retiredradar
Mom of USNA '24 Mid
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Here's a question back to the original post: Where's your math? Have you taken all of them? I'm also assuming you took AP Chem already.
Do I academically fit
- Thread starter hopefull2022
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The most important one is missing, I think:
4. Do I consider my competition to be the pool of people who applied for nominations from the same nomination sources to whom I applied?
Without a nomination, your chances are zero for USMA, USNA, and USAFA.
Justin HELPmomStocksPosts
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I have been looking into this for sometime now and was wondering if you could explain the reasoning behind gender/ minority quotas. What I get from this is that simply because I was born a white male, my chances of getting into the academy are less than that a minority female. Am I missing something?Beyond the physical number of seats on the bus being 1/3 that of USNA, this is my opinion based on watching years of admissions cycles and my personal exploration of the public data. When you break down the math for how USCGA uses its limited slots, the percentage chance of acceptance is quite small. I love the conversation and the data and would invite anyone to present a compelling counter argument. When you consider the number of slots used for their prep program (20% vs USNA 17%), their gender composition goals (40% vs USNA 30%), and their diversity goals (35+%) - the math for first-time applicants is very small.
For discussion sake, if I am a white male who applies to both USNA and USCGA as a HS Senior (first time applicant) - basing the following on appointments offered vs class size to present the minimum requirement of just receiving an appointment.
USNA USCGA Appointments Offered 1426 368 Prep School seats 244 77 Appointments Left 1182 291 Historic Minority Appointments 473 (40%) 102 (35%) Appointments Left 709 189 Gender Split (71%) (60%) Appointments Left 503 113 TOTAL OFFERS 1426 368 Slots for this demographic 503 113 % makeup for this applicant 35% 31%
The true USNA acceptance rate is not 8%. The published figures factor in literally anyone who opened an account within their portal. It does not represent completed applications nor does it represent those who truly met minimum requirements. This is not unique to USNA - every college will report numbers in this manner because it sounds more prestigious.
Let's break it down by using USNA's current published stats for the most recent class:
Applications Opened 15699 Appointments Offered 1426 TOP LINE ACCEPTANCE RATE 9%
Class Portrait
Class Portrait page for Admissions at USNA.edu. Updated Sun Apr 21 04:34:10 EDT 2024.www.usna.edu
However, if you dig deeper, the number of completed applications is lower and the number of people the school considers "qualified" is way way lower.
I do not see the figures publicly posted for USNA, so let's dive into USAFA who does post it all in black and white (Class of 2024):
USAFA c/o 24 USMA c/o 24 USCGA typical Applications Opened 10669 15901 Appointments Offered 1416 Admitted 1232 TOP LINE ACCEPTANCE RATE 13% 8% Candidate Pool (completed applications) 9197 1853 Appointments Offered 1416 368 POOL ACCEPTANCE RATE 15% 20% Qualified Candidate Pool 2588 2065 Appointments Offered 1416 1232 BOTTOM LINE ACCEPTANCE RATE 55% 60%
https://www.usafa.edu/app/uploads/Class-of-2024-Info-Sheet.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/usma-media/inline-images/about/g5/Class_2024_Profile_v2.pdf
At the end of the day, the number you have in your brain for the acceptance rate of a Service Academy will be a derivative of the candidate pool you consider your competition.
1) Do I consider my competition to be anyone who opened an application? If so - 9%
2) Do I consider my competition to be anyone who actually completed the full application? If so - likely 15%
3) Do I consider my competition to be the pool of people who actually were considered qualified for the school? If so - likely 55%
Small Team Bacsi
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Others can address why the US military might want diversity among its ranks.
I doubt it will be a minority woman you have to worry about.
People seem to be correcting you often on your unreadable posts. Bad grammar and poor spelling.
And you are being corrected more than once.
You are addressing senior officers and you were not proof reading before hitting send.
Based on your own comments you submitted an AIM essay full of bad grammar and poor spelling without checking the essay before submitting it.
Then based on your comments you will need wavers for color blindness and dyslexia.
Don't worry about others, control what you can control.
I doubt it will be a minority woman you have to worry about.
People seem to be correcting you often on your unreadable posts. Bad grammar and poor spelling.
And you are being corrected more than once.
You are addressing senior officers and you were not proof reading before hitting send.
Based on your own comments you submitted an AIM essay full of bad grammar and poor spelling without checking the essay before submitting it.
Then based on your comments you will need wavers for color blindness and dyslexia.
Don't worry about others, control what you can control.
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Young man. You don’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. You can only imagine what it might be like … control what you can control.
There are kids out there who are excluded from “Participating” for all kinds of reasons.
