MobileRelief

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Hello,

I'm currently an incoming freshman going to attend a four year in-state university. I have been strongly considering AFROTC but have a couple questions. I was planning on majoring in Political Science with a concentration on International Relations, and hoping to double major or minor in a critical language such as Arabic or Russian. Ultimately I hope to be commissioned as an intelligence officer or similar position using these fields of study. My question is, is it feasible to double major while doing the AFROTC program? Neither of these majors are overly difficult or lengthy, but given the ROTC time commitment I am unsure. Also, would having one of my majors as a critical language improve my chances of receiving a scholarship? I'd appreciate any and all advice. Thanks
 
My DS commissioned as a double major in Political Science and International Relations with a minor in history. He carried a 3.4 gpa his entire college career so I do not see any problem doing that.
 
You should consult the individual department major/minor requirements. If your International relations major has a foreign language requirement then those credits would be applicable. Did you carry in any college credits? Summer programs like Project GO would allow you to bank even more credits. What is your experience with foreign languages? Russian and Arabic are considered two of the most difficult languages for Americans. It will help a lot if you have a particular interest in the history and culture of the people who speak the language you choose.

I am not trying to discourage you, but you should know what you're getting into. Many, Many years ago I was in a similar situation. I headed off to college to major in International Affairs, thinking I would study German or Russian. I needed to pick a region of concentration. I chose the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, so the region picked the language for me. I ended up picking up German along the way, since it was the second most widely spoken language in EE. Other than a few rules of syntax and gender agreement, German was simple. Russian (and I'm sure even more so with Arabic) has nothing in common with English other than words with common Greek and Latin roots. The alphabet is the easiest part. It's not impossible. I did it.

I know nothing about picking up scholarships or how ascensions work for AF O-1's. If your heartfelt goal is to commission as an intelligence officer, the Army pond is much larger and may offer more slots. Even so, your first years would probably be spent in a different Army Branch, like Infantry, before doing intelligence work. Either way the Security Clearance bar is raised a notch for intel, so the invasiveness of the background check increases by several orders of magnitude. No way around it.

Study what you love, not what you think the military wants.

Best of Luck!
 
Also, would having one of my majors as a critical language improve my chances of receiving a scholarship?

They do offer a foreign language scholarship for AFROTC.
It is important to understand a couple of aspects for AFROTC, and the scholarships.

1. If offered a foreign language scholarship and once in college you decide you don't want that major, you will be required to get HQ AFROTCs approval to change your major.
~ Typically the chances are slim to none to get that approval. You can still stay in AFROTC, but not on scholarship.
~~ This is something to think about if you need the scholarship to attend your dream school.

2. You MUST be selected to attend Summer Field Training (SFT) as a rising junior (in college). The selection board does not take into consideration if you are or are not on scholarship. They do care about if your tech or non-tech and going rated or non-rated.
~ Here is the problem I see with the Govt and Politics major, even with an International Relations dual major and a minor in foreign language as a non-rated.
~~ The lowest number selected for SFT is and has always been non-tech/non-rated which you would be a part of that group. As I stated my DS did your degree, but, he went rated. The high to low selection rate goes: Tech/rated, Tech/non-rated, non-tech/rated (almost tied with tech/non--rated) and than non-tech/non-rated. Non-tech cgpa has always hovered @3.3/3.4 for rated. I would assume non-tech/non-rated would probably be closer to 3.5+
~ I believe foreign language majors get a bump in scoring for SFT, just like tech majors.
~ NO SFT = high likelihood of AFROTC disenrollment. High = close to 90%+. Disenrollment = loss of scholarship. Loss of scholarship = how do you pay for your final 2 yrs? What is your career chances with that major in a traditional job market?

If your heartfelt goal is to commission as an intelligence officer, the Army pond is much larger and may offer more slots. Even so, your first years would probably be spent in a different Army Branch, like Infantry, before doing intelligence work
That is not how it works for the AF. They will immediately go to Intel school as an O-1. I believe it still at Goodfellow AFB in TX.
There is no spending it in a different branch, such as, for the AF as rated, Comm, Mission Support, maintenance, etc. Granted, if they go maintenance and later want to go Intel, they can apply for a slot. However, upon commissioning they will go straight to Intel.
I am not sure I agree that the pond is much bigger in the Army if we are talking percentage. Of course from a number aspect it is because the AF is much smaller, but statistically I am not sure there is a higher chance. I would suggest that @MobileRelief investigate if statistically they have a higher chance, especially when you look at AFROTC requires SFT.

