I am not telling you what to do. Never been in that position and dont have an answer for you. You would think that being honest will be the preferable thing. I also have to imagine that in many cases it is better to keep your mouth shut. Some people only want to hear what they want to hear. There is that old saying something it easier to apologize than to ask permission. I have to imagine that it depends on the college and the particular coach. Some coach is going to be grateful for being honest and some others are going to be pissed for wasting their time. Only you can figure out what is going to work for you.
Don't know what to do about this dilemma. Help is greatly appreciated!
- Thread starter navalaviator00
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The other angle is that the coach may only have a few "blue chips" that he can help get into the school (if it is a tough academic school to get into like Williams, Smith, Carnegie Mellon, etc....) If coach uses a blue chip on you (like it sounds) then are you leaving the school in a very bad situation if you later decline the spot?
LongAgoPlebe
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Division III? Well, that changes things a bit. Division III schools cannot offer athletic scholarships, as you know. What this coach is offering you is support for your ED admission application. So, back to the questions that help you make a decision: would you attend X College and swim for Coach Q if you didn't get in to USNA? Then apply ED and have a really good plan B in case USNA doesn't come through this year.
You do not sign any letter of intent for a DIII school; hence, you're not making any irrevocable promise. You can change your mind at any time and not be in violation of NCAA rules. You can also change your mind with the security of knowing that you have to be admitted to a DIII school based on qualifications and merit, NOT the pull of an athletic coach.
Remember: YOU are the only one looking out for YOU right now.
I would suggest you talk to the coach at the Div III school as you may be surprised at the response. My DD was a re-applicant who was on a DIV-1 team. She was terrified to tell her coach she was leaving the program and put it off for a week after her appointment. When she finally worked up the courage to see him, his response was something similar to "why are you crying, this is something that we should be celebrating." I would imagine that a DIV III coach is in coaching because he loves helping young men and women not necessarily wanting to be a "Nick Saban"
USNA uses LOA's extensively to encourage strong candidates. If you are a strong candidate, it is quite possible you will have an LOA from USNA before you have to accept an ED offer - that means getting your application done as soon as possible.
Absence of an LOA may also factor into your decision process. Once your application is close to complete, you should consider calling your USNA Regional Admissions officer and discuss your situation. Most service academy admissions officers will provide honest and helpful feedback about your chances.
Athletic commitments to DIII schools are non-binding. Either party can back out at any time. The coach wants you to apply ED 1 so he can lock you in. Once you accept the ED offer of admission, you will be expected to withdraw all other applications. If you are a superior applicant for this school, you could probably apply regular decision and still be accepted - admissions will be happy with an excellent student and, if your times are fast enough, the coach won't care how you got there. If it is a stretch school for you, the coach's input will weigh heavily in the admissions decision.
Absence of an LOA may also factor into your decision process. Once your application is close to complete, you should consider calling your USNA Regional Admissions officer and discuss your situation. Most service academy admissions officers will provide honest and helpful feedback about your chances.
Athletic commitments to DIII schools are non-binding. Either party can back out at any time. The coach wants you to apply ED 1 so he can lock you in. Once you accept the ED offer of admission, you will be expected to withdraw all other applications. If you are a superior applicant for this school, you could probably apply regular decision and still be accepted - admissions will be happy with an excellent student and, if your times are fast enough, the coach won't care how you got there. If it is a stretch school for you, the coach's input will weigh heavily in the admissions decision.
DS1 is also a swimmer and last year applied to USMA and 6 Plan B schools (D3). His times weren't fast enough to swim at West Point, but he could live with that. He was honest with his first choice Plan B school (he had to apply EA) and told him his first choice was USMA, but there were no guarantees he would be accepted. The coach respected his honesty and still supported his application. In the end, he was QNS for West Point, but received a 4 year AROTC scholarship for his #1 plan B school and now swims on their swim team.
navalaviator00
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Do you think the admissions counselor will be so upfront and honest about my chances? I have a feeling they will give me a generic response to just continue improving all parts of my application... thanks so much.
navalaviator00
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Also, does anyone have any statistics on just how common LOAs are? I know they are few and far between, but do they number in the tens? Hundreds?
