Early Career Leadership Opportunities - USCG vs. USN

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Haveaniceday

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Interesting Forbes article comparing opportunity for early at-sea commands in the Coast Guard vs. Navy.

Different missions of each service provide different opportunities. Interesting read.

www.forbes.com

As The U.S. Navy Sheds Small Boats, Junior Officers Are Losing Chances To Take Command. The Coast Guard Could Offer A Solution.

As early career naval officers lose opportunities to gain valuable command experience on small vessels, the U.S. Coast Guard has expanded early leadership opportunities for its for junior officers. Can a joint approach generate more command opportunities for early career naval officers?
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
Haveaniceday said:
Interesting Forbes article comparing opportunity for early at-sea commands in the Coast Guard vs. Navy.

Different missions of each service provide different opportunities. Interesting read.

www.forbes.com

As The U.S. Navy Sheds Small Boats, Junior Officers Are Losing Chances To Take Command. The Coast Guard Could Offer A Solution.

As early career naval officers lose opportunities to gain valuable command experience on small vessels, the U.S. Coast Guard has expanded early leadership opportunities for its for junior officers. Can a joint approach generate more command opportunities for early career naval officers?
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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As a veteran of both sea services with a DS who is weighing USCGA vs USNA this article drives home what I’ve been telling him is one of the biggest differences between the two services. Timely article as decision week approaches.
 
CGQMforlife said:
As a veteran of both sea services with a DS who is weighing USCGA vs USNA this article drives home what I’ve been telling him is one of the biggest differences between the two services. Timely article as decision week approaches.
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Same here (vet of both). DD had the Navy versus CG decision to make last year. She chose CG and is very happy there in New London--and I'm very happy for her. Best of luck to your DS!
 
Disclaimer: No military background whatsoever.

I come from a corporate background and when one is starting a career there are always those who suggest one should join a small company and those who suggest to join a big company.

The ones that suggest joining a small company list the benefit of early exposure to mgmt, handon work, ability to gain experience in across teams etc etc. While those who suggest starting career for a large company lists the benefits of having a big brand on resume, working with big budgets, mentorship etc etc.

A case can always be made for either of the sides.

How is this different?
 
Parent writing from his son's account: As a 20-year veteran US Navy Electronics Technician, I have a hard time imagining a LT commanding a vessel because I only served on big deck ships (three aircraft carriers and one amphibious command ship). But, the Coast Guard is a different service with a different set of missions coupled with a very different culture. So, having a LT as Captain is probably an every day occurrence, especially with the small size of most vessels. With all of the new vessels the Coast Guard is producing coupled with the various old and new mission sets affords my son (and other USCGA appointees and cadets) unprecedented opportunities for professional growth and career mobility. I advised my son that being the Captain is an awesome and frightful responsibility. You are responsible for everything, no matter how small or trivial. However, the rewards for successful tours as commanding officer can lead to the highest pinnacles of success.
 
JC2003 said:
Parent writing from his son's account: As a 20-year veteran US Navy Electronics Technician, I have a hard time imagining a LT commanding a vessel because I only served on big deck ships (three aircraft carriers and one amphibious command ship). But, the Coast Guard is a different service with a different set of missions coupled with a very different culture. So, having a LT as Captain is probably an every day occurrence, especially with the small size of most vessels. With all of the new vessels the Coast Guard is producing coupled with the various old and new mission sets affords my son (and other USCGA appointees and cadets) unprecedented opportunities for professional growth and career mobility. I advised my son that being the Captain is an awesome and frightful responsibility. You are responsible for everything, no matter how small or trivial. However, the rewards for successful tours as commanding officer can lead to the highest pinnacles of success.
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Very true. In the Coast Guard, even a BM1 can be in command of a small boat.

Another important difference between the Navy and CG, that I don't recall the article mentioning, is that every officer in the CG is a line officer. My daughter has her sights on becoming a lawyer (like her dad) yet wants to keep her options open as she progresses in her career. (As an example, the XO on DD's upcoming summer cruise cutter is a Harvard law graduate.)
 
txfwindian said:
Disclaimer: No military background whatsoever.

I come from a corporate background and when one is starting a career there are always those who suggest one should join a small company and those who suggest to join a big company.

The ones that suggest joining a small company list the benefit of early exposure to mgmt, handon work, ability to gain experience in across teams etc etc. While those who suggest starting career for a large company lists the benefits of having a big brand on resume, working with big budgets, mentorship etc etc.

A case can always be made for either of the sides.

