Dollar value of appointment (official)?

[USNA2021_Dad]

Last year at DS's high school, the principal of which is a USAFA grad like me, simply went with the $250K number for the big total, and then some of the statements from Old Navy BGO on the difference between the academies and what most folks consider a 'full ride' when she got to recognizing his appointment. I would keep it simple and not over analyze...just my $0.02.

 

[Memphis9489]

Last year at DS's high school, the principal of which is a USAFA grad like me, simply went with the $250K number for the big total

That's reasonable. It's nominally the total out-of-pocket cost to a student who pays the sticker price at some marquee university of higher learning. You have to include what it would cost a student to pay for EVERYTHING, not just tuition. Books, room-and-board and equipment have to be included ... not to mention "fun money"; of which there is no comparable expense at a service academy.

 

[Just Dad]

Just another way to Calc it: If you search "Colleges with the highest pay for graduates" you'll find that USNA grads, (taken as a group), are salaried just a bit higher than Harvard Grads; so you have a fair market bench mark for the value of a USNA degree in Harvard. I'd figure tuition+costs for Harvard around 75K per year, (you can easily derive a more precise #). 4 x $75k then add back the pay you will receive as a mid 40K (?). I get $340K as the value of the education you've "achieved the opportunity to earn".

I know, I know you've already got this all figured out. Its just that as the guy who writes the checks, it was such a pleasure to do the calculation.

 

[fnatic fanatic]

We don't need Congress asking why we have Service Academies that cost $1M per Ensign when we can get the same thing by sending a kid to ROTC at State U for $125K.

I'd just like to highlight that my tuition for an in-state school costs the Navy approx 4k a semester. Times eight semesters is 32k. Add up summer trainings and uniforms and stipends generously to say that those are 20k throughout my four years. 52k for my education. I wonder how many of cheap in-state NROTC mids you can train for one USNA Mid

 

[usna1985]

I usually say, "it's equivalent to a full four-year scholarship for tuition, room & board, and includes full medical and dental benefits." Or words to that effect.

The problem with numbers is that one has to decide whether to include things like summer training, which is costly and which isn't equivalent to a "normal" college education. It's very difficult to make an accurate comparison that is meaningful.

I did have a great time a few years ago when I was presenting with USMA and USAFA folks in the days when we all had our numbers.

The USMA guy got up and presented, stating that their education was worth $350,000.

The USAFA guy then got up and presented, stating that their education was worth $400,000.

I got up and presented, stating USNA's was $250,000. And then added, "That's the Navy for you. Always doing more with less." Got a huge laugh from the audience.

 

[MidwestDad]

Disagree with this. From what I have seen in SAF, West Point gives out a dollar amount for parents support for dependence purpose. USNA uses time instead. Ask your mids for the tax briefs prepared by JAG that were sent to them last few years.

But as I understand it time is not enough - if dependent lived with you less than half the year but you contributed more than half / X% of their financial support/benefit they are / can be still your dependent.

So I think the SAs still have to provide an 'IRS' price tag for their 'value.'

Lost both our dependents' status this year, tax day is not fun.

 

[jl123]

Disagree with this. From what I have seen in SAF, West Point gives out a dollar amount for parents support for dependence purpose. USNA uses time instead. Ask your mids for the tax briefs prepared by JAG that were sent to them last few years.

But as I understand it time is not enough - if dependent lived with you less than half the year but you contributed more than half / X% of their financial support/benefit they are / can be still your dependent.

So I think the SAs still have to provide an 'IRS' price tag for their 'value.'

Lost both our dependents' status this year, tax day is not fun.

This is correct. There are several criteria in claiming a cadet/midshipman as a dependent, but the critical one is providing more than 50% financial support.

The SA's report the academy/military contribution to the IRS.

 

[Zeus]

This is correct. There are several criteria in claiming a cadet/midshipman as a dependent, but the critical one is providing more than 50% financial support.

According to Navy JAG from Naval District Washington Legal Office who created slides and briefed to midshipmen over the years, living with parents is the proof of support, not a dollar amount. Their interpretation of the 50% is living with your parent(s) for 6 months. USNA doesn’t provide a letter stating a dollar amount like USMA does that I have seen on SAF.

 

[kinnem]

Disagree with this. From what I have seen in SAF, West Point gives out a dollar amount for parents support for dependence purpose. USNA uses time instead. Ask your mids for the tax briefs prepared by JAG that were sent to them last few years.

But as I understand it time is not enough - if dependent lived with you less than half the year but you contributed more than half / X% of their financial support/benefit they are / can be still your dependent.

