic was already broken and was beyond her control despite her efforts and working on the limited information to provided by her cadre and following their direction.

Can detachment stop her from completing her IFC medical even she is not officially disenrolled? If they can't and she did complete her IFC while the final decision has not been made by HQ, what happens to her? She graduates in college in 3 weeks, so this IFC is the only one remaining.

I understand that the disenrollment issue goes beyond just the IFC exam—it also significantly involves timing and her job responsibilities. I recommend your daughter finalize the scheduling of the IFC medical battery of tests. Once she has done so, she should clearly communicate this to her chain of command, along with a sincere statement that she still wishes to commission and serve as an officer. Could they respond by preventing her from completing the IFC? Yes, that’s possible. If they do, it would be a very telling decision—and likely not a positive sign.
Let me share a quick analogy: Over 35 years ago, I was watching The Great Outdoors in a theater with my first serious girlfriend. I was laughing throughout, as we usually did during movies. But for this movie, which had some funny scenes, she didn’t laugh once. My awareness of her silence was deafening—it was clear something had changed. I realized then that trouble was ahead in our relationship. My point is this: if your daughter is told not to complete the IFC, take that as a serious warning sign that her path to commissioning may be in jeopardy. *That said, I could also imagine a scenario where she’s allowed to complete the IFC while a disenrollment decision is still pending. Even if she successfully completes the IFC, that doesn’t guarantee a favorable outcome. These could be separate issues—success with the IFC does not necessarily mean success in overturning or avoiding disenrollment.

As for potential outcomes, they have several options:

• They could require her to repay the scholarship (recoupment), which might cover up to five years of schooling.
• They might offer her an enlistment path instead of commissioning.
• They could decide to allow her to commission or they could proceed with disenrollment regardless
  At this point, all options seem to be on the table, and without more information, it’s hard to predict the likely outcome. I certainly have zero qualifications to predict what they'll want to do here.

I know this must be an incredibly stressful situation. I truly wish you and your family the best as you navigate it. Please keep us posted and share if you have any additional specific questions that perhaps others here or I can help answer.

 

[HighPole]

I just read in the AFROTC Section 8.5 regs that the scheduling of IFC specificaly for my daughter's rated position is the detachment's responsibililty. This was not case for my daughter. The cadre just gave her the point of contact (poc) of the base flight medicine to make the appointment and when she could not, the cadre just directed her to continue contacting the poc and did not even give her suggestions or advice. She was a headless chicken calling around base hospitals and they keep telling her to reach out to her detachment for assistance with scheduling appointments.

 

[justdoit19]

I’m sorry, I’m sure this is over the top hard for you as her parent who wants the best for her. No advice, only to breathe, and recognize that everything happens for a reason. In the thick of it, it’s hard to see beyond the ‘stuff’. But someday, I suspect you all will see more clearly.

In a year, or 5, this will only be a story of how she ended up wherever she ends up. A small little blip on her radar of life. I say this all the time, but it so true. Life throws us curveballs, maybe we resist or maybe we don’t, but we pivot. And move forward on a new adventure loaded up with the tools we acquired for having gone through our latest challenge. Nothing is for naught and we learn from everything. I suspect your DD will be able to relate differently and with empathy to others in ways she couldn’t have if not for going through this.

Hang in there. She will be ok no matter where she ends up. She may not know that yet, but she will.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

I just read in the AFROTC Section 8.5 regs that the scheduling of IFC specificaly for my daughter's rated position is the detachment's responsibililty. This was not case for my daughter. The cadre just gave her the point of contact (poc) of the base flight medicine to make the appointment and when she could not, the cadre just directed her to continue contacting the poc and did not even give her suggestions or advice. She was a headless chicken calling around base hospitals and they keep telling her to reach out to her detachment for assistance with scheduling appointments.

If the detachment delegated to her to complete this, then fyi I see no benefit to her in pushing back that ultimately per REGs it was their responsibility. I think a lesson here, something I coach employees on, is to simply be a lot more uncomfortable with unresolved/ unsettled responsibilities and to when feeling that way to take decisive action - better to annoy your chain of command by action than inaction. Clearly they are not happy this didn't get scheduled - did she escalate, change course? Maybe there's something from this experience she can learn from, like all of us have and continue to do as we take more journeys around the sun.

I also coach employees to escalate early and be transparent with disconnects/ risk - no leader likes getting duck-duck-duck-duck-goose updates when issues go from green statuses/ ok four weeks in a row, to whiplash change to red/ missed/impact issues.

She is facing pretty serious consequence for this disconnect - best of luck that this all works out.

