Does Navy need to anticipate cannabis legalization and plan accordingly?

Regarding CBD, the Naval Academy has gone in the opposite direction and made it more strict. There was a MIDN recently who popped positive for THC, but after a long process of explaining that he was a regular user of CBD, and never used weed, and he somehow proved that, the case was eventually dropped, BUT the policy was updated to prohibit CBD as a banned substance (some of that detail may not be completely accurate, I got this info from current mids).

I don't think anyone would disagree that there are jobs in the DOD where any possible impairment could be deadly, same as commercial pilots, truck drivers, amtrak engineers, doctors, nurses, etc etc, not to mention regular drivers on the road. (by the way, that applies to alcohol as well) Many of those professions are grappling with how to modify their policies (which can certainly be more strict than the law) as society changes with regard to legalization of cannabis.

The key driver will be the science/tests that allows organizations to know with certainty the level of impairment. ie. the idea that operating (or flying, or shooting, or ..) anything while impaired will always be strictly prohibited, but that using cannabis while on leave, for instance, and reporting back on duty a month later should be allowed. It looks like that level of precision is still a ways off, but the concept seems to be gaining steam.

That is why I think that the Canadian military is too far out in front of this, without the science/tests to support it. The Canadian military allows use of cannabis today, with restrictions.
8 hours from use to duty
24 hours from use to operating anything
28 days from use to flying, parachuting, etc
total prohibition during any deployment / operation etc

This is not the govt of Aruba, this is a major NATO partner who flys lots of fast jets, big ships and does quite a bit of joint ops with the US military. The thing that triggered this new policy was law that legalized cannabis nationally in Canada. I think it's inevitable that something like this happens someday - maybe not for a decade, but someday
 
Hon, you may be new to the concept of cannabis, but it has been around and used for thousands of years! The above quoted comments are cracking me up to no end. 🤣

And as @Proud_Pops points out, yeah, alcohol. Alcohol is and has been a cornerstone of the military for as long as I can remember. Especially among the younger members.

Just FYI, I was raised in the "Flower Child" generation, and had many friends and classmates who used pot on a routine basis. And YES, I experimented with pot in college. But serving in both the military as a Law Enforcement Officer, XO of 2 different CG Cutters, Boat Coxswain responsible for the safe performance and successful completion of missions, and in the Federal Law Enforcement service, it is just my opinion that the routine and consistent use of pot by someone who is potentially responsible for loss of life is a gamble. While pot has been around a very long time, it has been routinely banned in both the military and law enforcement communities, and not enough studies have been done to study the lingering effects of everyday or constant use on people who are in extremely stressful and dangerous jobs. Since it has been pointed out that currently there is no way to determine "impairment" or recent use, it is taking a huge chance to just blanket legalize the consumption by military and first responders. And as for alcohol, unfortunately it was and is a staple of military and first responder life, and many many veterans and retired first responders have problems and issues after time that cost lives, families, and jobs. So is alcohol a problem....it is and has been, but at least there is a system in place to identify when someone is impaired, pot does not have that "safety" yet. Again JMHO.

As for pot being used in PTSD and MST cases, and also in chronic pain instances, if it works for the patient it is a much better alternative to opoids, so I agree with @Proud_Pops in that CBD can effectively be used to treat medical issues, but those using it are NOT currently either in the military, or working as first responders, they have left service. And I too know and have lost people to alcohol use, and also concur that it seems to be a problem that is difficult to tackle.
 
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This is not the govt of Aruba, this is a major NATO partner who flys lots of fast jets, big ships and does quite a bit of joint ops with the US military. The thing that triggered this new policy was law that legalized cannabis nationally in Canada. I think it's inevitable that something like this happens someday - maybe not for a decade, but someday
Great post and spot on concerning the Canadian military. Anyone who downplays the importance, professionalism, and capabilities of them have never operated with them.
 
....quite a bit of joint ops with the US military - NO PUN INTENDED :)

because I'm curious, and because it's Friday and I don't have a lot going on this morning, i did some googling.

Turns out, in Canada, there are some company policies in place that are more strict that what the law allows - no surprise there. For instance, Air Canada still has a zero tolerance policy for flight crews (thank god) BUT it seems that it's at least partially because those crews fly all over, not just in Canada, and need to meet US and other countries policies. That's a company policy, not a government aviation rule. The canadian government does not prohibit cannabis use amongst flight crews, they only require 28 days from use to flying - same as their military, it's up the the airline to define their own, more strict policy.

Same with truckers - they have zero tolerance, but mainly because all the trucking companies need to be able to cross the border, and must meet US policies (including drug testing).

You know who IS allowed to use cannabis? Canadian Air Traffic Controllers, they simply have a rule that says they can't show up to work impaired.

Speaking of Law Enforcement - Calgary PD has a total zero tolerance policy, same as US. the Canadian Royal Mounted Police and the Toronto PD allow recreational use but not within 28 days of being on duty. Other police forces, such as Ottawa and Montreal PD allow officers to use "off duty" and required that officers report for duty "fit". Each individual city has it's own policy for first responders

Is sure looks like Canada is going to be the test case for this, and whatever policy debates that come up in the US in the future will use studies and data from Canada about what works and what doesn't.
 
more like 28 days from toke to yoke
That's even better. You have an advantage. I'm just a surface sailor and grunt corpsman.

I do have some aviation experience though. Was on two ships with helos. Been a pax in all helos including CH-3 but not the Osprey. Landed on the JFK strapped in a C-2. Was LCPO of aviation medicine and APTU at Cecil Field. As an IDC I could issue a down chit but also under certain circumstances an up chit. I saw Top Gun several times.
 
