DoDMERB Concern

I don't work for or know DoDMERB regs, but to me if a question asks "do you have or have you ever had" that means if you had something early on report it, if it is not within the parameters for DoDMERB to question or initially DQ they won't! DodMERB is not there to try and trip a candidate up, or DQ everyone they can, they are there to make sure that everyone who enters the Officer Corps is not a future medical problem that could cause major problems. I would hope that the technicians there don't actually look for reasons to DQ candidates, and know from personal experience that the people at DoDMERB will work with candidates to clarify or clear up potential issues. We told both our sons, DO NOT OMIT or LIE about anything either in the application stages, or while in the military. Things like that come back to haunt you later on with security clearances and background checks.
 
As IMPULSIVE states. DoDMERB and the Waiver authorities, try to get to YES. In our era of lessened propensity to serve; obesity; and the other variable that affect recruiting and applications, we try to expand the pool of applicants; not reduce it.

That said, we don't want a condition to get into the military that may not only harm the individual, but those he/she would be in charge of leading in combat. An example: Someone who has a speech impediment that will prevent them for communicating efficiently and effectively under stress, could substantially impact the lives of those being led and the mission. We are not here to be Dream Crushers.
 
First of all, a HUGE shout out to Mr. Mullen, for taking the time to field all of these questions . . . and kudos to his extreme patience (and tact) in so doing. He is a tremendous resource and it's SO GREAT to have him back!!

I do think it's important to keep in mind that the military cannot be an "equal opportunity employer" when it comes to certain medical issues. There are all sorts of people who function perfectly fine in normal civilian life but who have a condition that makes them not suitable for military service, or for certain aspects of military service (i.e., those with colorblindness).

I absolutely agree that people should not diagnose themselves. "Well, I banged my head once and felt dizzy for a moment, so I must have had a concussion" is very different than, "I banged my head, went to urgent care, and was diagnosed with a mild concussion." Be sensible, but be honest. Your life -- and the life of your comrades -- may depend on it.
 
usna1985 said:
I absolutely agree that people should not diagnose themselves. "Well, I banged my head once and felt dizzy for a moment, so I must have had a concussion" is very different than, "I banged my head, went to urgent care, and was diagnosed with a mild concussion." Be sensible, but be honest. Your life -- and the life of your comrades -- may depend on it.
Click to expand...

That was actually my point - don't diagnose yourself. Make the doctors do it.

Obviously, if you were once diagnosed with a concussion by a medical professional - and, if asked if you've ever suffered a concussion - your answer should be YES.

The example I used in my original post was with regard to breaking out with a rash after eating a peanut when you were 4 yrs old. Unless it was medically determined by an allergist that you are allergic to peanuts, you should not play doctor and assume that, at one time, you were allergic to peanuts. For all you know, the rash was completely unrelated to the peanut. Maybe the rash was caused by the new laundry detergent your mom was using to wash your clothes and you just so happened to eat some peanuts that day.

My point was not to presume anything medically about yourself that has not been medically verified. People often go through their lives assuming that they have a certain medical condition that they actually do not have. "I can't eat shell fish because I'm allergic." But, are you? Did an allergist confirm this? Or, did you simply break out after you had shrimp when you were 8 yrs old and, ever since, have avoided eating all shell fish under the assumption that you can't eat lobster, crabs, clams, etc - simply because you got a rash after eating shrimp when you were 8 yrs old? On a medical questionnaire, what would you answer if asked about any allergic reactions to any food product?
 
Last edited:
Except that a regular doctor doesn’t know the nuances of military service.

I for one am grateful such care and attention is taken towards every element of fitness for duty. These people are going to be in charge and leading troops. In remote locations. Perhaps with limited medical facilities. It imperative that they are fully vetted according to military standards. Not general local standards. Frustrating? Yes. But absolutely necessary.

Editing to add: I was addressing a poster here, whose post seems to have disappeared. Either that or I’m losing my mind [emoji848]🤣
 
Last edited:
FACTS:

1. Our contracted medical providers perform an "observe and record" medical exam. They specifically do NOT know the medical standards and do NOT render any medical decisions. Our Medical Reviewers are all senior NCOs on Active Duty (AD) in the various services or retired NCOs that worked as AD Reviewers before retirement. Our sole straight up civilian reviewer has superb attention to detail.

2. Our physicians are very senior 06s with deployment; line support; and Military Treatment Facility experience. Our Chief Medical Officer is a retired Navy physician, that was a mustang before Med School and was the Navy Branch Chief @ DoDMERB before retirement.

3. While there are nuances to military life, these are basically reserved for podiatry, dermatology, mental/behavioral health type issues. Heart issues are heart issues are heart issues. NROTC (Marine Corp Option) folks had/have/and always will have appropriate concerns with shoulders. The Navy designed this test called the Golden Shoulder Eval, which only Navy Physical Therapists (PT) were taught. Given the number of PTs in the Navy and their geographical dispersion (limited), I said "A consult is only as good as the specificity required in the consult." Additionally, I said I would go to the annual PT convention and tell the civilian PTs that the Navy doesn't think they can handle this type evaluation...Needless to say, the Golden Shoulder Exam can now be conducted by any PT, because of the specificity written in the consult. There is a hassle factor to the applicant that is always present in our minds. Folks applying to civilian universities don't need to perform a CFA or undergo a medical exam. Therefore, we try and reduce the hassle and still focus on the main objectives of: Successful completion of training and world-wide deployability for their first obligated period of service.

4. Finally, the vast majority of our applicants are going into supervised accessioning programs to obtain a commission versus being commissioned immediately.
 