Consider all those young kids who overcome incredible physical impairments and deformities — you know them as the disabled — and they do things that would amaze you … even kick your a$$. Unfortunately, the Military and SAs don’t take them. Pity is not in their vocabulary. If there is a Rock that they cannot move, they go around it.
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Uh, that minority female might very well run circles around you academically, athletically and as a leader. She might very well put you to shame in the classroom, on the confidence course, in a billet. Beware the hubris, lest it bite you in the behind.
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Heatherg21
USNA '24 Mom BGO Bacon Lover Dog Lover
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100%. ^^^^^^ Our DS recently, along with some other pals took an Uber from the mainland Naval base to Coronado for some beach time. I saw pictures of some really good-looking, fit men and women MIDN. He said one scared the heck out of him. I asked why???? He said, "mom, we took an Uber here, SHE RAN".
And the entire fleet is made up of incredibly diverse individuals. Those that lead them should be talented and qualified, and also represent their diversity. I say that as the mom of a 3/C who doesn't check any 'boxes' in terms of diversity. And he's a he.
I would put your effort into improvement in all categories, control what you can and focus on a high-quality application.
Justin HELPmomStocksPosts
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No offense but I don’t think you understood my question in the slightest. Anyone could be better than me. My question is “is simply being a white male going to put me at a disadvantage.” The way you worded your reply made it seem as though I am discriminating.
I have no doubt that their are minority females with better stats than me. I never questioned it in the slightest. I don’t think you read my question completely.
Justin HELPmomStocksPosts
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Ok after reading all these comments I regret even posting my previous message. I mean no disrespect and don’t really understand why I’m getting “shamed” for asking this sort of question and I’m sorry if you found it offensive. I really just wanted to know how my gender/race would effect me and truly nothing more and nothing less.
Heatherg21
USNA '24 Mom BGO Bacon Lover Dog Lover
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You don't need to regret your question at all. This is a good example of how written words don't always convey the author's intent. I wasn't offended.
I honestly don't think anyone here, or anywhere else can answer how your gender/race would affect you and your admission chances.
I honestly don't think anyone here, or anywhere else can answer how your gender/race would affect you and your admission chances.
The best advice I can give is to put your best package forward. Do your best not to wonder what other people are putting forward - focus on yourself and what you can control. As is often said here, the only way you can know if you'll get in is if you try. I get the direction you were aiming for with your previous question, but again: put it out of your mind. This is about you and what you bring to the table.
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Bottom line - focus on what you control and like others have said - make the best application package you can. You do not control the competition pool, you do not control the branch diversity initiatives, and you do not control the number of total seats available in the admissions cycle.
To answer your question, each branch has their own diversity initiatives that drive their recruiting quotas/goals. In general, these initiatives attempt to match the percentage composition for the branch to ensure the officer corps reflects the makeup of the total force.
The answer to whether your demographic composition helps or hurts you mostly depends on the lens you are looking through. Percentage wise, the white male will receive a larger percentage of the class than any other demographic. This is not mandated, but is a historical norm.
To demonstrate what I mean, let's look closer at the applicant pool. The West Point class profile did break out some detail for the applicant pool composition for class of 2024.
| Male | Female | |
| Opened an Application | 11070 | 4871 |
| Actually Entered the Class | 948 (8.6%) | 284 (5.8%) |
| Considered Qualified | 1587 | 482 |
| Actually Entered the Class | 948 (59.7%) | 284 (58.9%) |
| Minority (37%) | 351 (28.5% of total class) | 105 (8.5% of total class) |
| non-Minority (63%) - derived | 597 (48.4% of total class) | 179 (14.5% of total class) |
While helpful, we do not know the ethnic composition of the applicant pool - only the makeup of who actually showed up on Day 1. This nuance is important to better understand the overall landscape and how that impacts a particular demographic and your perceived overall chances of receiving an offer of appointment. You could really spin out on this and it changes nothing. It may help someone align realistic chances of landing a seat in a class, but we then circle back to making the best package you can.
I also understand this is an uncomfortable topic that hits on ethnicity, gender, fairness, qualification, etc... Topics that people have conscious and unconscious bias against based on your background and own demographic composition. At the end of the day, I think the schools do a good job in building the class to meet their branch goals and objectives. It is not an easy task and there will be "winners" and "losers."
Small Team Bacsi
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In fact as a white male your chances may have been slightly better if the SAs had not started admitting minorities or females.
Your chances would also be better if the SAs did not want highly recruited students who played sports at a high level. And many of these recruits will not have your GPA or SAT scores
and as a civilian white male your chances would also be better if the SAs did not want prior enlisted as students.
