Do you believe in American Exceptionalism?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by LineInTheSand, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006 10-Year Member

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    That's relative too. North Africans will risk it all to make it to Spain. Spain isn't exceptional. Haitians risk it all to get to the Bahamas. The Bahamas are not exceptional. Canadians risk... nothing? Maybe an exchange rate?

    Opportunity will always attract people. The greatest the disparity, the more risk people are willing to take (because there is more reward).
     
  2. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Completely agree with you . I should have clarified, that it is the combination that makes us exceptional. Opportunity/freedom + Most powerful nation in the world + The Constitution = Exceptionalism.
     
  3. osdad

    osdad 5-Year Member

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    My experience tells me that many who are the most vocal about America being exceptional have never lived anywhere else.
     
  4. Zaphod

    Zaphod 10-Year Member Founding Member

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    American Exceptionalism.....

    Let's agree upon what it means first....

    Are we better than anyone else genetically? Nope.
    Are we smarter than anyone just because we're American? Nope.
    Are we braver than anyone else? Nope.

    So what's exceptional?

    What is exceptional is our founding.

    We were born with the idea that the government was subservient to the people, not the other way around.
    We were born with the concept that people have rights that cannot be trodden upon by anyone, rather than privileges given to us by our leaders.
    We were founded with the idea that one's work is one' sown, and done for their own benefit, not that of someone else.

    THAT is what makes us exceptional: that our founding was based upon principles that had never been used to found a nation before.

    Now, was it perfect? Hell no. We fought a war amongst ourselves and have climbed a long way toward the order we were founded for, but the goal was unique.

    Nowadays, of course, all of your work has been spent by a bunch of elites who will never be held accountable. You can do whatever you want with your property, so long as government let's you keep it and agrees with it's use. You can earn as much money as you like, so long as you turn over to the powerful the fruits of your labor under the guise of "economic justice". You can have whatever opinions you like, so long as they are politically correct.

    And before anyone gives me any bull**** about not appreciating immigration, my parents were LEGAL immigrants. They came here LEGALLY and did something that seems to be out of vogue these days: the WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF and LEARNED TO SPEAK ENGLISH. They took not one dime of welfare or government assistance. They didn't whine about discrimination. They provided for themselves, retained their cultural identity while assimilating to the American culture, and gave back much more than they got. Therefore, I know more about immigration than any of the ****** talking heads you see on TV...

    As for seeing other countries, I've travelled and worked in a great deal on countries. There's a reason people die to try and get here as opposed to, say, France...

    I'm going to stop now, before I really tell you what I think. Let me put it this way: I'm not so sure going to USxA is worth it anymore, since the USA seems hell-bent on destroying itself in the name of political correctness and "fairness".

    Let humanity fall into 1,000 years of darkness and see how much they like it better than they did under the dreaded "Pax Americana"...
     
  5. billo

    billo New Member

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    Darn, I am sold by the logic of this argument. So the freedom-loving Founders, none of them must have been slaveowners, seeing they loved freedom so much, right?

    Oh wait...........
     
  6. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006 10-Year Member

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    Well, now you're viewing it through 2014 goggles. At the time freedom for the "ones that mattered" which today is fairly offensive.

    It's hard to frame a discussion today, using today's values, around something that is so long ago (for us).

    Of course, slavery existed long before the U.S., long before England, and long before the Roman Empire (oh right, and in some parts of the world it still exists).

    But we get your point.
     
  7. osdad

    osdad 5-Year Member

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    Granted, our founding was unique. But LIS wasn't asking about 250 years ago. Are we exceptional now? One visit to Europe or Japan or S. Korea should be enough to say otherwise.
     
  8. thepalmers4

    thepalmers4 5-Year Member

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    Yep, it was ours to lose. Think about the aerospace industry. Commercial aviation airframes and engines... the US was absolutely dominant into the 90s. From the perspective of those years, who would have thought that Airbus would become equal to Boeing? Helos, too... is there now any US competition for Airbus Helicopters and Augusta Westland? Heavy, human space launch with the Saturn 5.... and now we buy engines and launch tickets from the Russkies? The U-2 and SR-71... we retired the SR-71, and I believe the U2 will be retired also, replaced by a UAS that has already struggled in that mission.

    We now have an administration that does not seek exceptionalism, other than with its unfunded social welfare programs such as open borders immigration. These programs are the world's finest! Federal borrowing can't support these programs forever, so this administration and ones that follow will attack the military budget. Bloodletting... you ain't seen nothing yet!
     
  9. Zaphod

    Zaphod 10-Year Member Founding Member

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    Yep.

    America sucks.

    Oh, well.... :rolleyes:
     
  10. billo

    billo New Member

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    That's not true and we don't have to look at it with 2014 googles. Even by 1776, many nations had taken steps to abolish slavery and viewed at as an odious practice. A few selected examples.

    Although they were a decided minority, some Founding Fathers became abolitionists because they believed that American's professed principles could not coexist with slavery. And yes, practically all Northern states had abolished slavery rather quickly but that was symbolic since most slaves were in the South. Again, irony no doubt, since a lot of the folks prattling about exceptionalism and freeeeeeeeeedom are Southerners waving those confederate flags.

    By the time the USA abolished slavery in 1865, it was effectively the last Western state to do. Even the Russians had abolished serfdom, which was not as harsh as slavery by the 1850's. Odd for a country whose founding was based on "freedom", don't you think?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
  11. billo

    billo New Member

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    Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
    -- John Adams

    Perhaps it's distressing when one leaves an echo chamber and finds out the rantings of a drug addicted radio host don't jive with reality.
     
  12. AlexT

    AlexT Banned

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    Which host is that?
     
  13. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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    billo really

    "Even the Russians had abolished serfdom, which was not as harsh as slavery by the 1850's."

    I wish that you could tell that to my Great Grandfather who was forced with many other Poles(he was fortunate and survived) to fight in the Russo-Japanese war.

    billo, what does the Bible say about slavery? Give it Google.
     
  14. Zaphod

    Zaphod 10-Year Member Founding Member

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    This is undoubtedly our old friend who trolls here for the express purpose of demonstrating just how stupid liberals are. I mean, come on.... Three posts and they're all here?

    Talk about not having a life...:rolleyes:

    A flaming leftist troll quoting John Adams. Gotta love it...

    I'm not going to feed you anymore, though. I and the rest of us here have much better things to do. Enjoy your miserable self-loathing pointless life. :smile:
     
  15. Day-Tripper

    Day-Tripper 5-Year Member

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    Without the US, Japan would still be ruled by imperialistic generals, hell bent on enslaving all of Asia.

    Without the US, South Korea would still be a Japanese colony.

    Without the US, Europe would speaking Russian.

    Without the US, the lights of freedom go out all over the world.

    Other countries may have higher standards of living, greater per capita income, longer life spans, more generous social welfare systems, etc.

    But without the US acting as the overall defender of the liberal world order that has predominated since 1945, it all falls apart in a decade.
     
  16. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad 5-Year Member

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    I think we are the most exceptional country in all of world history. We do stupid things like everyone else. But when you think about it, We are a nation with historic power capable of completely destroying people and nations in minutes (nuclear). We have always shown incredible restraint. At times really incredible restraint. I wonder what some other nations/people now and in the past would have done with that power.

    US is good