do we have to become AOG members?

[Stealth_81]

We bought our son the AOG life membership for Christmas his Doolie year. It was $600 then and it was worth every penny. (We also got the $240 parent's 4-year membership).

Son had the AOG magazine "Checkpoints" sent home rather than mailed to his Academy address since he felt he wouldn't have time to read it. I loved getting that magazine and reading about all what everyone in the classes ahead of our son's were doing. It gave me a great insight into what was in store for the future. I also got to read about the happenings of my Uncle's class ('63). There was also news in there about our son's sponsor dad. Since our son now has his AOG magazine sent to him at Laughlin AFB, we joined the Association as parents just to get the magazine ourselves.

The AOG did a lot for our son when he was at USAFA, too. The Powerlifting team there is a club sport, and as such doesn't get the funding like the NCAA teams do. The AOG always paid for the teams airfare and lodging for away meets. They also supported a couple of other organizations that benefitted my son.

Finally, as someone already mentioned, I am sure we saved many hundreds of dollars at the gift shop in the last 5 years with our AOG discount.

My recommendation is to get the membership.

Stealth_81

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

Folks, if money is tight, IMO this should be a fairly low priority. I am a grad, AF retired, lifetime member and father of 2016 appointee. AOG is geared towards graduates and giving back to the Academy. It has class news (only for those classes that have graduated) and many other good articles for grads. I do not believe I would have spent much time looking at the magazine or doing AOG events while I was a cadet. However, a lifetime membership does gives you access to Webguy. Yearly membership does not. My son will enter with the class of 2016 and we did not get him a membership. We will, probably give him a membership as a graduation gift. I do not believe that the price will be substantially different 4 years from now. If money is tight, DO NOT stress over this, pay $20/month for webguy (and magazine) for the summer and maybe help your son out with a membership when he graduates. Just a different opinion.

I talked with Don at the AOG. He said that Webguy is not included with the lifetime membership. I asked it a couple different ways because I got mixed messages on the forum. If I am mistaken, I'd love to know. My DS bought the lifetime membership and I would rather not pay for something that I already paid for.

 

[Dad]

I talked with Don at the AOG. He said that Webguy is not included with the lifetime membership. I asked it a couple different ways because I got mixed messages on the forum. If I am mistaken, I'd love to know. My DS bought the lifetime membership and I would rather not pay for something that I already paid for.

Don knows best. We bought the lifetime membership last year and WebGuy was NOT included. Still a good investment due to all the things AOG does for the cadets.

 

[raimius]

Some clubs and teams are supported fairly well by the AOG.
Webguy is a great resource for families, that's for sure.









In matters of personal opinion, my thoughts and the AOG's spending priorities don't always line up very well. They also made a sales pitch to my class at a terribly inopportune time and method, so I think a lot of my class are rather skeptical about them, at times.

 

[Nevada4]

I talked with Don at the AOG. He said that Webguy is not included with the lifetime membership. I asked it a couple different ways because I got mixed messages on the forum. If I am mistaken, I'd love to know. My DS bought the lifetime membership and I would rather not pay for something that I already paid for.

About three weeks ago I upgraded my yearly membership to a lifetime mainly because I was told me it included Webguy. Since I've been a member for 25 years, I figured I might as well. We now have access. I don't have a lot more details and am surprised with what the AOG is saying--PM me if desired and I'll pass on what little more I have.

To those implying that if you don't sign your kid up for the Association of Graduates on day 1 you are being cheap or ungrateful, I simply disagree. I have been a member since day 1 of graduation and support AOG. Encouraging 17 & 18 year olds is something I don't remember from my days. There are many priorities above this to spend your money like flying your family out for Parent's weekend, A day visit, plane tickets home for Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. I do highly encourage AOG membership upon graduation.

 

[Dad]

To those implying that if you don't sign your kid up for the Association of Graduates on day 1 you are being cheap or ungrateful, I simply disagree. I have been a member since day 1 of graduation and support AOG. Encouraging 17 & 18 year olds is something I don't remember from my days. There are many priorities above this to spend your money like flying your family out for Parent's weekend, A day visit, plane tickets home for Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. I do highly encourage AOG membership upon graduation.

