Drug use, to put or not put.

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Anguswarrior112, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    Been seeing quite a bit of threads on here about posters asking whether or not they should put their drug use down. Most of these posters have only experimented with these drugs and are asking whether or not they should answer yes on MEPS or DODMERB documents. Many of us on here highlight the values of integrity and honor when it comes to answering these questions which is good. In my honest opinion however, many people and even myself agree that unless you are a frequent user of drugs or have an incident documented involving drugs, then you should not answer yes to the check box. I don't want to encourage lying on this thread and hope readers make good choices in life but when it comes to making these decisions, use your common sense.

    Yes, you could put down "I only experimented with it" and you run the risk of not getting an appointment or scholarship because of your integrity or have to go through months of waiting for a waiver to be approved which btw is very inefficient when it comes to the military. Many of my friends from high school who are now in the military or near commissioning have all experimented with drugs before like 90% of high school students in the United States. They "lied" on their forms about one time drug use and today they are in the military, they are all good people and are great leaders but people on here may say your friends are liars who should seek a different profession. Let me remind you that whatever you put on your medical records are kept FOREVER. I have a friend who applied for a high clearance job within the government and they pulled his records from his form he filled out in high school about drug use. He marked yes and because of this, he was denied the job. He still got into the military but did not get the job for the agency.

    My point in this thread isn't about encouraging lying, its more of a your not the only one who lied on your form about drug use and that they won't dig through your past like an FBI agent would to criminals. Then again, if your using drugs and aspire to be in the military or currently are, then you should very well check your bearings and ask yourself, "do I want to be seen this way"? Again this is all my opinion.
     
  2. MidCakePa

    MidCakePa Member

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    Uh, that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re saying truth is relative. That if others lie, then it’s OK for you to do so also. You’re saying that if lying helps you get what you want, then it’s OK to lie. You’re saying that one gets to decide how much or how little is yes or no, and based on that judgment it’s OK to lie.

    So there you have it folks! If you want an SA appointment, where the honor code is a vital and integral aspect, go ahead and lie because others before have too. Smoke a little pot, snort a bit of coke, take a couple heroine hits...well, as long as it’s not a “regular” thing, go ahead and lie. If you really, really, really want to attend that SA (and live under that honor code, ironically), go ahead and lie.

    I wish DD had read this advice when she was applying to college. SAT score: 1600. (Not really, but she was close...really close.) Extracurriculars: Captain of five varsity sports. (Not really, but others lie about that sort of thing.) Greatest achievement: Found cure for chronic gingivitis. (Not really, but she really, really wanted to attend an uber-prestigious school.) If she’d done all that, she could be at Stanford instead of USNA. Her loss, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  3. justdoit19

    justdoit19 Member

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    I don’t recall the form DS filled out, 2 years ago, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t ask whether you are a “habitual” or “regular” user. I believe it asks if you have “ever” done it.
     
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  4. Tbpxece

    Tbpxece Member

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    And this is why I wish the pre-service drug use questions would be stricken. Just like DADT did, it puts otherwise well qualified applicants in an ethical quandary that serves no ultimate purpose.

    OP, honesty is always the best policy. But if I'm ever SECDEF, my first move will be to remove the pre-service drug use questions. My second will be to ban waist measurements from incorporation into military "fitness tests". My third will be to ban the wear of reflective belts in active combat zones while in a camouflaged uniform.
     
  5. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    So essentially the people who “lied” on the form and are officers now or are in a service academy now have no integrity and have broken the code. I guess that means that my friends who attended service academies and are great officers now are dishonorable cause they “lied” on the form.
     
  6. Calisurfboy1997

    Calisurfboy1997 Member

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    I agree with Tbpxce, we should be honest. But I do agree with op that the majority of people in the young generation aren’t honest when it comes to saying yes or no. That does not make them a bad person.
     
  7. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    Agree, honesty is the best. I don’t agree with lying in the form, my point is that I can almost guarantee you that a good majority of students in service academies today have used drugs before and lied on the form. Does that mean they are all dishonorable? If your son or daughter drinks occasionally and puts in the form they don’t use alcohol, isn’t that lying too?
     