MullenLE said:
Being the politically correct and fact based man that I am, I respectfully disagree with Memphis9489, because the suggestions presented are totally incorrect/ill-advised. One of the things about a forum is sometimes people speculate, pontificate, or give personal opinions ,that are not based in fact. This may be misleading and not only potentially cause disenrollment procedures, but may also involve recoupment in some ROTC programs.

FACT # 1a:
21. “History of….” - There are many standards that are NOT related to an applicant’s current medical status, current ability to function, or prognosis for the future. However, these are significant enough to warrant additional scrutiny by the Service where the applicant has applied. Examples regarding knees:

1) This refers to current only - “Current or loose foreign body in the knee joint ”(does NOT meet medical accession standards).

2) This refers to a history of - “History of uncorrected anterior or posterior cruciate ligament injury” (does NOT meet medical accession standards).

FACT #1b = The standards that are specified as "history of," are done so after a great deal of deliberation and approval by the Consultants and Specialty leaders of the Services ; the Surgeons Generals; the Service 3 star Personnel Officers; and the Service Secretary for Manpower and Reserve affairs. The current DoDI 6130.03, Medical Standards for Appointment, Enlistment, and Induction in the Military Services had to be approved by the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness (@ the time The Hon. Robert Wilke, now the Secretary of the VA.)

FACT 2:

I am personally responsible for the Ides of March (15 March) theory that we employ at DoDMERB.

a. If DoDMERB gets a file in late or we feel it will eat up potential waiver authority review time, we will DQ after the 15th of March to allow the waiver review folks to conduct their deliberations and request what they NEED to render a waiver decision. Whereas, in September, we will request the remedials of the applicant to try and get them to a straight up Qualified status.

b. With respect to specifically to: "e. Current orthodontic appliances (mounted or removable, e.g., Invisalign®) for continued active treatment unless: (1) The appliance is permanent or removable retainer(s); or (2) An orthodontist (civilian or military) provides documentation that: (a) Active orthodontic treatment will be completed before being sworn in to active duty; or (b) All orthodontic treatment will be completed before beginning active duty.

1. We have moved that to 31 May, if the appliances have not been removed yet. The documentation might state they'll be removed prior to R & I Days, but there have been many cases over the years, where that did not occur.
2. We avoid surprises for applicants and Academies alike that will end up badly.

FINAL FACT 3:

1. Don't disqualify yourself, is correct. But also don't employ "truth elongation" or concealment, because that "may" be a reason for a turn-back; separation; disenrollment; and in the case of ROTC, possible recoupment.
Click to expand...
 
Mr. Mullen all very good information. How (if at all) is the process different for current cadet dealing with pre-commissioning physical issue?
 
Good question - Not at all.

FACTS:

1. Once a cadet/mid is accessed into the Class on R or I days, DoDMERB is out of the mix with the few exceptions (e.g. Mormons that leave to go on a mission), where they are directed to "reapply." Any and all medical actions are handles by the SA.

2. ROTC = Once a cadet is "contracted," and and all medical actions are handled by that Service ROTC program.
 
at USNA, pre-commissioning physicals are handled by Brigade medical staff not DODMERB, I believe the determination of qualified/not qualified is made by the Brigade Medical Officer who is an O-6. Some of the warfare communities have different standards (Aviation has vision req's plus anthro measurements, Marine ground can be color blind etc). It's common to be qualified for one or more communities but not others.

Waiver decisions are made by the receiving community not the SA, though the SA works hard to make sure graduating Ensigns/2LTs are qualified if at all possible. Sometimes that extends well past graduation - ie. ACL tear in spring of senior year, requires surgery and long rehab.

Also, being designated 'qualified' isn't always the end of the road. ie, if you go aviation, one of the first things you'll do is a full flight physical at NAMI in Pensacola. It's not uncommon for someone to be deemed 'qualified' during the accession process (USNA, NROTC, OCS) then get to NAMI and find out they're eyes are not quite as good as they thought, or their anthro measurements are a bit off and get DQ'd.

Otherwise known as the NAMI whammy
 
MullenLE said:
Good question - Not at all.

FACTS:

1. Once a cadet/mid is accessed into the Class on R or I days, DoDMERB is out of the mix with the few exceptions (e.g. Mormons that leave to go on a mission), where they are directed to "reapply." Any and all medical actions are handles by the SA.

2. ROTC = Once a cadet is "contracted," and and all medical actions are handled by that Service ROTC program.
Click to expand...
Thank you - does the SA follow the same DQ standards as DODMRB and can you refer me somewhere to help answer questions related to remedy’s for issues during the pre-commissioning physical? Not looking to take action but would like to provide some advice :)
 
I suspect you are the parent and not the cadet?
 
^^^

Keep in mind that your cadet(?) is an adult and now responsible for his/her career, including related medical issues. I'm sure he/she will be directed to the appropriate channel if any issues arise. I doubt there is much a parent can do that the mid/cadet can't do for him/herself.

For example, I know of a recent mid who was DQ for aviation due to measurements. The mid was aware of the right/ability to be re-measured and knew the process to do so. Sometimes, there are issues that no one can "fix." Had a classmate who was DQ for aviation (pilot and NFO) due to eyesight (in the "old" day), DQ for subs due to allergies, DQ for surface and USMC because he'd torn apart his knee or ankle while at USNA . . . they wanted to just let him graduate but not commission. He really wanted to serve and was eventually commissioned as a cryptologist (restricted line).
Bottom line is that the process is straightforward -- at least at USNA -- and one the mids are well equipped to navigate.
 
USMAisgreat - have your cadet send me this email and I can help him/her from there :) :

TO: dodmerb_saforums@yahoo.com
TEXT: (USMAisgreat) - complete name and last 4 SSN
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top