 

[Christcorp]

Agreed. But most cadets aren't the ones using their money from the academy to fly their parents out or other plane tickets. Parents usually are the ones paying for this.

I don't want anyone to think that I personally implied that anyone was being cheap or ungrateful. I was simply pointing out a logical and financial "Fact". What would parents be doing or spending if their kid didn't get into the academy? What if they were at the Universityofwhereverthehell? Somehow, they would have worked out plane fares for visits; christmas; coming home for the summer; etc... There isn't one other educational opportunity other than "Not Attending" college that is as "Inexpensive" at an academy appointment. At the academy, you can take the kid off of your health insurance. You don't even need them on your car insurance policy for the first 2 years. (They can drive on vacation, and can't have their own car for the first 2 years). You don't have the food, clothes, gas, books, etc... like at another college or even living at home and going to the local college.

As I mentioned previously: "Is the AOG worth it and should you spend the money"? That is a totally separate issue. My comment was strictly about money being tight. I guess if a person's son/daughter didn't receive an appointment, then they wouldn't be going to ANY college; because all other college scenarios cost more than a military academy. Even the 100% full ride doesn't usually include spending money; tickets home; or the $900 a month that the academy pays their cadets. Not calling anyone cheap or ungrateful. Just wondering what they would have done if their son/daughter hadn't received an appointment.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

CC. As you know the USAFA is caulk full of super smart kids that could get free (or near free) state college education. Then there are the families that can get subsidized expenses through FAFSA. Maybe they have a few kids in college or they possibly had some rough years especially if their income was derived from the housing industry. FAFSA can subsidize dollars which covers room and board, food, etc. In other words, if that state college costs $18K (food, room and board etc) you might receive $22K (between scholarships and FAFSA) to cover other living expenses. That of course will depend on the EFC (Expected Financial Contribution) and it has to be brutally low to get help. But completely free room and board plus tuition happens more often than people think.

I'll give you another example. Let's say someone’s DS or DD got into Harvard or Stanford. Their endowments are so massive and generous that even reasonable incomes could be slashed. For instance at Stanford, you pay around $12K / year if your adjusted gross income is $100K (Tuition is free, R&B is $12K). If your AGI is below, $60K, their $53K tuition bill drops to ZERO including R&B. See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/19/MNABV5LHM.DTL&ao=all .

Another difference when figuring out the cost of education is the ability to work part time jobs on campus as well as work summer jobs. In the USAFA, that doesn’t happen. Many colleges give students "fluff jobs" by allowing them to study and earn income. Others work off campus jobs like waiting tables. It doesn't take long to bridge $8K in room and board expenses.

I view the cost of education as a family expense. The biggest cost to the USAFA is travel. Parents and families don't visit their DD or DS at the University of Colorado three times during the summer like many do with the Air Force Academy. If you fly, budget $450 per ticket on sale x 3 times 2-4 people. Then add in peak room rates, rental cars, etc. When you add in flights back for our DS, it doesn't take long to hit $7K the 1st year (much less for the following years). Compare that to a 20 minute drive to the UofMN from our home.

... There isn't one other educational opportunity other than "Not Attending" college that is as "Inexpensive" at an academy appointment.

We disagree if you look at the TOTAL costs. My DS didn’t apply to local (perfect fit) scholarships because he knew he was going to go to an academy. Additional larger school scholarships were not given to him because many mandated he stayed in MN. Additionally, the schools knew his tuition was free so they gave the dollars to other students. Again, this will be a typical story for all USAFA students. Additionally, he could have worked as a science tutor at the college to earn money. So like many USAFA cadets, tuition and R&B was a tie (zero).

Another factor in figuring in the total cost of education is college in the school. MY DS had 2 years of full time college in 11th and 12th grade completed. Therefore at the UofMN, he has two years left. At the USAFA, he has 4 years left. Again this is common at the academies because many HS students needed to be challenged. I mention this because there are 2 years of college expenses that are avoided.

The reason he is attending the USAFA has NOTHING to do with the incredible value of the education. He is attending because he feels it is his duty to serve his country. He wants to make a difference while going to a radically different experience as compared to a traditional college. It was his 1st choice and like every USAFA cadet, he had plenty of inexpensive college options. None of which were as rewarding as attending the USAFA.

