Does anyone have a DD-214 from a Service Academy? Wondering why we aren't given one if the time is considered AD for UCMJ, DVA, and GS purposes

[SamAca10]

I'm a veteran and Service Academy grad. I know on my DD-214 it has a checkbox for commissioning source - Service Academy in my case. However, for all intents and purposes Cadets and Mids are AD. So I wonder why we don't receive DD-214s when we graduate from a SA.

38 U.S. Code § 1965 - Definitions

www.law.cornell.edu

Defines Active duty

 

[Capt MJ]

I'm a veteran and Service Academy grad. I know on my DD-214 it has a checkbox for commissioning source - Service Academy in my case. However, for all intents and purposes Cadets and Mids are AD. So I wonder why we don't receive DD-214s when we graduate from a SA.

38 U.S. Code § 1965 - Definitions

www.law.cornell.edu

Defines Active duty

Other Records

Other Records page for Office of the Registrar at USNA.edu. Updated Thu Sep 28 13:40:02 EDT 2023.

www.usna.edu

The USNA AD time does count for federal service retirement calculations. It does not count toward military retirement years in service. (Writing for general readership here)

There are some unique statutory twists, which are due to it being a pre-comm program. USNA midshipmen are indeed active duty, but the twists are seen in the matter of separations (not the officer process, much more streamlined to give USNA maximum flexibility), inability to contribute to TSP until commissioned, the retirement years in service calculation, eligibility for federal VA benefits, etc. Let’s not even talk about no leave accrual as a midshipman, but that magical gift of 60 days’ basket leave after graduation.

Apparently, per the link, USNA does not provide one to graduates. At least there is a resource to go to should you need documentation for federal service.

 

[SamAca10]

Other Records

Other Records page for Office of the Registrar at USNA.edu. Updated Thu Sep 28 13:40:02 EDT 2023.

www.usna.edu

The USNA AD time does count for federal service retirement calculations. It does not count toward military retirement years in service.

There are some unique statutory twists, which are due to it being a pre-comm program. USNA midshipmen are indeed active duty, but the twists are seen in the matter of separations (not the officer process, much more streamlined to give USNA maximum flexibility), inability to contribute to TSP until commissioned, the retirement years in service calculation, eligibility for federal VA benefits, etc.

Apparently, per the link, USNA does not provide one to graduates. At least there is a resource to go to should you need documentation for federal service.

Very interesting. There are all sorts of grey areas here, and those are the ones I'm interested in exploring. Do you have any sources or known links?

I'm trying to find it, but I've read those who went enlisted after leaving a SA could have that time counted towards retirement

 

[Capt MJ]

Very interesting. There are all sorts of grey areas here, and those are the ones I'm interested in exploring. Do you have any sources or known links?

I'm trying to find it, but I've read those who went enlisted after leaving a SA could have that time counted towards retirement

Yes, I think that is true for enlisted personnel. Apples and oranges.

 

[SamAca10]

Yes, I think that is true for enlisted personnel. Apples and oranges.

Most definitely. I'll have to inform one of my old classmates of this. He was dismissed from the Academy 2 weeks prior to graduation because they found out he had a dependent. He decided to enlist and became an E4. So his time at the Academy should help him out. That would put him around 12 years of service.

So in his case, do you think his SA time would count if he did become an officer?

 

[Capt MJ]

Most definitely. I'll have to inform one of my old classmates of this. He was dismissed from the Academy 2 weeks prior to graduation because they found out he had a dependent. He decided to enlist and became an E4. So his time at the Academy should help him out. That would put him around 12 years of service.

So in his case, do you think his SA time would count if he did become an officer?

Pure gut feel here - but I think that’s the crux, SA time does not count for officer calculations for military retirement. A manpower expert would have to figure that out.

If he was dismissed from USNA, he may have also received a very important piece of paper, the form that shows whether he is recommended for any other commissioning program. Clearly, he was able to enlist with no problem; something called an “RE code” was assigned by USNA.

Military Re-Enlistment Code Chart

United States military re-enlistment code chart utilized for determining waiver path for the United States Navy.

www.navycs.com

 

[conrack]

FSA students are in a special category that puts them in a grey area, not officers and not enlisted.

 

[nuensis]

I suspect no DD-214 is issued because there is never a break in service.

According to my service record, I've been in the Navy since I-Day, but the ADSD and PEBD have been adjusted to graduation day.

The dates don't match--someone went in after graduation and changed them so the Academy time doesn't count as active duty service (at least for things that start counting from the ADSD/PEDB). The date adjustment doesn't mean I ever left the Navy between I-Day and now.

In a way, the Navy doctored my records...legally. MIDN time is active duty...until it isn't.