In almost EVERY state where pot has been legalized, anyone that purchases or has a user card is immediately notified they cannot carry a weapon legally at any time.
Do you have a source for that? I'm not disputing it, but I've heard that the issue is more of a fed mandate.
In the end though, I'm more comfortable with a gun toter toking than drinking, dude.
 
@A6E Dad

they simply have a rule that says they can't show up to work impaired.

The devil is always in the details, and this is really the first obvious one that presents itself. What's the BAC equivalent for weed, or is it completely a self-reporting system?
 
The devil is always in the details, and this is really the first obvious one that presents itself. What's the BAC equivalent for weed, or is it completely a self-reporting system?

that's the crazy part. how do they know if an officer is "fit for duty". can an officer smoke weed the night before? the week before? who knows - that is the big reason i think this is a bad policy, but i guess the Canadians will be the guinea pig.

lots of links but here is one https://www.policeone.com/canada/articles/marijuana-okd-for-off-duty-canadian-cops-y0nN7LDj0G6kkMUG/
<But Ottawa Police Chief Charles Bordeleau says his department’s policy still requires officers to be ready for duty.

“We feel that [allowing officers to consume cannabis while off duty] is the best approach … respecting the fact that it’s a legal product,” Bordeleau told OttawaMatters. “[But] an officer needs to be fit for duty, regardless of what he or she may be doing off-duty that is legal.” >
 
Do you have a source for that? I'm not disputing it, but I've heard that the issue is more of a fed mandate.
In the end though, I'm more comfortable with a gun toter toking than drinking, dude.

Actually, YES! If you read the statutes in the states that passed legalized marijuana laws, dispensaries and doctors are REQUIRED to notify the appropriate State agency "that controls gun permits and gun sales" and notify them via the appropriate method (writing or electronic). Any permits to purchase or carry weapons SHALL be revoked upon notification. And any L/E officer (current or former) with agency issued credentials SHALL be required to surrender such credentials. I am retired Federal L/E, live in a state with legalized marijuana laws, was told by my doctor and agency that upon issuance of a user card or purchase of any form of marijuana as reported by a dispensary, my credentials and right to carry a weapon would be revoked, and the state would enter the info into its database which is routinely checked by federal agencies.

I am not here "dude" to tell someone what to do, only to give my opinion as to routine use by anyone responsible for the safety of others, at least until such time as technology comes up with a good method to determine impairment. And for the record, I do not think "toting" a firearm on ones person while drinking or doing drugs is a good idea dude. I have friends who use marijuana in one form or another, and others who drink on occasion and none of them "carry" or possess while or after they indulge! If you want to be a "chronic" (daily or routine) user of either drugs or alcohol, IMHO you should find a different profession. Alcoholism is a serious addiction and the services and law enforcement deal with members with this problem all the time, and sometimes if treatment is not able to overcome the problem they are terminated from employment. I know of two in the military and one fellow L/E member fired or forced into retirement because of alcohol related issues.
 
Actually, YES! If you read the statutes in the states that passed legalized marijuana laws, dispensaries and doctors are REQUIRED to notify the appropriate State agency "that controls gun permits and gun sales" and notify them via the appropriate method (writing or electronic). Any permits to purchase or carry weapons SHALL be revoked upon notification. And any L/E officer (current or former) with agency issued credentials SHALL be required to surrender such credentials. I am retired Federal L/E, live in a state with legalized marijuana laws, was told by my doctor and agency that upon issuance of a user card or purchase of any form of marijuana as reported by a dispensary, my credentials and right to carry a weapon would be revoked, and the state would enter the info into its database which is routinely checked by federal agencies.

I am not here "dude" to tell someone what to do, only to give my opinion as to routine use by anyone responsible for the safety of others, at least until such time as technology comes up with a good method to determine impairment. And for the record, I do not think "toting" a firearm on ones person while drinking or doing drugs is a good idea dude. I have friends who use marijuana in one form or another, and others who drink on occasion and none of them "carry" or possess while or after they indulge! If you want to be a "chronic" (daily or routine) user of either drugs or alcohol, IMHO you should find a different profession. Alcoholism is a serious addiction and the services and law enforcement deal with members with this problem all the time, and sometimes if treatment is not able to overcome the problem they are terminated from employment. I know of two in the military and one fellow L/E member fired or forced into retirement because of alcohol related issues.
Thanks for the source! Interesting. I've heard the legal weed stores in Colorado register all buyers.
And understood. I was joking in the second line, inferring that weed users are too mellow.
 
Thanks for the source! Interesting. I've heard the legal weed stores in Colorado register all buyers.
And understood. I was joking in the second line, inferring that weed users are too mellow.
From what I've seen trough family/friends, Oregon, Washington and Massachusetts do not register buyers or have user cards so I don't know how the licensing folks would know who is buying/using.
 
Do you have a source for that?

Also on ATF Form 7433 Firearm Transaction Record - question 11-e

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or
decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
 
This thread has gotten off the original question. JMHO, but even if legalized, marijuana, until technology catches up, should not be legal in the military. The first time a ship is damaged, people are hurt, or killed, or a plane crashes the proverbial "s__t will hit the fan" will happen and the poor individual(s) who didn't realize they did anything wrong will find themselves in legal trouble, possibly because their employer did the "politically expedient thing". The UCMJ has NO requirement to conform with civilian law, and in this case needs to take into account the best interests of the military and safety of the troops, and the protection of the Country.

JMHO, but PLEASE, whether legal or illegal if you have the inclination to do anything involving impairing your ability to function at the highest level, choose a career that DOES NOT risk life, limb, or property. Thank You....:)
 
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