Please note that my goal wasn't to compare the quality of education nor the long term value. I wanted to point out that many USAFA students have "free" college options. And we didn't cover discussing D1 athlete options. Therefore I understand why some families on a budget stare at the $700 AOG figure and know that it is real money.

 

[kdc246]

I'll give you another example. Let's say someone’s DS or DD got into Harvard or Stanford. Their endowments are so massive and generous that even reasonable incomes could be slashed. For instance at Stanford, you pay around $12K / year if your adjusted gross income is $100K (Tuition is free, R&B is $12K). If your AGI is below, $60K, their $53K tuition bill drops to ZERO including R&B. See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/19/MNABV5LHM.DTL&ao=all .

I checked this out, out of curiosity, I am going slightly off topic. My DD was accepted to Stanford. We live in California and DH in 2010 made just over the $100 K mark with his AF retirement. This article is from 2008 and is misleading. DD was offered around $8K off of tuition. We would have had to come up with room and board and books plus the rest of tuition. I say this to make sure others don't think it is all cut and dry at Stanford about the financial aid situation. DD wanted nothing more than to attend, however after she realized by the time she graduated she would owe more than $200K she looked at other options. We had always encouraged her to apply to many schools, to leave all of her options open. She applied and was accepted to Johns Hopkins, Notre Dame, Alabama, Tulane, USAFA, Stanford, UC Davis(just the cost of books had she lived at home), and Cal Poly-SLO(the last two options would have been the lowest cost due to VA disability for my DH). She was a National Merit Scholar finalist and Valedictorian of her class. Her best offer was from Tulane and Alabama. Initially she was wait listed at USAFA (CFA) and did not receive her appointment until May 2nd (we had already moved on to plan B). Ultimately she chose USAFA on her own accord and for her own reasons. I am sure having two retired enlisted Air Force members for parents had some influence, but like I said we had already moved on to Tulane. She was given three days to decide if she wanted to accept the USAFA offer, and she did. It has not been the easiest road, though she has embraced it fully and now says she would not want to be any where else. She will commit this fall. Like I said, off topic but an eye opener none the less.

 

[Christcorp]

Mn-Dad; I agree that there are a lot of low cost college education opportunities available to students. Especially the caliber of students that would get accepted to the academies. I help numerous kids a year find this opportunities.

But I will stand by my comment that none of them are as financially beneficial as the academies. During the first year, the cadet doesn't get that much money, because they are paying back for their computer, clothing, and many other items. But in very little time, they are making $800-$900 per month at the academy. That's a pretty good chuck of money. $10,000+ per year.

I know of cadets who get exactly ZERO support from their family. (Family was totally against their attending a military academy). Even with paying back some of the initial expenses, even these cadets had no problem saving for a plane ticket, summer vacation, ski lift tickets, etc... After their debt is paid and they are making the full $800-$900 a month, they are doing quite well. Many civilian college opportunities have "Near zero" costs with the right scholarships and aid. But when you include the non-school related expenses to simply live; such as leisure time and luxuries, it is rare to find an educational opportunity that provides as much "Disposable Income" as the academy.

We haven't even gotten into the additional expenses that the PARENT can now eliminate. Health Insurance: You can remove your son/daughter from your policy. Most policies are based on the number of family members. The military is now taking care of your child. Car Insurance: Take them off. They can't possess a car for the first 2 years anyway. "They can still borrow yours when they come home. Most insurance companies let you loan your car to a licensed driver".

There are definitely a lot of good educational opportunities out there. Definitely plenty that don't require a student graduating with large student loans. (People with student loans bother me, but that's another topic). Yes, there are definitely some great opportunities. I still stand by my comment that there isn't another educational opportunity that provides a full ride education; free room/board; free medical and dental care; and PAYS YOU approximately $10,000 per year, to the extend that a military academy education does.

 

[Nav84]

AOG Lifetime Membership & Web Guy

I talked with Don at the AOG. He said that Webguy is not included with the lifetime membership. I asked it a couple different ways because I got mixed messages on the forum. If I am mistaken, I'd love to know. My DS bought the lifetime membership and I would rather not pay for something that I already paid for.

For what it is worth (my DD is Class of 2016 Appointee) ...

