My sons recruiter contacted him... He said that his office has not heard anything regarding boarding and that the information my son saw may be what Pima explained in my other thread. He also went on to say that there may be some in re-boarding from last year or that someone may have...(hate to say it) some influance in areas beyond the control of most. What ever the case he said to my kid. Don't worry about the few that you may hear we have until April and further once he is in college. It's all good...
Don't Know What This Means
- Thread starter Blacklab
- Start date
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
Blacklab,
I wish with all of my heart I could say the military is not like the corporate world when it comes to "IT'S NOT WHAT YOU KNOW, BUT WHO YOU KNOW", however, I can't.
It is called BNR = By Name Request. I also call it push/pull. In other words, somebody wants a particular person (push) and uses their connections on the other side to get them in (pull).
It happens, the military is just polite by calling it By Name.
It also happens without the candidate knowing at all. For AFROTC, scholarship lists are released to the dets., so they can see everyone on the list. DS got an AFROTC scholarship, never applied to UNCCH, but because the AFROTC CO saw he was a match, with a scholarship, they went to UNCCH, and UNCCH offered him admission after the application date was way passed. He passed on the offer for personal reasons. Again...push/pull.
It may not be right, but it exists. AFROTC is not like A/NROTC where there are limited slots per school, but I would hope it gives to others the comfort that as much as the system is great, it has it flaws.
OBTW, before anyone starts to flame me, I want to say THIS IS THE RARITY. An 02/3/4 doesn't have the pull. An O5 is iffy at best. O6 better odds. The true influence is FLAG. Hard for an O5 sitting on a board to deny a scholarship to a candidate when an O8 is their rec!
Most O6+ will not support a candidate unless they know them personally, because it is their name on the line, not the candidates. They understand that they will be in their military and if they can't support them they won't.
I believe in the push/pull because I believe in the system. I believe that those requesting a BNR, see something in them that the paper does not illustrate. Naive, yes, but it is also faith in the system.
JMPO if you cannot believe in the system that they do the best for everyone serving, even if it means you get the short end of the stick, you need to re-evaluate if you are a match. Trust me you will get the short end at one time or another. It is what you do when you get it that matters.
I wish with all of my heart I could say the military is not like the corporate world when it comes to "IT'S NOT WHAT YOU KNOW, BUT WHO YOU KNOW", however, I can't.
It is called BNR = By Name Request. I also call it push/pull. In other words, somebody wants a particular person (push) and uses their connections on the other side to get them in (pull).
It happens, the military is just polite by calling it By Name.
It also happens without the candidate knowing at all. For AFROTC, scholarship lists are released to the dets., so they can see everyone on the list. DS got an AFROTC scholarship, never applied to UNCCH, but because the AFROTC CO saw he was a match, with a scholarship, they went to UNCCH, and UNCCH offered him admission after the application date was way passed. He passed on the offer for personal reasons. Again...push/pull.
It may not be right, but it exists. AFROTC is not like A/NROTC where there are limited slots per school, but I would hope it gives to others the comfort that as much as the system is great, it has it flaws.
OBTW, before anyone starts to flame me, I want to say THIS IS THE RARITY. An 02/3/4 doesn't have the pull. An O5 is iffy at best. O6 better odds. The true influence is FLAG. Hard for an O5 sitting on a board to deny a scholarship to a candidate when an O8 is their rec!
Most O6+ will not support a candidate unless they know them personally, because it is their name on the line, not the candidates. They understand that they will be in their military and if they can't support them they won't.
I believe in the push/pull because I believe in the system. I believe that those requesting a BNR, see something in them that the paper does not illustrate. Naive, yes, but it is also faith in the system.
JMPO if you cannot believe in the system that they do the best for everyone serving, even if it means you get the short end of the stick, you need to re-evaluate if you are a match. Trust me you will get the short end at one time or another. It is what you do when you get it that matters.