And when do candidates normally receive these? I've heard conflicting reports. People say that you need to submit your entire application before being considered for an LOA, but I also hear that the LOA only becomes offer for admission PENDING completion of the rest of your application... does that mean you don't have to have your application done to get an LOA? I'm slightly confused.
Question for you hliu00- do you need the help of the coach at the D3 school to get admitted there? Is it a reach school for you? If not, then I think the answer is pretty straight forward that you should talk to the D3 coach and tell him/her that you have 2 options.... swim at D3 school or attend USNA and not swim. You would love their support with admissions, but understand if they don't want to spend their coaching capital on your application.
navalaviator00
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Without the help of the coaches, the schools would probably be mid-to-high safe schools for me. So I have a good chance of getting accepted without support.
I think I have decided to forgo ED, and apply all regular decision, while waiting to hear back from USNA. But would I tell the coach that I'm not going to apply early decision, and only regular? Because all his support is with ED applications.
usna1985
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For the OP . . . there is no magic elixir. I know it would be terrific if USNA had ED or if someone could give you some sort of guarantee about your chances at USNA. It won't happen. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of highly qualified candidates don't hear good news until February/March and bad news often doesn't come out until mid-March to early April (along with some good news). And that puts tremendous pressure on certain candidates -- happens every year with many candidates, which doesn't make it easier for any of them, including you.
Folks on this board have provided a lot of terrific advice and food for thought. We can't tell you "what's best" or what you should do because we don't know you. I suggest you discuss this issue with your parent(s), guidance counselor, teacher, coach or someone else who knows you personally -- someone who has a better sense of your qualifications, goals, motivation, financial status, etc. and whose views you trust.
The fact is there is no right answer . . . but probably a best answer for you personally. And those who know you personally are in the best position to help you find that answer. Wishing you the best in whatever you decide.
Folks on this board have provided a lot of terrific advice and food for thought. We can't tell you "what's best" or what you should do because we don't know you. I suggest you discuss this issue with your parent(s), guidance counselor, teacher, coach or someone else who knows you personally -- someone who has a better sense of your qualifications, goals, motivation, financial status, etc. and whose views you trust.
The fact is there is no right answer . . . but probably a best answer for you personally. And those who know you personally are in the best position to help you find that answer. Wishing you the best in whatever you decide.
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Agree with usna1985.
The OP must make a tough choice.
Perhaps the best question to ask yourself is which path will cause you to reflect back ten years from now with regret and say "damn.... what if?
Make a decision that you won't look back with regret.
The OP must make a tough choice.
Perhaps the best question to ask yourself is which path will cause you to reflect back ten years from now with regret and say "damn.... what if?
Make a decision that you won't look back with regret.
My experience is primarily with USMA, but military people tend to be similar across services - they are straightforward and don't like to waste time stringing people along. It won't be held against you to inquire about how competitive your application is and may result in useful feedback.
According to USNA website LOA's can be given as early as September. From that I would infer that the application does not have to be complete, but certainly must include enough information for academic evaluation.
My understanding is that LOA's are given to high potential candidates, but are not few and far between at USNA. Someone with more knowledge of USNA would have to confirm or correct that. By comparison, excluding recruited athletes, USMA gives LOA's to about the top 1% - 2%.
Honestly, now that I know this is a D-3 school, it kind of changes things. Since their is no scholarships involved, you arent going to screw over someone else that could have received the money. Honestly would still be the better method, but outside of worrying about what happens if you reject Early Admission after you commit, you may want to keep quiet. I have no idea what kind of candidate you are, but even if you are a good one, the chances of getting to USNA is still pretty slim. Why ruin your chances with the civilian school when USNA may be a long shot anyway.
Since it is Division 3, I would not apply ED if you intend to go to a Service Academy. Apply Early Action (non-binding). The effect on reneging on ED is also that future students from your HS may be denied admission as the college cannot trust your HS/Guidance Counselor that students will actually attend as they have pledged to.