How is this different?
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Parent writing from his son's account: You mentioned "mentorship" in your case for the US Navy (large company). In my 20-year US Naval career, I have been both the mentored party (by mid and senior enlisted, and in a few cases, by LT(s) and mid-grade officers) and the mentor of junior enlisted and junior officers (my division officers). It's a unique part of most of the first world's military services that mid to senior-enlisted have their role in mentoring junior officers. All of those things being said, I have seen stellar mentoring, disgracefully poor mentoring, and situations where there was no mentoring at all of junior officers (by their senior officers and/or mid/senior enlisted sailors). Sometimes, senior and mid-grade officers have no desire whatsoever to mentor the junior officers below them. I do not understand why this happens sometimes and I'm not saying this is the predominant attitude or the situation most of the time, but this unfortunate circumstance does occur. I've also seen situations where the junior officer had, to their own determent, no interest or desire to be mentored and learn their jobs properly (mostly Annapolis graduates who, sadly mistaken, thought they new everything on day one). In the US Navy during the times where I saw/participated in good mentorship there was a belief in the mentors that it was necessary to "train their relief." Another factor motivating good mentors is that they want their junior officers trained properly because said junior officer's actions or inactions might endanger lives and/or the safety of the ship (primarily when standing watch as Underway Officer of the Deck). I might be totally off-base here with my next comments, but here goes. Corporations' primary motivation is to make money! A military's primary motivation is supposed to be to defend the nation. You can make a case that there are reasons for good and bad mentorship in both large corporations and in the military. In corporations, a person in the mentor position might want to keep their knowledge and experience to themselves to eliminate competition from the junior employee. In the case of the Navy, I would say that the primary reason for the senior not to mentor properly is not from fear of competition from the junior officer, but more from personal laziness. Disclaimer: In my career, Good vs. Poor mentorship was about a 85% / 15% ratio.
 
On a side note: Does the Coast Guard have Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP - a.k.a. Captain's Mast) like the US Navy, and if they do, at what level is NJP executed? I understand that a larger Coast Guard cutter probably has a LCDR or CDR as Captain, so Captain's Mast conducted under that person's rank is appropriate from my perspective. However, a Coast Guard LT probably has between 5 or 6 to 10 years experience. That's mighty young to have the authority to conduct Captain's Mast. But you know, if they're entrusted to be Captain of a vessel then they probably should be entrusted with the authority to conduct NJP.
 
Bash On said:
Very true. In the Coast Guard, even a BM1 can be in command of a small boat.

Another important difference between the Navy and CG, that I don't recall the article mentioning, is that every officer in the CG is a line officer. My daughter has her sights on becoming a lawyer (like her dad) yet wants to keep her options open as she progresses in her career. (As an example, the XO on DD's upcoming summer cruise cutter is a Harvard law graduate.)
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I tried to explain the Unrestricted Line Officer vs Restricted Line Officer vs Limited Duty Officer thing to my son. I could see the lights partially come on in his eyes, but I'm sure that he didn't understand the differences 100%. It's tricky to explain and to understand. I didn't know that "All" Coast Guard officers are "Line" officers. That is a very pronounced fundamental difference between the two services. In fact, I'm stunned, not positively or negatively, just surprised!
 
JC2003 said:
Parent writing from his son's account: You mentioned "mentorship" in your case for the US Navy (large company). In my 20-year US Naval career, I have been both the mentored party (by mid and senior enlisted, and in a few cases, by LT(s) and mid-grade officers) and the mentor of junior enlisted and junior officers (my division officers). It's a unique part of most of the first world's military services that mid to senior-enlisted have their role in mentoring junior officers. All of those things being said, I have seen stellar mentoring, disgracefully poor mentoring, and situations where there was no mentoring at all of junior officers (by their senior officers and/or mid/senior enlisted sailors). Sometimes, senior and mid-grade officers have no desire whatsoever to mentor the junior officers below them. I do not understand why this happens sometimes and I'm not saying this is the predominant attitude or the situation most of the time, but this unfortunate circumstance does occur. I've also seen situations where the junior officer had, to their own determent, no interest or desire to be mentored and learn their jobs properly (mostly Annapolis graduates who, sadly mistaken, thought they new everything on day one). In the US Navy during the times where I saw/participated in good mentorship there was a belief in the mentors that it was necessary to "train their relief." Another factor motivating good mentors is that they want their junior officers trained properly because said junior officer's actions or inactions might endanger lives and/or the safety of the ship (primarily when standing watch as Underway Officer of the Deck). I might be totally off-base here with my next comments, but here goes. Corporations' primary motivation is to make money! A military's primary motivation is supposed to be to defend the nation. You can make a case that there are reasons for good and bad mentorship in both large corporations and in the military. In corporations, a person in the mentor position might want to keep their knowledge and experience to themselves to eliminate competition from the junior employee. In the case of the Navy, I would say that the primary reason for the senior not to mentor properly is not from fear of competition from the junior officer, but more from personal laziness. Disclaimer: In my career, Good vs. Poor mentorship was about a 85% / 15% ratio.
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You have made good points, totally agree. There are good apples and bad apples everywhere. Percent age may vary across military and corporate and within different corporations. There was a time when GE (under Jack Welch ) attracted the best talent all over the world because of tremendous mentoring opportunities. Some of the brightest from those sets helmed other top Forbes companies as they grew.
 