Blacklab -- be aware that recruiters, even the NROTC designated recruiters for a city/region, are often clueless as to when NETC Boards actually meet, and the results of them. Read last year's NROTC threads... recruiters are often the last to know. It is possible the first Board has met, but it is possible no NETC Board has met, but that 20-30 people around the country have received Instant Scholarship Reservations (ISRs), that are used for both Diversity (their original intent) and super highly qualified (or connected) applicants.
My DS's portal was updated last night and he received a 4 year scholarship to Embry Riddle. We are under the assumption that a board must have met because he does not have ANY connections, he is not reboarded from last year and an Instant Scholarship was never mentioned to him. Hope this info helps. He did turn in his application by June 10th and we've been holding our breath ever since. Good luck to everyone!!
Last edited:
Pima, thank you, thank you, and THANK YOU for calling it what it is!
My son heard a persistent rumor that at one of the battalions he listed on the school choice form, the "outside" influence is particularly strong due to the geo-political reason, and that affected the opportunities available to the cadets for such precious spots like summer school training programs, etc. This partly played a role in where he ended up taking his scholarship to. It all worked out very well: at the school he is attending, he really likes the intensity of the academic work, and was already told that he was the best MS 1 they have had in years.
My son heard a persistent rumor that at one of the battalions he listed on the school choice form, the "outside" influence is particularly strong due to the geo-political reason, and that affected the opportunities available to the cadets for such precious spots like summer school training programs, etc. This partly played a role in where he ended up taking his scholarship to. It all worked out very well: at the school he is attending, he really likes the intensity of the academic work, and was already told that he was the best MS 1 they have had in years.
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
educateme said:
That is why I get in trouble. I call a spade a spade.
I believe in the military, but they have their own faults.
Honestly this started from an NROTC perspective.
Let me give you why I say it is not about what you know.
Jeannie Flynn, 1st Female AF Fighter Pilot back in the 90's.
She is a dang good pilot and I am not debating that. What I am saying is because she was the 1st, and on Time, Newsweek, etc covers, her career became GOLDEN, they will never pass her over. It has nothing to do with anything more than her sex.
The Navy is now going to have that with their 1st female submariners.
I am not implying that they do not deserve it at all. I am saying, that the Navy will give them an edge. Thus, it is not what you know, but who, are you an impact on their public image?
Again, I am for the women like Jeannie Flynn or Nicole (FIFI) Malachowski (1st female Thunderbird). I believe they earned that position. I believe that if they were born XY and not XX they would be in the fighter world. I am just not sure that Jeannie would be at the place she is at, thus it has everything to do with who she is, and less with what she knows. Fifi, without a doubt would be!
Jeannie made the path for Fifi!
Sorry for diverting. Just wanted to illustrate that there is a bigger picture, and until you are in the system you can't see it.
Crazy Times
Okay so I made a few phone calls last night to try and dig up some insight and this is what I understand. First Pima is tracking, the information is solid...again thank you for that!! The way I understand it now is this can in some crazy way be looked at like applying to a college i.e early action, reg. decision. wait listed ect. etc.
So right now there may be a few early action results from some who may already be in college (less expensive). Some that may be lucky enough to have interviewed very well at a hight level...more to say on that. Or some that are just clearly off the charts with their education, sports, choice of tier ect. ect. I'm certain there are some other items that are not listed.
In short it's a big mix of things that Pima has been good to explain. So for all that have not heard relax and breath, this will take time.
All that being said my child was very lucky to have meet with a commodore. What I know is that there is nothing higher then a 5's when they do the interview. My kid got all 5's... The commodore's review write-up made my bride cry...this means the write-up was "very good!" My kids education is top 15% of the class, 3 letters for sports and many hours of community and vol work, & a tier 1 applicant. Now there is more to list but one can only assume that all of the applicants have as much to offer and in other cases better quals. To date there is no firm "yes" or "no" kick back for my kid.