Every AFB has Intel officers. Every AF squadron has Intel officers. An AF squadron is much smaller than a brigade, probably for a fighter squadron, their unit averages about 100-125 personnel. Heavies have larger units.
~ An Army officer will have a platoon of the same size at what an O2? For an AF officer that would occur much, much, much later, probably O4, as non rated. Rated, it would be 05. Remember a big AFB base is 5K.
~~ DH(fighter) did a tour with the 82nd as an AF ALO and CGSC at Leavenworth. It is a total different life. We loved both tours, but the mission is different along with the life style. DS gives rides to the Army personnel a lot (heavies pilot). I have seen it now from a spouse and a Mom regarding each side for the AF. DS is an O3. Just like his Dad, there is no way he will be in charge of 100+ until he is up for O5.
~AF fliers have a 2nd job, after flying, they are things, such as, scheduling officer, life support, training, weapons, etc. They may fly 2 or days a week, but the remaining work days they are CHAIR FLYING in those jobs that I have mentioned. One job rated officers do not do in the AF as a 2nd job is the INTEL officer. Hence, why as an O-1 they immediately go into Intel.
~ Intel impo is the number 1 or 2 requested field for non-rated....intel/cyberspace are the popular AFSC requests. Key word my opinion.
~~ There has never been 100% winging out of pilot training for AF. Many that "wash out" of the rated programs request 1 of those 2 career fields to finish out their commitment.
~ Heck to even go deeper for every AFB they also have Intel officers at the Wing level, such as at OSS. A wing for an AFB, is @5K. You can make it to flag level as an Intel officer from start to finish (0-1----?)

Either way the Security Clearance bar is raised a notch for intel, so the invasiveness of the background check increases by several orders of magnitude. No way around it.
I agree, but again, for AF, the Intel officers are tied to the AF mission, which is flying, be it a plane, drone or chair. I am just not sure what the point was here. A security clearance will occur for all military members. Intel, may need a TS (not sure...DH and DS were/are fliers), but any and all officers in the AF must have a clearance. It is just a longer and more in depth process for a TS, yet, nothing I would freak out about. If anything that is a selling point to have that TS clearance. A TS clearance lasts 5 yr. ROTC commitment is 4. Defense contractors and GS jobs like job candidates to have that TS clearance since a TS clearance costs thousands of dollars. It gives them edge for a post military career.

Study what you love, not what you think the military wants.
1 million + in agreement.
For AFROTC it becomes even more important impo than going AROTC. See above regarding SFT selection. AROTC does not have that make or break aspect in college.
Don't chase the scholarship, chase your love for your major first because if you chase the scholarship and your gpa is low, than you will have a problem later on. See above regarding Intel being 1 of the top non-rated choices. You might get an SFT slot, but if it is low later on when they drop AFSCs, you could get Finance and Accounting because they filled all of their Intel slots.

My best hopes, wishes and thoughts go to you @MobileRelief . Thank you for wanting to defend this amazing country.
 
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1 thing I forgot to mention, and I would like any current non-tech AFROTC cadet to chime in regarding this issue.
If your International relations major has a foreign language requirement then those credits would be applicable.

I believe a non-tech cadet for AFROTC MUST take at least 9 credits in a foreign language as part of the commissioning requirements.

The importance of this is regarding @cb7893 comment is that it was not the college per se for my DS that required it for his major, but AFROTC since he was a non-tech major.
~ I want to say his college (Big10) required only 2 semesters of a foreign language, but AFROTC required 3. I know this because he had no desire to minor or core concentrate in a foreign language, thus he took French, German and Chinese....1 semester each. IE he did what was required by AFROTC to get commissioned.
 
I am not sure I agree that the pond is much bigger in the Army if we are talking percentage.
I wasn't just referring to new LT's, but also to life after O-2. There are Intel support elements across a very broad spectrum of Army units.

Intel, may need a TS
In the Army, yes.

@Pima , nice to see you're still around.
 
1 thing I forgot to mention, and I would like any current non-tech AFROTC cadet to chime in regarding this issue.


I believe a non-tech cadet for AFROTC MUST take at least 9 credits in a foreign language as part of the commissioning requirements.

The importance of this is regarding @cb7893 comment is that it was not the college per se for my DS that required it for his major, but AFROTC since he was a non-tech major.
~ I want to say his college (Big10) required only 2 semesters of a foreign language, but AFROTC required 3. I know this because he had no desire to minor or core concentrate in a foreign language, thus he took French, German and Chinese....1 semester each. IE he did what was required by AFROTC to get commissioned.

If we're turning out International Relations majors with only a two semester Foreign Language requirement, then...

My greatest achievement in Foreign Affairs was saying my wedding vows in Polish, in a small town Church in Poland during the Cold War and my wife becoming the mother of an Army O-3...and her sticking with me for 40 years.
 
@cb7893 Like I said for my DS he went to a Big10 college.

I did mess up on my 1st response. DS was Dual Govt and Politics, with International Relations. The OP is doing Politics. So for my DS you actually could say he had 3.
DS commissioned with 162 credits.
He did jump start and had 5s on APs.
His college basically said those classes don't match our requirements. I want to say the only credits they accepted for his college credits were freshmen English. Math. History.

I point this out for candidates thinking they can graduate early.
~ Colleges are not STUPID. They want you there for 4 yrs. They will work every which way from Sunday.
~~ Require you to have 2 foreign languages. You got a 5 on your AP Foreign, which means you can skip French 1. However, they do not offer French 2 in the fall. That means you as a freshmen must wait until the spring. It delays your graduation.