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  8. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    I ll tell you what’s worse than lying on the form is that when hypocrites tell others to have integrity and be truthful on the form yet they lie or tell their DD/DS to lie on the form themselves.
     
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  9. MidCakePa

    MidCakePa Member

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    Now that we can agree on!
     
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  10. THParent

    THParent Member

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    I agree with absolutely none of that, which is just my opinion as well.
     
  11. THParent

    THParent Member

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    I grew up in the 1960's. I never tried drugs, at all. Still to this day, I have never had a drug that wasn't prescribed to me by a Medical Doctor.

    My DS didn't lie on his application, and when he is asked the same question over and over throughout his career as an officer, all he has to remember is the truth. I can guarantee that he doesn't care whatever someone else wrote on their application, either. What other people do - should not guide us in what we do - if it's not right.

    But I am a Marine. That honor stuff is kind of important to me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  12. VMI2017+3

    VMI2017+3 Member

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    @OJ, I agree with the replies. However, I’m getting the idea that you don’t understand the nature of Honor Codes. Granted I go to VMI with a much stricter one, they’re fundamentally all very similar (ROTC, SA, SMC,...). You basically put across the idea that this was a little lie and is fair because it’s leveling the playing field with other dishonorable people. That’s not how honor codes work. I’ve seen people expelled over much “smaller” lies than what you describe. So regardless of whether the replies of others here resonate with you, this mindset you have has demonstrably ended very poorly for your peers just a few years ahead of you who would have agreed with you.
     
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  13. NJROTC-CC

    NJROTC-CC Member

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    The truth shall set you free. Nothing to think about or worry about.
     
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  14. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    That’s good, you and your DS have integrity and are one of the few that uphold it. I guess my point is that the check box in the form about drug use is a terrible way to measure integrity. Nearly all my friends that were in my Rotc unit in the past and my friends who went to Marine PLC with me admit that they have used or experimented with drugs in the past but never checked yes in the box. I don’t agree with that, but they aren’t bad people.
     
  15. THParent

    THParent Member

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    Honor and integrity isn't something that you can chip away at, and still have.
     
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  16. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    No I understand the honor Code throughly, I’ve been through Rotc and Marine Plc in the past and about to go again and honor and integrity are part of the values that make the military great. I don’t agree with lying at all, but my friends who have lied on the form and are in the military today are great leaders and lying on the checkbox does not define who they are today.
     
  17. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    Very few people in the world today have honor and integrity.
     
  18. NJROTC-CC

    NJROTC-CC Member

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    I WILL say that it hard for some young people today to accept that a cannibus leaf is any more of a “drug” than a tobacco leaf or alcohol. So, there is an argument that unless “drugs” are defined in the question on the form to include marijuana, a “no” answer would be honest even if the applicant had smoked marijuana once or twice. To some people, “drugs” means cocaine, heroin, acid, pills, etc., and not marijuana. But hey, i am a lawyer
     
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  19. Calisurfboy1997

    Calisurfboy1997 Member

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    I both agree and disagree with the OP on here. Honesty is important and defines who you are when no one is looking. I do think that the check box on drug use is merely a measure of an applicants integrity. OP is right that many people who have used drugs lie on the check box so they can skip the waiver process or run the risk of getting denied military service. And he is also right on the part that what is worse than lying on the checkbox is when people tell others to have integrity and be honest yet they lie on the checkbox themselves.

    I will say this though, lets assume someone named John Doe is applying to the service academy. He has took a whiff of pot before and is now in the section of the form asking for drug use. John is a great person and upholds integrity to the highest standard so he checks yes on the box. His other friends all check no and they have done drugs before. When it comes to the medical qualification, the service academies investigate John's drug use and determine that he is a risk to military service and is therefore disqualified. His other friends however who lied are qualified and received acceptance. So, John has integrity and is honest, because of that he is a good person but has now been denied dreams of attending an SA while his friends who lied got accepted. Good for John being honest but now he needs to look somewhere else to pursue his dreams. Btw, this has happened before.
     
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  20. Anguswarrior112

    Anguswarrior112 Member

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    Well, people will tell him "The truth will set you free". Guess in this case not for John Doe.
     
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