So I think the SAs still have to provide an 'IRS' price tag for their 'value.'

Lost both our dependents' status this year, tax day is not fun.

But those numbers would not include the value of tuition.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

The SA's report the academy/military contribution to the IRS.

According to Navy JAG from Naval District Washington Legal Office who created slides and briefed to midshipmen over the years, living with parents is the proof of support, not a dollar amount. Their interpretation of the 50% is living with your parent(s) for 6 months. USNA doesn’t provide a letter stating a dollar amount like USMA does that I have seen on SAF.

I tend to support Zeus on this one ....I am not a tax attorney, but understand the system (as well as anyone can), and have kids myself. The burden is on the Parent who wants to claim a kid as an exemption to prove support, not upon the Service Academy to prove that they support the kid. I don't see where the cost of service academy support is relevant to the IRS. Of course, the Service Academy does report pay and benefits and provides the Midshipman a W-2, but that's a different issue.

Bottom line, parent will have a hard time claiming a Midshipman as a dependant after I-day.

 

[kinnem]

There are plenty of old threads discussing child support for tax purposes. Can we get back on track as to what the value of an academy education is? (Assuming OP is still in the building).

 

[jl123]

The SA's report the academy/military contribution to the IRS.

According to Navy JAG from Naval District Washington Legal Office who created slides and briefed to midshipmen over the years, living with parents is the proof of support, not a dollar amount. Their interpretation of the 50% is living with your parent(s) for 6 months. USNA doesn’t provide a letter stating a dollar amount like USMA does that I have seen on SAF.

I tend to support Zeus on this one ....I am not a tax attorney, but understand the system (as well as anyone can), and have kids myself. The burden is on the Parent who wants to claim a kid as an exemption to prove support, not upon the Service Academy to prove that they support the kid. I don't see where the cost of service academy support is relevant to the IRS. Of course, the Service Academy does report pay and benefits and provides the Midshipman a W-2, but that's a different issue.

Bottom line, parent will have a hard time claiming a Midshipman as a dependant after I-day.

Correct that the burden is on the parent - the SA is just providing relevant information of direct and indirect compensation, just as any employer does.

The slide by USNA JAG is incomplete. There are five tests that must be met to be able to claim a dependent:

1. Relationship: child must be son, daughter, or one of several other categories
2. Age: child must be under age 19 or age 24 if a student
3. Residency: child must have lived with parents more than half a year
4. Support: parents must have provided more than half the support for child
5. Joint Return: child can not file a joint return

 

[jl123]

sorry Kinnem.didn't see your post before hitting reply

 

[Memphis9489]

A midshipman can choose to live in Bancroft Hall 365 days a year - even during the summer when they are not assigned any training. Basically, you can be a homeless orphan and be 100% taken care of by the Naval Academy. They will provide you with a roof over your head and a meal to eat. Even at the very end, just prior to graduation when they "kick" the graduating 1/c midshipmen out of Bancroft Hall, if a midshipman has nowhere to go and nowhere to live between the time he is supposed to move out of Bancroft Hall and graduation, he can submit a request to remain in Bancroft Hall and it will certainly be approved.

HISTORICAL NOTE: "Kicking" 1/c midshipmen out of the Hall prior to graduation is a somewhat new thing. Back in my day (circa 70s), we were even allowed to go back to the hall after graduation and gather our few remaining items, usually already packed and ready to go, and then leave. The academy does it the way they do now as a matter of expediency in transitioning from the academic to the summer schedule - not having to worry about crap the 1/c have left behind or the unsuitable condition of their room. They get that all resolved early. In fact, our room had to pass an inspection before we were allowed to graduate. And they weren't kidding! Our stuff had to be packed, ready to go and everything in the room had to be in order so it could be used immediately after graduation. Nonetheless, we could have slept and ate in Bancroft Hall until we had to be in the stadium to graduate.

 

[Memphis9489]

The difference between a full scholarship at a civilian university and a "full scholarship" at a service academy is that there are no strings attached to the civilian version other than maintaining an acceptable GPA and staying out of trouble. Although, those strings attached to the service academy scholarship also come with valuable benefits.

Whenever anybody tells me that their kid got a "full scholarship" at Whatever University, I usually ask, "Really? That's great! The school is paying for all his tuition and his housing?" Invariably, it's just a full-tuition scholarship, not a full-scholarship.

I had a daughter who got a full scholarship to play Division I fastpitch softball in college. I call it a full scholarship because they paid for all her tuition, her housing, her books, and she got a meal plan. Now that's a full scholarship!

 

[FutureNavy333]

In the PTR it says $400,000