 

[HighPole]

I’m sorry, I’m sure this is over the top hard for you as her parent who wants the best for her. No advice, only to breathe, and recognize that everything happens for a reason. In the thick of it, it’s hard to see beyond the ‘stuff’. But someday, I suspect you all will see more clearly.

In a year, or 5, this will only be a story of how she ended up wherever she ends up. A small little blip on her radar of life. I say this all the time, but it so true. Life throws us curveballs, maybe we resist or maybe we don’t, but we pivot. And move forward on a new adventure loaded up with the tools we acquired for having gone through our latest challenge. Nothing is for naught and we learn from everything. I suspect your DD will be able to relate differently and with empathy to others in ways she couldn’t have if not for going through this.

Hang in there. She will be ok no matter where she ends up. She may not know that yet, but she will.

Thanks! It is quite stressful but personally, I really don't want her in the military. She has very promising and lucrative career as an Engineer. I know because I work in HR and across the country engineers are very hard to recruit. Just in my company entry-level no experience gets in with $65k-$70k but my daughter is not interested and even willing to go enlisted as route to officer.

 

[HighPole]

If the detachment delegated to her to complete this, then fyi I see no benefit to her in pushing back that ultimately per REGs it was their responsibility. I think a lesson here, something I coach employees on, is to simply be a lot more uncomfortable with unresolved/ unsettled responsibilities and to when feeling that way to take decisive action - better to annoy your chain of command by action than inaction. Clearly they are not happy this didn't get scheduled - did she escalate, change course? Maybe there's something from this experience she can learn from, like all of us have and continue to do as we take more journeys around the sun.

I also coach employees to escalate early and be transparent with disconnects/ risk - no leader likes getting duck-duck-duck-duck-goose updates when issues go from green statuses/ ok four weeks in a row, to whiplash change to red/ missed/impact issues.

She is facing pretty serious consequence for this disconnect - best of luck that this all works out.

Thanks! Yes, she may not have been as annoying or persistent, even if she kept spamming the poc with thousands of emails or voicemails it will only go to a non-working mailbox since the IFC processing was already falling apart in March, and no one was assigned. And, if the det delegated the task, they should have provided her with the right tools, valid information, and continued to provide support on how to perform the task esp. if there are roadblocks that are beyond her control. She did not even know that she has the go to other base hospitals. Had she known that her efforts were futile and had been made aware that she could go to another base clinic, she could have focused her time and energy on looking for an alternate location early on.
To expect a cadet juggling school to wholly handle the appointments, making phone calls on general lines where no one answers or non-working emails and the det just be updated is hard to comprehend. We were with her when she was going through the list of all Air Force Bases with flight medicine online and calling every listed number, mostly unsuccessfully, getting someone to help. We even helped her look for numbers because it was too overwhelming. Most of the people she spoke to were confused since it was highly unusual for a cadet to coordinate their medical and not the det coordinating with their flight medicine. After calling about numerous AFB including Wright (who also told her she cant just make appointments without Det approval) Navy, and Air National Guard, she chance upon an AFB base and the coordinator took pity on her and gave her a non-public number that will go directly to the coordinator of another base clinic that is about 8 hours away from us. Because of this, she got appointments and they were committed to completing it before commissioning (even if the det will not commission her as they said). My daughter wants to show her det that she is worthy to become an officer, and even with roadblocks, she will find ways to overcome them. She is so determined that while she may have missed early opportunities, which was acknowledged as a conscious decision to ensure her academics is addressed, she can turn things around and resolve the issues even without any help.

 

[justdoit19]

Thanks! Yes, she may not have been as annoying or persistent, but even if she kept spamming the poc with thousands of emails or voicemails it will only go to a non-working mailbox since the IFC processing was already falling apart in March, and no one was assigned. And, if the det delegated the task, they should have to make sure that the task will be accomplished with the right tools, valid information, and continue to provide support on how to perform the task esp. if there are roadblocks that are beyond her control. The det did not even tell her that she could go to other base hospitals. Had she known that her efforts were futile and had been made aware that she could go to another base clinic, she could have focused her time and energy on looking for an alternate location early on.
To expect a cadet juggling school to wholly handle the appointments, making phone calls on general lines where no one answers or non-working emails and the det just asking to be updated is hard to comprehend. We were with her when she was going through the list of all Air Force Bases with flight medicine online and calling every listed number, mostly unsuccessfully getting someone to help. We even helped her look for numbers because it was too overwhelming. Most of the people she spoke with were confused why she was calling for an appointment and not the det coordinating with their flight medicine. After calling about numerous AFB including Wright (who also told her she cant just make appointments without Det approval) Navy, and Air National Guard, she chance upon an AFB base and the coordinator took pity on her and gave her a non-public number that will go directly to the coordinator of another base clinic that is about 8 hours away from us. Because of this, she was able to get appointments and they were committed to complete it before commissioning (even if the det will not commission her as they said). My daughter wants to show to her det that she is worthy to become an officer, and even with roadblocks she will find ways to overcome it.