I'm running with Pima's feedback...but in different words. Stand fast, there is more to come here, this borad has their hands full. We should all feel lucky that there are so many quality kids to look at. This says a lot about our military.
Last thing, I guess it may take time for the board to update which has already been said. I also heard that you may even get a letter before the web is updated.
It's all good...all the best everybody!
Okay so I made a few phone calls last night to try and dig up some insight and this is what I understand. First Pima is tracking, the information is solid...again thank you for that!! The way I understand it now is this can in some crazy way be looked at like applying to a college i.e early action, reg. decision. wait listed ect. etc.
So right now there may be a few early action results from some who may already be in college (less expensive). Some that may be lucky enough to have interviewed very well at a hight level...more to say on that. Or some that are just clearly off the charts with their education, sports, choice of tier ect. ect. I'm certain there are some other items that are not listed.
In short it's a big mix of things that Pima has been good to explain. So for all that have not heard relax and breath, this will take time.
All that being said my child was very lucky to have meet with a commodore. What I know is that there is nothing higher then a 5's when they do the interview. My kid got all 5's... The commodore's review write-up made my bride cry...this means the write-up was "very good!" My kids education is top 15% of the class, 3 letters for sports and many hours of community and vol work, & a tier 1 applicant. Now there is more to list but one can only assume that all of the applicants have as much to offer and in other cases better quals. To date there is no firm "yes" or "no" kick back for my kid.
I'm running with Pima's feedback...but in different words. Stand fast, there is more to come here, this borad has their hands full. We should all feel lucky that there are so many quality kids to look at. This says a lot about our military.
Last thing, I guess it may take time for the board to update which has already been said. I also heard that you may even get a letter before the web is updated.
It's all good...all the best everybody!
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
I am glad that you were able to take a deep sigh of relief.
It will become harder down the road as more results are released, but trust me, the fat lady does not sing until the spring! At this point right now she has yet to even arrive to her dressing room.
Right now the best thing you can do is to take campus tours, visit each unit for a one on one. Make an appointment and ask to also meet mids at the unit. When he does remove yourself and meet him at pre-planned location. Kids talk differently when it is just them. Every ROTC cadet/mid will talk differently when parents are there because of respect. You want him to see how he feels personally around these kids. I have known kids that change their list based on how they felt around the cadets/mids.
Meeting at the location allows them to walk the campus like they would next fall without you around. It will give him time to feel it out by himself.
I really can't stress how important it is to visit these units. If your child will be attending a school that is not the host, ask the command to speak to kids from the college he will be attending.
ROTC units also socialize at night, and many have military fraternities. So, it is important to see if these kids interact that way, or if they just come for ROTC and that is it. Centh's DS goes to a x-town unit, about 30 minutes away, but even as a freshman he went on Thursday nights to the unit to hang out.
Our DS's unit has GMC night (100/200's) every week. Sometimes they have pizza and play Xbox, sometimes they play Crud. It is not mandatory, it is bonding time. His freshman fall semester he didn't really go often, but starting at the end of his spring he did, that of course in turn got him to join AAS his fall soph yr. This all gave him that "brotherhood" feeling many military members talk about. His social circle grew to include people he may never had before since his unit has over 150 people in it.
It will become harder down the road as more results are released, but trust me, the fat lady does not sing until the spring! At this point right now she has yet to even arrive to her dressing room.
Right now the best thing you can do is to take campus tours, visit each unit for a one on one. Make an appointment and ask to also meet mids at the unit. When he does remove yourself and meet him at pre-planned location. Kids talk differently when it is just them. Every ROTC cadet/mid will talk differently when parents are there because of respect. You want him to see how he feels personally around these kids. I have known kids that change their list based on how they felt around the cadets/mids.
Meeting at the location allows them to walk the campus like they would next fall without you around. It will give him time to feel it out by himself.
I really can't stress how important it is to visit these units. If your child will be attending a school that is not the host, ask the command to speak to kids from the college he will be attending.