NovaGrad
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D3 programs do not offer athletic scholarships and have no LOI program so you are not going to be in violation of any NCAA programs if you take a spot. There is however ethical concerns about not being honest with a college coach. MIdwest Dad has provided accurate information about the verbal commitments and LOI's but none of the academies technically offer athletic scholarships and are not participating schools in the LOI progrram. My DD is a recruited athlete and took the honest approach--Here is her experience which was posted in the CGA forum (do not want to have to retype all this)
CidGrad is very accurate. DD was recruited/offered by traditional D1,D2,D3 schools but wants to pursue Academy nominations and serve. She had to reach out to USNA, USMA and Coast Guard as they did not reach out to her even though she had interest from athletic programs with higher profiles. Met with all the coaches, attended camps at USNA and USMA her Freshmen/sophomore years. Went through 2 years of recruiting with USNA and USMA and was told she would not be one of their blue chipped athletes but they were confident she would be welcome on the team as a walk on. Everyone but the blue chips are essentially walk ons. Coaches apparently can tag a select few of incoming recruits as their top priorities (usually 2-4 per class for DD's sport) Keep in mind both USNA, USAF, and USMA are D1 and these coaches have a little more pull I believe then USCGA which is D3 but ultimately there are no Athletic Scholarships at Academies and outside of the blue chip athletes at USNA, USMA and USAF there is very little leg up in the admissions process. Even the Blue Chips have to be superb students with EC's and leadership roles. This is why the Academies do not announce their recruiting classes till May when all the candidates are accepted and cleared through DoDmerb. Even though you will see recruits sign LOI's in February this is largely a ceremonial event and no guarantee of admissions. Some athletes receive LOA's but you still are not guaranteed a spot! Coast Guard is D3 and does not require registration with the NCAA Clearinghouse as was stated but USNA, USMA and USAF do require it. DD is leaning towards USCGA as the Humanitarian aspect appeals to her a great deal.
Now to speak to the issue of balancing recruitment from traditional schools and Academy admission the waters muddy as most athletic programs are done recruiting for their incoming class by the end of the recruits Junior year. This puts the recruit who wishes to gain admittance to an Academy at a disadvantage because most traditional schools will want an acceptance of the athletic scholarship long before your DD/DS will be granted an appointment. I believe there are three ways to play this and it is up to the individual to choose which way they feel comfortable with. Option #1- DD was completely up front with all the schools recruiting her and told them her desire to serve. Offers were made early in her Junior year through early spring of her Junior year and given a timeline of acceptance by late spring at the latest. Recently, on of DD's visits to one of her top 3 traditional school the coach told her that if she committed to his program he would release her from her commitment if she was granted a service academy appointment with no hard feelings. This was an incredibly rare and generous gesture as if DD is lucky enough to be granted an appointment this coach will be scrambling to find an athlete to fill his need for that recruiting class and many athletes have already made their decisions at this point. She accepted the scholarship with a contingency of not being granted an appointment which of course we will not know until winter or Spring of her upcoming senior year. Option#2 is to not be upfront with the coaches at traditional schools about your DD/DS desire to attend an Academy and to accept the scholarship and back out if you gain an appointment without the coach having any prior knowledge (this poses an ethical issue for most). Option #3 is to roll the dice and see if you DD/DS gets an appointment and hope that if that does not materialize there will still be opportunities for them to pick up Athletic money at a D1/D2 program very late in the game. Not unheard of but not that common either and most definitely will limit their choices. I did some research and since none of the Academies offer Athletic Scholarships and none of them participate in the LOI program an athlete's eligibility cannot be affected by backing out of an LOI and attending a Service Academy. This was confirmed in a phone call I placed with the NCAA but I would encourage athletes/parents to do their own research on this fact. This of course has been my interpretation of DD's path and others may have a different perspective. DD will apply to USNA, USMA and plans to apply USCGA early action so she will know where she is headed by Christmas if possible.
navalaviator00
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Thanks so much for your reply. I'm thinking about going with the honest approach, too. One question: you mentioned that your DD was honest with all coaches. What did the other coaches (besides the one who allowed her to "break" contract if accepted to the SA's) say, and how did they react? I understand that's the best case scenario, but I'm afraid that I will come across as ingenuine and not committed to attending __________ because USNA is actually my top choice...
Also, what did your DD actually say to coaches? Did she just explain her situation, or did she also ask each coach if she could accept the scholarship, and then withdraw later if accepted by the SA's?
I know I'm riding a thin line here, and I'm trying to do everything right. Thanks a ton for everyone's help.