I also point this out to HS candidates for AFROTC, scholarship or not, to understand that you will not be able to commission within 3 yrs even if the college accepts all of your HS jump start/AP credits.
~ YOU MUST:
~~ Be a POC for 18 months (3 semesters)
~~ ~ You cannot be a POC without going to SFT
~~~~ You cannot go to SFT until you are an AS200/250.

Just sayin if you go AFROTC, expect 4 yrs in college.
 
Regarding mastering a language, use one or two of your free summers (ie not the summer after sophomore year, which is for SFT), to do intensive language training via Project GO. There will be at least one program in which you can do an entire year's worth of language in 8 weeks or so of intensive instruction: 4hrs per day, 5 days per week.
 
@Pima @cb7893 Thank you for the really detailed response, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to provide me with this info. This may be a stupid question but what does "rated" vs "non rated" mean exactly? The school I'm attending has a federally funded flagship program in Russian, so I thought I might take advantage of that as I am interested in Eastern Europe and Central Asia. I am not dependent on the scholarship to attend my school, although obviously it would reduce some of my debt later on; I am also aware of a Critical Languages Scholarship that is federally funded as well. Out of curiousity, what did your DS do post-graduation and what is he doing now?
 
My son just finished the Project GO for Russian. It was a very intensive program and he did get to an intermediate Russian level in 8 weeks but his classes were 6-7 hours a day 5 days a week with a cultural assignment for the weekend and a few extra hours of study a night. Admittedly, it took up all of his time for those 8 weeks but since we were dealing with Covid restrictions, he didn’t really mind.
 
Due to the more intense time commitment required by AROTC, my desire to participate in sports and other activities at school, and my affinity for the Air Force I am only strongly considering AFROTC even if my chances for a scholarship are lower. I'm also considering Public Affairs major. To your point,I was planning on going to grad school after my four years were finished to make myself a better candidate for jobs and further my education, I am aware that there isn't much for PoliSci/Public Affairs majors straight out of undergrad. If for some reason I am dropped from the program I'll probably just return to my original plan of serving in Peace Corps after graduation
 
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@tgtl That does sound very intensive. Did you have to pay for that or is it funded? Also, is he majoring in Russian or complementing it with another major?
 
Due to the more intense time commitment required by AROTC, my desire to participate in sports and other activities at school, and my affinity for the Air Force I am only strongly considering AFROTC even if my chances for a scholarship are lower. I'm also considering Public Affairs major. To your point,I was planning on going to grad school after my four years were finished to make myself a better candidate for jobs and further my education, I am aware that there isn't much for PoliSci/Public Affairs majors straight out of undergrad. If for some reason I am dropped from the program I'll probably just return to my original plan of serving in Peace Corps after graduation
The chances of attending graduate school immediately after commissioning (if that's what you meant) are slim and none. ROTC programs exist to fill the active duty pipeline and everyone immediately goes on active duty. There may be statistically insignificant exceptions to this that I am unaware of. I mention this in case it changes your thinking.
 
Hello,

I'm currently an incoming freshman going to attend a four year in-state university. I have been strongly considering AFROTC but have a couple questions. I was planning on majoring in Political Science with a concentration on International Relations, and hoping to double major or minor in a critical language such as Arabic or Russian. Ultimately I hope to be commissioned as an intelligence officer or similar position using these fields of study. My question is, is it feasible to double major while doing the AFROTC program? Neither of these majors are overly difficult or lengthy, but given the ROTC time commitment I am unsure. Also, would having one of my majors as a critical language improve my chances of receiving a scholarship? I'd appreciate any and all advice. Thanks
My son did that double major: IR and Russian. But if you're going to a school that's worth its weight, those will be difficult majors. Russian, in particular, is not a walk in the park. As for your second question, talk to the school's detachment. You should also consider joiningAFROTC as a non-scholarship cadet.
 
It was funded. He isn’t majoring in Russian but it complements his IR major. He enjoys learning languages and this was his 2nd foreign language. He added a third language this semester because his college doesn’t have a Russian language program. If he continues with the Russian next summer, it is likely to be oversees.
 
My son did that double major: IR and Russian. But if you're going to a school that's worth its weight, those will be difficult majors. Russian, in particular, is not a walk in the park. As for your second question, talk to the school's detachment. You should also consider joiningAFROTC as a non-scholarship cadet.
What exactly do you mean by joining as a non scholarship cadet? Is there any downside to applying for a scholarship, besides commitment to the major(s) i am awarded it for studying?
 
What exactly do you mean by joining as a non scholarship cadet? Is there any downside to applying for a scholarship, besides a commitment to the major(s) i am awarded it for studying?
I understood your message to mean that you are about to start your freshman year of college and had not applied to AFROTC yet. If so, you can join the school detachment as a non-scholarship cadet. Non-scholarship students can join AFROTC in the hope of obtaining a scholarship for years 2-4.
 
I understood your message to mean that you are about to start your freshman year of college and had not applied to AFROTC yet. If so, you can join the school detachment as a non-scholarship cadet. Non-scholarship students can join AFROTC in the hope of obtaining a scholarship for years 2-4.
Oh okay, I thought you were referencing the in-college scholarships. Yes, I intended to enter as a non-scholarship cadet and apply for scholarship once in college.
 
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