ROTC units also socialize at night, and many have military fraternities. So, it is important to see if these kids interact that way, or if they just come for ROTC and that is it. Centh's DS goes to a x-town unit, about 30 minutes away, but even as a freshman he went on Thursday nights to the unit to hang out.
Our DS's unit has GMC night (100/200's) every week. Sometimes they have pizza and play Xbox, sometimes they play Crud. It is not mandatory, it is bonding time. His freshman fall semester he didn't really go often, but starting at the end of his spring he did, that of course in turn got him to join AAS his fall soph yr. This all gave him that "brotherhood" feeling many military members talk about. His social circle grew to include people he may never had before since his unit has over 150 people in it.
Ahhh yes...
The bride and I actually starting cutting the Mom and Dad ties when our sons came out of 8th grade. As they earned trust and made good choices we would allow a little more rope. If a choice goes bad we step back in for the guidance.
One of the Commodore comments on the review was how well spoken our son is. As parents we only hear the conflictive "I know what I'm doing tone" from our son but that happens to us all.
It is always pleasent when you get comments from adults on how well your kids act and speak when your not around. As a coach I guess I should understand that because so many of these kids are well rounded.
We actually plan on a visit to his first choice in November. I told him he can go to the college and I will go off and get a grinder and eat, eat, eat. If he has the chance to stay he can do that too, I will find a place to have another grinder and a hotel.
He has spent time at a few camps held at colleges which have lasted a week or two so being away is no big deal. He will be "very" excited about the military fraternities. He mentioned once that it was too bad the ROTC units did not have fraternities. It will be a nice surprise for him to find out he was wrong.
All this in the hope that he gets the "Yes" from the board.
One day at a time!!
The bride and I actually starting cutting the Mom and Dad ties when our sons came out of 8th grade. As they earned trust and made good choices we would allow a little more rope. If a choice goes bad we step back in for the guidance.
One of the Commodore comments on the review was how well spoken our son is. As parents we only hear the conflictive "I know what I'm doing tone" from our son but that happens to us all.
It is always pleasent when you get comments from adults on how well your kids act and speak when your not around. As a coach I guess I should understand that because so many of these kids are well rounded.
We actually plan on a visit to his first choice in November. I told him he can go to the college and I will go off and get a grinder and eat, eat, eat. If he has the chance to stay he can do that too, I will find a place to have another grinder and a hotel.
He has spent time at a few camps held at colleges which have lasted a week or two so being away is no big deal. He will be "very" excited about the military fraternities. He mentioned once that it was too bad the ROTC units did not have fraternities. It will be a nice surprise for him to find out he was wrong.
All this in the hope that he gets the "Yes" from the board.
One day at a time!!
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
The military fraternity is not the traditional fraternity. AAS (Arnold Air Society) does not have a campus house like the greek fraternity.
You will find that many do actually rent off campus houses together as upper classman. At DS's school as 1 graduates, somebody new moves in, so in essence it is the frat house.
I don't know about NROTC. AAS also varies from school to school, just like the college, just like the cadre, they have their own personality. For his college there are 3 military fraternities.
Many ROTC cadets do not join Greek because pledging them and doing ROTC usually are not compatible.
I just spoke to him last week about AAS, (he is pledge master this yr) and he was thrilled because to keep the charter they must have 20% of the unit in the fraternity, which meant with current numbers he needed only 5, they have 13 pledges. They are hoping that by spring they will get at least 5 more, and that will make them hit 33% of the unit. It is common that they do not get many freshman in the fall.
So as you can see for his college military fraternities are very popular. Again, every military fraternity is different at every college. AAS at his college is filled with a many that want to fly, majors are varied, and like anything else in life common goals unite them. AAS at another college maybe filled with people who want to go Engineering or Intel or where it is more about the majors.
Another reason to have him talk to the mids at each college.