On May 24 I sent an email to the AOG that reads as follows:
Today I signed up for a USAFA AOG Class Club Membership for the Class of 2016. However, I now realize my own AOG Lifetime Membership appears to provide me the same access to the WebGuy website. Please cancel my USAFA AOG Class Club Membership for the Class of 2016 for $20.16 per month.

On May 25 the AOG responded with this email:
You signed-up for Class Club Membership but are records show that you are a Life Member. You will receive all the benefits that a class club member would. I refunded you $20.16 on your credit card today.

When I log in as a lifetime member I have access to Webguy. I am a USAFA '84 grad, if that makes a difference?

 

[Luigi59]

During the first year, the cadet doesn't get that much money, because they are paying back for their computer, clothing, and many other items. But in very little time, they are making $800-$900 per month at the academy. That's a pretty good chuck of money. $10,000+ per year.

After their debt is paid and they are making the full $800-$900 a month, they are doing quite well. .

-- Off Topic--

Just for clarification -

Cadet pay is set by law - a monthly rate equal to 35 percent of the basic pay of a commissioned officer in the pay grade O–1 with less than two years of service, ($989.40 in 2012).

4/c or 1/c it is the same gross pay. The net increases every year, but with taxes, SIGLI, etc - I doubt they ever see a monthly net close to $900, even after their computer and other deductions are paid for.​

-- Back to Topic --

 

[YorkieMom75]

We decided to give our son AOG membership as a gift, and we joined webguy. If we have to eat hotdogs and beans and give up other expenses to fly out for PW, football games, and fly DS home, then we will. I think we will save a lot of money without DS at home to eat all our groceries!! 17-year-old boys are a bottomless pit when it comes to food.

 

[Stealth_81]

The net increases every year, but with taxes, SIGLI, etc - I doubt they ever see a monthly net close to $900, even after their computer and other deductions are paid for.

Incorrect.

Just for grins, I pulled up the pay spreadsheet from son's Firstie year:

Gross Pay each month was $960.90

SLGI $27/mo
FITW $15/mo

Highest Net Pay was in January $983.61 (higher than regular Gross Pay due to BAS payout for Christmas Break)

Lowest Net Pay was in September $800.01 (Extra deductions of $100 for Athletic Fee and $70 for Allied Arts Fee)

Average Net Pay for the 11 months was $897.51

Stealth_81

 

[Luigi59]

Incorrect.

Just for grins, I pulled up the pay spreadsheet from son's Firstie year:

Gross Pay each month was $960.90

Average Net Pay for the 11 months was $897.51

Just a $42 deduction for SGLI and FITW?

I won't argue the "net" number as deductions for taxes (Fed and State) may vary among those who claim different state residences, but you can't argue against Federal Law, which sets cadet pay as per the following statute:

37 USC § 203 - RATES

(c) A cadet at the United States Military Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, or the Coast Guard Academy, or a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy, is entitled to monthly cadet pay, or midshipman pay, at the monthly rate equal to 35 percent of the basic pay of a commissioned officer in the pay grade O–1 with less than two years of service.

Current 2012 O-1 pay rate per DFAS pay table is $2,828.40, and 35% of that amount is $989.94

If they are paying them less, they aren't following the law.

 

[Stealth_81]

Absolutely was not disputing the current Gross Pay amount. Son is a 2011 grad so his Firstie year pay would have been based on the 2010 DFAS table.

I was just showing that the net pay is indeed about $900/mo average.

Son is now enjoying 100% of that $2828.40 O-1 pay!

Stealth_81

 

[aseanag]

FICA total deductions on monthly income of $980.00 is $55.93 - 4.2% SS and 1.45% medicare. Many states have no income taxes. Federal income withholding is minimal on 11K per year salary. I believe SGLI is optional! Possible for cadets to clear $890 per month.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