Most of the priors will not have your GPA or SAT scores.
You need to make sure when you submit an application you proof read it before hitting send. That is something you have control over.
Your chances would also be better if the SAs did not want highly recruited students who played sports at a high level. And many of these recruits will not have your GPA or SAT scores
and as a civilian white male your chances would also be better if the SAs did not want prior enlisted as students.
Most of the priors will not have your GPA or SAT scores.
You need to make sure when you submit an application you proof read it before hitting send. That is something you have control over.
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I don’t think people are shaming you. They are pointing out facts associated with your inquiry.
Your actual question, as restated ‘how does being a white make affect my application/chances’, simply cannot be answered. No one knows. It’s not a measurable, quantitative outcome. There is so much MORE to the admissions process that’s often intangible, which affects an appointment: noms’s, local competition, medical, interviews, etc.
There is not objective, known way to answer you question. So people are pointing out ways for YOU to be the best YOU that you can be. And that’s all ANYONE can do, no matter their gender/race.
Yes, admissions wants a diverse, well rounded class to represent and lead our divers, well rounded fleet coming from our diverse, well rounded America. No one knows how that specifically affects your application, as that is only one piece of a very complicated and extensive admissions process. You could ask “how does my lack of a varsity sport affect my application” and get the exact same answer. No one knows. Bc there simply isn’t one, single answer. It depends And idk. Are the proper responses.
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If you only look at the breakdown of the people who applied it may look like white males are being squeezed out, but if you look at it from the other direction and consider the larger populations of who could have applied you'll see that white males are doing most of the applying. There are a lot of possible reasons that other groups are not making a run at an academy, and some of those reasons also affect the broader college attendance rates as well, but if any of it comes down to something as addressable as not feeling welcome in the bro culture then you need to take a look at that.
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Yeah, my university is located in an overwhelmingly African American city and we have well designed programs to help get local minority students up to the proper academic level but they just don't apply in substantial numbers. I've been teaching here for 5 yrs/10 Semesters and had probably about 15 sections so well over 300 students now. Of that 300, I think that I've had fewer than 8 Black Males and of that number just 2 were actual African Americans and the rest were actually from Africa. In that time, I've also had between 5 and 10 African American Females and I don't reall any African Women. I've certainly had a variety of hispanic students - at least 4 or 5 per class and then quite a few Indian and Asian Americans as well as foreign students from both places.
My point is that if we can't get substantial underrepresented minority students in an area where they are the MAJORITY even when there are lots of outreach programs then I don't know how to increase minority participation short of drafting them into our student body.
chicagotousna '26
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according to the numbers, it doesnt look like USNA squeezing white males. The acceptance rate for women is the same percentage as men, so even though there are less minority women applying, USNA doesnt take, proportionally, more of a specific demographic. If we are talking about ivies and big state schools, then yes, they do have higher acceptance rates for certain demographics
hopefull2022
usafa/uscga 26' applicant
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Here is a list of the stem courses I’ve taken
Ap physics
Ap comp sci (4)
Ap gov (4)
Ap enviro
Ap Econ
next year
Ap calc
Ap physics 2
Chs stats
I have not taken Ap chem. I’ve been told it’s a good course to avoid at my school. But have taken lab chem and lab bio.
also I got a 770 on math section of sat. 99th percentile
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General Advice for Grades 9-12
General Advice for Grades 9-12 page for Admissions at USNA.edu. Updated Fri Apr 12 05:31:35 EDT 2024.
www.usna.edu
USNA provides a roadmap, including a recommendation to take AP, IB or Honors where offered. USNA will also see a profile of what your school offers, including the AP Chem. Generally speaking, they like to see applicants take the hardest courses available. Your competition will be taking AP Chem where it is offered. Think through who’s telling you AP Chem is a course to avoid. Is it an official source? Is it hallway conversation? Is there some concern it’s a course that could drop your GPA? Keep in mind USNA looks at the whole person, and it’s not all about one particular stat.
At USNA, Chem and Calc are known as plebe-killers. Why would you not want to take advantage of having the most rigorous preparation?
Ultimately, it’s up to you, but do talk it through with your guidance counselor. You can also jump on the live chat on the USNA Admissions page and ask the primary source.
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It’s also competitive on a national basis for categories of noms. Only 100 appointments can be charged to the Presidential nom authority, but several hundred applicants may be eligible for that nom, with their state/district a non-factor. All applicants can compete for the VP nom. Only so many appointments are reserved for those coming from the enlisted ranks.
This link provides a good description of how appointments are spread across nom categories.