 

[Impulsive]

This for general usage: 10 USC 101 (d)(1) defines "active duty" and seems to include ALL Service Schools including the academies. 10 USC 7326 defines "Service Time", and appears to grant AD service time to Army, Air Force, and Space Force Officers from time of entry onto AD, while Navy and Marine Corps Officers are different in that specifics are included in their definition of Service Time as OFFICERS, which may preclude Pre-Com training (USNA, OCS, DC School). Coast Guard Officers fall under DHS and their guidelines for computation of AD service time for retirement is probably contained in 6 USC.

A DD-214 is normally issued upon separation from service. There can be more than one in the case of an enlisted person who becomes a Commissioned Officer, or if there is a break of more than 48 hours in Service, or if in the case of Reserve or National Guard multiple periods of extended AD are performed with inactive reserve time in between. There is no DD-214 issued after leaving a Pre-Comm program, whether it is an academy or other program. Personnel disenrolled from a Pre-Comm program are issued Branch appropriate disenrollment forms, showing if they are recommended or allowed to participate in future programs. Graduation and Commissioning from a Pre-Comm Program does not constitute a "break in service" so time is accumulated according to 10 USC (except for the Coast Guard). As mentioned above, all DD-214's have a Re-enlistment code and a 3 digit separation code or SPN which details the circumstances under which separation occurs.

JMPO, but it seems like enlisted and officers are treated differently in service time computation for retirement. Enlisted time counts from contract signing (taking the oath), and some officer programs seem to only count upon date of commission, not date of oath.

 

[GWU PNS (emeritus)]

For NROTC, when Midshipmen show up on campus and take their oath, one of the myriad forms they sign is a DD4, which brings them into the Individual Ready Reserve. That form is key in the event they are disenrolled, since it allows the Navy or Marine Corps to enlist them for anywhere between 4-6 years, with reserve time counting out to a total of 8 years.

If they graduate and receive a commission, their ADSD is tethered to USNA's date. Their PEBD is typically tethered to their commissioning date which is on their commissioning oath.

The time they are serving as Midshipmen is noted via the DD4 form in the rare case they become injured or perhaps there is a known injury that occurred during one of their training cruises. But this does not mean that their retirement calculations as an officer are tied to when they started their freshman year (for 4 year scholarships). Otherwise, everyone would be retiring at 26 years instead of 30.

 

[franknd]

People who leave the service academies before graduation DO receive a DD-214. I do not have one, but I know someone who does, and I have seen it.

 

[Capt MJ]

Re-posting the link I mentioned earlier in the thread, about it who gets a DD-214:

Other Records

Other Records page for Office of the Registrar at USNA.edu. Updated Thu Sep 28 13:40:02 EDT 2023.

www.usna.edu

 

[Impulsive]

People who leave the service academies before graduation DO receive a DD-214. I do not have one, but I know someone who does, and I have seen it.

The only instance I have come across as a Veterans Service officer of someone "not completing pre-comm training" and receiving a DD-214 was when the individual was separated on a "Medical Discharge" and received disability. Regular disenrollment usually does NOT entitle someone to a DD-214. I am sure they may be circumstances when a branch issues a DD-214 upon request, but it is not common practice to the best of my knowledge.

 

[franknd]

The only instance I have come across as a Veterans Service officer of someone "not completing pre-comm training" and receiving a DD-214 was when the individual was separated on a "Medical Discharge" and received disability. Regular disenrollment usually does NOT entitle someone to a DD-214. I am sure they may be circumstances when a branch issues a DD-214 upon request, but it is not common practice to the best of my knowledge.

The post right above yours answers the question for mids/cadets who separate from a service academy after 90 days or more. Looks to be available on request.

 

[Impulsive]

The post right above yours answers the question for mids/cadets who separate from a service academy after 90 days or more. Looks to be available on request.

If you read the post completely, you will note the word "MAY" be available. Not to squabble, but there are different documents for different circumstances, I was merely stating what I have encountered in my experience helping veterans. Some do not have, nor can they get DD-214's. That does not preclude them obtaining veterans benefits, simply indicates a different type of separation. I have seen a Congressman get a separated enlisted soldier, separated during boot camp a DD-214, but it didn't change the benefits they were entitled to, nor did it change the re-enlistment options. That can only be done through a request to "correction of military records" request (DD-149).

You may be entirely correct, EVERY midshipman who serves 90 days or more in the Naval Academy may indeed get a DD-214, just in my experience I have not seen that to the case.

Best bet is to go to the source, the Naval Academy, and get the Official Policy.

 

[franknd]

You may be entirely correct, EVERY midshipman who serves 90 days or more in the Naval Academy may indeed get a DD-214, just in my experience I have not seen that to the case.