I checked this out, out of curiosity, I am going slightly off topic. My DD was accepted to Stanford. We live in California and DH in 2010 made just over the $100 K mark with his AF retirement. This article is from 2008 and is misleading. DD was offered around $8K off of tuition. We would have had to come up with room and board and books plus the rest of tuition. I say this to make sure others don't think it is all cut and dry at Stanford about the financial aid situation. DD wanted nothing more than to attend, however after she realized by the time she graduated she would owe more than $200K she looked at other options. We had always encouraged her to apply to many schools, to leave all of her options open. She applied and was accepted to Johns Hopkins, Notre Dame, Alabama, Tulane, USAFA, Stanford, UC Davis(just the cost of books had she lived at home), and Cal Poly-SLO(the last two options would have been the lowest cost due to VA disability for my DH). She was a National Merit Scholar finalist and Valedictorian of her class. Her best offer was from Tulane and Alabama. Initially she was wait listed at USAFA (CFA) and did not receive her appointment until May 2nd (we had already moved on to plan B). Ultimately she chose USAFA on her own accord and for her own reasons. I am sure having two retired enlisted Air Force members for parents had some influence, but like I said we had already moved on to Tulane. She was given three days to decide if she wanted to accept the USAFA offer, and she did. It has not been the easiest road, though she has embraced it fully and now says she would not want to be any where else. She will commit this fall. Like I said, off topic but an eye opener none the less.

CONGRATS to your DD for being accepted to Stanford. 34,000 other sharp kids were turned away. It's arguably the toughest school to get into.

When we took a campus tour and I chatted with admissions, the lady I spoke with said 80% of all students got (non-loan) financial aid. They had nearly $17B in endowments.

See http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2011.html#financial . Line h says 732 kids out of 3024 needs were fully met (excluding PLUS loans, unsubsidized loans, and private alternative loans). That is a combo of grants, FAFSA $'s etc. Stanford is "needs blind".

Obviously you lived it so I will error to your experience. But everyone I spoke with said that heavy subsidies start at below $175K AGI.

 

[Christcorp]

I don't think discussing the actual "PENNIES" received net is germane to the discussion. I posted; as Luigi quoted; $800-$900 per month. Even if we want to reduce that to $700-$800, my point is exactly the same. Compared to most civilian college/university scholarships, grants, aid, etc...; that can indeed be QUITE GENEROUS; an appointment to a military academy is generally speaking the best financial investment in education that's available.

Benefits to Cadet/Student:
1. Basically; a full ride education. (Anything education/subsistence related)
2. $800+/- monthly net spending money
3. 100% school/employer (Military) paid health and dental care
4. Graduation 100% debt free (Educationally related)
5. Guaranteed employment with a starting pay at MINIMUM of $40,000 per year

Additional Savings to Parents:
1. Child no longer needing to be on family health/dental insurance
2. Child no longer eating 15-25% of food (Family of 4-6)
3. Child no longer using gas money
4. Other expenses terminated such as clothing, discretionary spending, etc...

If the individual had not received an appointment to the academy, and the individual DID ATTEND college "Some place else"; the individual or family would be spending more than they do compared to being at the academy. That's even with the individual working part time and having a generous scholarship, grant, aid, etc...

That is what my initial post concerning finances was meant for. Not saying anyone not contributing to the AOG was cheap. Not saying that money isn't tight at home. Just that even with the best scholarship, aid, part time work, etc... there is less out of pocket expenses for the parent and the individual when their student is at the academy. Of course, there is always the exception. e.g. the 6-7 year college plan where you work 30-40 hours a week, make a lot of money, and take 8-10 credit hours per semester part time. But comparing apples to apples, if finances are tight NOW, with a cadet in/going into the academy; it would have been TIGHTER if they were going to school some place else.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

But I will stand by my comment that none of them are as financially beneficial as the academies. During the first year, the cadet doesn't get that much money, because they are paying back for their computer, clothing, and many other items. But in very little time, they are making $800-$900 per month at the academy. That's a pretty good chuck of money. $10,000+ per year.

95% or more of the time this statement is true. But I know students that pull out several thousand more $$'s per year than the cost of college. This example is the exception to the rule.

Also, those students that take 2 years of college in high school AND get a free ride (scholarships + FAFSA) and have two years remaining cost less money if they stay local and dodge the cost of typical academy family transportation.

If we ignore the exceptions, you are spot on 95-98% of the time. In my case, I saved $1800 per year for medical insurance premiums, $500 in dental, a TON on food (he eats like a horse), $700 on car insurance, and normal expenses that are hard to measure. Never mind he broke a couple of bones in sports that instantly hit the $4800 medical deductible. Yes. Kid's are expensive but well worth it. Hence, I fall under the majority.