Is this unique to her experience? How are others getting this taken care of? I’m not familiar at all with how it works. Just curious.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Thanks! Yes, she may not have been as annoying or persistent, but even if she kept spamming the poc with thousands of emails or voicemails it will only go to a non-working mailbox since the IFC processing was already falling apart in March, and no one was assigned. And, if the det delegated the task, they should have to make sure that the task will be accomplished with the right tools, valid information, and continue to provide support on how to perform the task esp. if there are roadblocks that are beyond her control. The det did not even tell her that she could go to other base hospitals. Had she known that her efforts were futile and had been made aware that she could go to another base clinic, she could have focused her time and energy on looking for an alternate location early on.
To expect a cadet juggling school to wholly handle the appointments, making phone calls on general lines where no one answers or non-working emails and the det just asking to be updated is hard to comprehend. We were with her when she was going through the list of all Air Force Bases with flight medicine online and calling every listed number, mostly unsuccessfully getting someone to help. We even helped her look for numbers because it was too overwhelming. Most of the people she spoke with were confused why she was calling for an appointment and not the det coordinating with their flight medicine. After calling about numerous AFB including Wright (who also told her she cant just make appointments without Det approval) Navy, and Air National Guard, she chance upon an AFB base and the coordinator took pity on her and gave her a non-public number that will go directly to the coordinator of another base clinic that is about 8 hours away from us. Because of this, she was able to get appointments and they were committed to complete it before commissioning (even if the det will not commission her as they said). My daughter wants to show to her det that she is worthy to become an officer, and even with roadblocks she will find ways to overcome it.

Love the energy and focus on taking steps to show the Air Force and key decision makers she very much wants to serve as an AF officer. Love the taking of steps to demonstrate she can overcome this obstacle and get this scheduled. Good for her.

there may be approx. 400-450 AFROTC cadets (very rough guesstimate) who needed to schedule this exam as part of the gateway to qualify to serve as an AF Student Pilot. How many of those failed to get this battery of tests scheduled? Probably whatever percent that is, is up for disenrollment. Did she network with others in her det. in her class who needed to get this test scheduled, other detachment/school cadets, online forums like this, etc? I'll say this - there are bars/standards that pilots must be above all through training and as an officer. Fitness, vision, academic performance, physicals, flight performance. some pilots need to be spun around in a centrifuge and not pass out, or a need to survive a "helo dunker" and don't even get me started on SERE - performance measured in check rides, tests, cross country flights, etc. - often. getting into a habit of tackling whatever is front of you serves these young people well. I hope she is able to pass this battery of tests and move forward with an AF officer career - Good luck.

 

[HighPole]

Is this unique to her experience? How are others getting this taken care of? I’m not familiar at all with how it works. Just curious

Love the energy and focus on taking steps to show the Air Force and key decision makers she very much wants to serve as an AF officer. Love the taking of steps to demonstrate she can overcome this obstacle and get this scheduled. Good for her.

there may be approx. 400-450 AFROTC cadets (very rough guesstimate) who needed to schedule this exam as part of the gateway to qualify to serve as an AF Student Pilot. How many of those failed to get this battery of tests scheduled? Probably whatever percent that is, is up for disenrollment. Did she network with others in her det. in her class who needed to get this test scheduled, other detachment/school cadets, online forums like this, etc? I'll say this - there are bars/standards that pilots must be above all through trianing and as an officer. Fitness, vision, academic performance, physicals, flight performance. some pilots need to be spun around in a centrifuge and not pass out, or a need to survive a "helo dunker" and don't even get me started on SERE - performance measured in checkrides, tests, cross country flights, etc. - often. getting into a habit of tackling whatever is front of you serves these young people well. I hope she is able to pass this battery of tests and move forward with an AF officer career - Good luck.

Thanks Herman! She is not rated for pilot just for the ABM position so the test is fairly okay for her. So far so good. One last thing to hurdle is the main physical exam already scheduled. So far, no waiver issues except for previous one which was already waived by DODMERB so they just needed the same paperwork and they said it not a disqualifier but just in case they want to prepare ahead. Regardless of the outcome, My daughter is very grateful to the flight medicine staff for providing excellent customer service and support! And, I cannot thank them enough for doing an exemplary job in helping my daughter navigate through this process.