I said this on another forum and will say it here. Don't assume that the NROTC scholarship is the only way in from a fiscal POV. Many, many candidates that do not receive ROTC scholarships still attend that dream school because the school will award Merit regardless of NROTC.
There are many AFROTC cadets that got the TWE, but are in AFROTC (non-scholarship) and on scholarship. I will bet my BLACK LAB (I have one too) that if he is like many NROTC competitive candidates, there will be merit money from the school even if he gets the TWE from NROTC.
I would suggest you go to www.collegeconfidential.com . Go into the discussion forums and under the college (they are listed alphabetically) post his stats and chance for acceptance/merit. In the post place NROTC applicant.
Not everyone will be ROTC there, but everyone will be a applying, a student, parent, or alumni so they will give you a brutally honest answer. Some will be ROTC, or know someone and they will be able to assist you even further.
~~~They can tell you if ROTC talks to admissions.
~~~They can tell you insight about the unit, and some are nice enough to say, I will give you the tour, just PM me.
Additionally, on some of the college threads, they actually have people that are in the admissions dept., like Marist and Clarkson for AROTC here.
It is worth your time to join it. Actually there are few here on this site that because they met me over there and were interested in ROTC (A/N/AFROTC) I sent them here for assistance.
Collegeconfidential, is about college, not ROTC, and it is a good resource because ROTC is not just about training for AD military, it is also about college. The candidate that is the most successful is the cadet that loves BOTH the school and the ROTC program.
You will find that many do actually rent off campus houses together as upper classman. At DS's school as 1 graduates, somebody new moves in, so in essence it is the frat house.
I don't know about NROTC. AAS also varies from school to school, just like the college, just like the cadre, they have their own personality. For his college there are 3 military fraternities.
Many ROTC cadets do not join Greek because pledging them and doing ROTC usually are not compatible.
I just spoke to him last week about AAS, (he is pledge master this yr) and he was thrilled because to keep the charter they must have 20% of the unit in the fraternity, which meant with current numbers he needed only 5, they have 13 pledges. They are hoping that by spring they will get at least 5 more, and that will make them hit 33% of the unit. It is common that they do not get many freshman in the fall.
So as you can see for his college military fraternities are very popular. Again, every military fraternity is different at every college. AAS at his college is filled with a many that want to fly, majors are varied, and like anything else in life common goals unite them. AAS at another college maybe filled with people who want to go Engineering or Intel or where it is more about the majors.
Another reason to have him talk to the mids at each college.
blacklab said:
I said this on another forum and will say it here. Don't assume that the NROTC scholarship is the only way in from a fiscal POV. Many, many candidates that do not receive ROTC scholarships still attend that dream school because the school will award Merit regardless of NROTC.
There are many AFROTC cadets that got the TWE, but are in AFROTC (non-scholarship) and on scholarship. I will bet my BLACK LAB (I have one too) that if he is like many NROTC competitive candidates, there will be merit money from the school even if he gets the TWE from NROTC.
I would suggest you go to www.collegeconfidential.com . Go into the discussion forums and under the college (they are listed alphabetically) post his stats and chance for acceptance/merit. In the post place NROTC applicant.
Not everyone will be ROTC there, but everyone will be a applying, a student, parent, or alumni so they will give you a brutally honest answer. Some will be ROTC, or know someone and they will be able to assist you even further.
~~~They can tell you if ROTC talks to admissions.
~~~They can tell you insight about the unit, and some are nice enough to say, I will give you the tour, just PM me.
Additionally, on some of the college threads, they actually have people that are in the admissions dept., like Marist and Clarkson for AROTC here.
It is worth your time to join it. Actually there are few here on this site that because they met me over there and were interested in ROTC (A/N/AFROTC) I sent them here for assistance.
Collegeconfidential, is about college, not ROTC, and it is a good resource because ROTC is not just about training for AD military, it is also about college. The candidate that is the most successful is the cadet that loves BOTH the school and the ROTC program.