Best bet is to go to the source, the Naval Academy, and get the Official Policy.

Not sure what you were looking at, but the post I referenced (the one directly above your last post) included a link from the Naval Academy. And the one I have personal knowledge of was from a former USNA mid. The linked info from USNA invites requests from non-grads to request a DD-214. From the wording, I agree that it appears they are not issued as of course, but, instead, on request.

 

[Falcon74]

When I retired from active duty (AD), my DD-214 indicated 28+ years of commissioned service. When I saw the draft of this DD-214 before it was signed, I asked about the AD time as a Cadet and was told that since it was not used in the computation for AD retirement, it didn't show up on the DD-214. I asked that it be referenced in the remarks section even if they needed to add a statement that this AD time was not eligible for AD retirement calculations. They did and everyone was happy.

BTW, I later learned that if you become a government civilian (GS) after military AD retirement, those AD years as a Cadet/Midshipman can be used in the computation of retirement from civil service. One still has to qualify for civil service retirement, but when the retirement is calculated the AD time as a Cadet/Midshipman can be used in addition to the GS time. You do have to buy back those Cadet AD years with interest. However, for me the breakeven period happened in the first month of GS retirement. The process is clearly laid out in the GS rules so that if someone is eligible they can get the credit either with or without a reference on the AD DD-214. My GS boss was not successful as a ROTC graduate, but as an academy graduate, I had no problem navigating the rules for a slight increase in retirement. BTW, buying back your cadet years doesn't impact your AD retirement. You can be eligible for both retirement checks if you earned both.

 

[Woop]

The process is clearly laid out in the GS rules so that if someone is eligible they can get the credit either with or without a reference on the AD DD-214.

I'm just going through this now with the HR Department I'm onboarding with; I cross commissioned into the Navy after West Point so my DD-214 doesn't show the West Point time since the admin folk were really only concerned with USNA time and it wasn't a hill I was going to die on, as I was on my way out.

Any chance you have some documentation of what that process is/what documentation they need to verify that time so I can have that all ready when the HR folk get back to me. I sent them the transcripts I had on file from West Point since that had the dates of enrollment, and they said they'd check to see if that'll check the box, but just trying to stay in front of the 8-ball.

 

[Falcon74]

I'm just going through this now with the HR Department I'm onboarding with; I cross commissioned into the Navy after West Point so my DD-214 doesn't show the West Point time since the admin folk were really only concerned with USNA time and it wasn't a hill I was going to die on, as I was on my way out.

Any chance you have some documentation of what that process is/what documentation they need to verify that time so I can have that all ready when the HR folk get back to me. I sent them the transcripts I had on file from West Point since that had the dates of enrollment, and they said they'd check to see if that'll check the box, but just trying to stay in front of the 8-ball.

The issue of service academy credit for federal civil service retirement isn't an onboarding issue - nor would one want it to be. The only time that the issue is relevant is when you approach retirement as a government civilian. When you get to the point where you know that you will retire from civil service, only then is it to your advantage to exercise the process to "buy-back" your SA time. Despite 45 years of interest, the amount I had to pay to "buy-back" my SA time was surprisingly small. I broke even during my first month of civil service retirement. If you became a GS and didn't stay long enough to retire as a GS employee, then buying back your SA time would have accomplished nothing except denting your checking account. Even if one were to buy back SA time on day one of civil service employment, there would be no impact until you reached retirement! In my case and due to my age, I was a GS employee for 5+ years. I had to serve for five years to be retirement eligible, but once I reached that eligibility point, my GS retirement was computed based on 9+ years.

Regardless of whether or not you cross commissioned, the DD-214 would not show SA time as creditable for active-duty retirement computation. When I retired and recognizing the oddity of being on active duty but not seeing it on my DD-214, I made the request that the AD time as a cadet be noted on my DD-214 with the additional note that it was not used for AD retirement purposes. As it turned out, that additional step (note on my DD-214) was unnecessary since civil service rules already documented that use of the SA AD time.

Buying back AD time also applies to service after SA graduation. If a SA graduate served for say 10 years and then separated (didn't retire), he/she would be eligible to use the prior military time (10+4 = 14 years) when applying for civil service retirement.

Warning: When I did the math, I found that I would never break even if I attempted to stop my AD retirement pay and have a civil service retirement check that reflected the total government service time. AD retirement was a better financial deal!

What You Need to Know About Credit for Military Service

This article discusses why and how Veterans can buy military service toward their Federal Employee Retirement System (FERS) with special guidance for Military Academy graduates.

www.govloop.com

See page 7: https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/csrsfers-handbook/c022.pdf