The comparison of opportunity for command in the Coast Guard vs the Navy will always show that CG has opportunities at virtually all ranks while the Navy has a few at LT/LCDR and most at CDR and CAPT. That said, there are many differences in terms of highly complex multi-unit/domain operations that a Naval Officer will be involved in, sometimes from an early stage. Anti-Submarine Warfare operations which can include Ship (s), Patrol Planes, Helicopter, both own ship and shared as well as friendly subs are a tremendous "ballet" and sometimes a young LT will control the entire assemblage. Amphibious Landings involving several Amphibs, dozens of small craft, dozens of aircraft as well as supporting fires from a myriad of ships and aircraft are "run" by folks with only a few years of service.
On the other hand, Coast Guard Officers are often exposed to more raw seamanship than Naval Officers but that too can be different. Navy tends to operate much further away and do much longer transits as well as do a lot more underway replenishment operations.
 
The comments posted have been extremely informative, and I daresay, have made me revisit some of my naval career experiences with fresh perspectives. Obviously, the commenters so far have been adults, most with military experience. I just hope some of the new cadets read our comments and learn from our combined experiences.
 
DS initially struggled with the USNA vs USCGA decision. I know he is very happy with his USCG decision.

He will soon depart on a 10K nautical mile transit of a new $70M FRC to the cutter's home port. The CO is a Lieutenant. Lots of hands on for a junior officer.
 
In my experience with both services Coasties are thrust into leadership positions at a much earlier point in their career. This is true for both Officers and Enlisted. As a QM1 I was expected to stand underway OOD. I remember going to a ship handling and piloting school at Naval Base Norfolk that was run by and for naval officers and being the only enlisted at the course
 
JC2003 said:
On a side note: Does the Coast Guard have Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP - a.k.a. Captain's Mast) like the US Navy, and if they do, at what level is NJP executed? I understand that a larger Coast Guard cutter probably has a LCDR or CDR as Captain, so Captain's Mast conducted under that person's rank is appropriate from my perspective. However, a Coast Guard LT probably has between 5 or 6 to 10 years experience. That's mighty young to have the authority to conduct Captain's Mast. But you know, if they're entrusted to be Captain of a vessel then they probably should be entrusted with the authority to conduct NJP.
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Yes, NJP. Commanding Officers can deal it out, but for land units NJP can be appealed for Court Martial.

I don't remember what would happen for smaller units. We had a number of masts on our ship. Smaller cutters can be sector units, and I don't know how sector commands would play into it.

I was at a Navy school early on in my cutter time and I remember finding out the collateral duties of my Navy classmates and being surprised how fewer they had.... then we visited one of their frigates (this was Mayport) and it was something like 4-8 junior officers to a stateroom. My cutter was smaller but I only had to share my stateroom with one smelly annoying person.
 
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JC2003 said:
On a side note: Does the Coast Guard have Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP - a.k.a. Captain's Mast) like the US Navy, and if they do, at what level is NJP executed? I understand that a larger Coast Guard cutter probably has a LCDR or CDR as Captain, so Captain's Mast conducted under that person's rank is appropriate from my perspective. However, a Coast Guard LT probably has between 5 or 6 to 10 years experience. That's mighty young to have the authority to conduct Captain's Mast. But you know, if they're entrusted to be Captain of a vessel then they probably should be entrusted with the authority to conduct NJP.
Click to expand...
As a Naval Officer, I transitioned from Active to Reserve as a LT at the 7 yr point and became XO of a smallish unit of roughly 20 people. Approx 6 or so months later, I fleeted up to CO and I almost immediately had to deal with a pretty serious Mast case so it does happen. The offender was an E6 who was probably 10 yrs older than I was and his civilian job was as a Professor at a very high profile (Ivy) university.
 
Glad everyone enjoyed the article, I thought it showed both sides of the issue.

On the Mast question, it takes time and experience to develop the wisdom to sit in judgment.

But, at least procedurally, there are frequent cadets who are brought to Mast at the academy and many of their shipmates attend and some provide statements of support. These are usually for minor infractions, but does drive home the accountability aspect, and by the time they graduate, they have all witnessed at least several masts and are familiar with the charges, procedures, and the outcomes. Then they chat about the penalties imposed, i.e.: is it really worth 20 marching tours to return late from leave, etc. They often know the participants involved being such a small Academy compared to the Navy for example. I think this exposure early in their career provides insight to the many facets of NJP.

Cadets, in their four years, will also see others removed from the service. So they understand the potential severity as well.
 
Thanks for this article. Son is deciding between Coast Guard Academy and 4 year Navy ROTC Scholarship. Timely
 
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