Ens. Cameron Kinley

I have the same feeling I had when Noah Song was denied a few years ago. I would have really enjoyed seeing them play and wish that we had consistency across the service branches
 
www.cnn.com

Navy denies football team captain's request to delay service and try to play in the NFL | CNN

The US Navy has denied a request by football team captain Cameron Kinley to delay his military service and try to play in the National Football League.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

There is a changing landscape view on these decisions, swinging from one precedent to another over the years, and to add to the fog, widely varying decisions among SAs in any given year. When a policy is apparently unevenly applied in any given year across SAs, it’s hard to figure out the decision process.

I personally feel the policy in place when a mid or cadet signs their obligation papers at the start of their 2/c year should be the policy that applies at their graduation.

There are some who would draw a hard line and not allow it at all. I do like it, though, when announcers comment on a player’s military service, vet status or SA background. It’s good PR. I was happy to see USMA grad Alejandro Villanueva join the Baltimore Ravens last month; I think of him as a fellow vet.

Perhaps a hard (a tiny one) percentage of the class should be set as an upper limit for DOD SA grads who want to play professional sports, along with required Reserve commitment, and agreed to among the SAs.
 
I know the needs of the Navy steer all decisions, and I'm not privy to those. But inconsistency isn't a good look for any leadership when decisions are being made. Or, if they change course, maybe a reason would be nice. But, I understand they don't have to explain themselves to me.

I liked him during his Class President commencement speech.
 
Since this forum is open to opinions, one thing I haven’t really seen discussed is the fact that ENS Kinley was service assigned to the cryptological/information warfare community. The amount of foreign cyber attacks against our nation has been unprecedented in the past year, directly affecting our security and economy(gas pipeline, data exposure, transportation/subway, meat farms, etc), thus increasing our need for more attention and a stronger force in this area. I’ve heard countless times this year of military leaders stating that the next conflict will not be what we think of as a traditional war. It will be cyber affiliated. This coupled with his service assignment is my opinion for this happening. But this is just two cents from an incoming plebe.
 
Roger Staubach's career numbers would have been much better if he had been allowed to play right after commissioning instead of after his commitment. David Robinson was a first round draft pick and an easy argument could be made that he was a PR masterpiece, (the Admiral). Unfortunately, Cameron Kinley was neither drafted or given a contract. His chances of playing are less than 1/2 of Malcom Perry's were. Maybe they should say, go to summer camp and if you get a contract we'll re-examine your case. I'm not going to lose any sleep over him not getting to play.
 
www.cnn.com

Navy denies football team captain's request to delay service and try to play in the NFL | CNN

The US Navy has denied a request by football team captain Cameron Kinley to delay his military service and try to play in the National Football League.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

www.baltimoresun.com

‘I guess my baseball career is over’: Navy denies pitcher Charlie Connolly’s request to pursue professional career

Navy baseball pitcher Charlie Connolly throws the type of fastball that makes professional scouts sit up and take notice. Connolly has consistently clocked 94 to 96 MPH on the radar gun and has abo…
www.baltimoresun.com www.baltimoresun.com


😢😢😢😢😢😢
 
DOD priority #1- needs of the US Navy. Midshipman priority #1- commissioned officer. Everything else comes thereafter. I believe that ENS Kinley was not the only midshipman denied a delay of service (Charlie Connolly). That being said, PR nightmare- but I have zero knowledge on why the decision was made, nor should I.
 
WolfPackGrunt said:
DOD priority #1- needs of the US Navy. Midshipman priority #1- commissioned officer. Everything else comes thereafter. I believe that Mr. Kinley was not the only midshipman denied a delay of service (Charlie Connolly). That being said, PR nightmare- but I have zero knowledge on why the decision was made, nor should I.
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Good points. Needs of the Navy always the long pole in the tent.
 
I’m not sure if it’s the article that makes the situation worse, but the tone that seems to “blame” the Navy for denying these requests is ridiculous. The Navy is under no obligation to allow a deferment or early release, both athletes need to accept that the chain of command made a decision and move on. They knew what they signed up for, they should have known or reasonably should have known that this policy goes back and forth and there are no guarantees. I also agree that the policy should be consistent…consistent across DoD, the Services, and across all sports…the easiest way to be consistent is to not make exceptions. Once you make the exception for one, then why not the other. Why for football, but not baseball, etc? Would be curious to see what the Supe’s recommendation was and what counseling occurs with these athletes when these chits are routed.

Also, the quoted statements seem very unprofessional for a commissioned officer to make to the media…”having it taken away from me.” Really seems to undermine the Acting SECNAV’s decision.
 
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Capt MJ said:
Perhaps a hard (a tiny one) percentage of the class should be set as an upper limit for DOD SA grads who want to play professional sports, along with required Reserve commitment, and agreed to among the SAs.
Click to expand...
While everyone has (and is entitled to) their own opinion about this -- as a Mid, I absolutely feel crushed for Cam (as I do for Charlie and last year for Noah.)

For those who haven't lived on the yard the past couple of years, you may not fully understand - and it would be hard to understate -- how signficant, impactful and positive Cam's everyday presence has been -- and I don't mean on the football field or even at graduation & commissioning.

He is a tremendous leader and even more specifically, a transformative ambassador for USNA. What gets lost here is not only the massive PR upside of his story potentially playing out in the NFL, but that this has truly turned into a really negative, national PR event - a testament to genuinly how positive, Cam's story is and can be.

And just so everyone is clear -- Cam never expressed any interest or intent of getting out of his service obligation at all -- just delaying it while simultaneously, serving as a defacto USNA brand ambassador while he pursued his other childhood dream of playing on Sundays and then, serving his IW committment after his Sunday playing days came to an end (whether at the end of rookie camp/OTA's or in a few years.) But that's just my opinion.

***

More importantly -- and as always, Capt MJ is beyond wise -- and I actually think her idea of the DOD setting aside a tiny percentage of annual billets (per Academy) for SA grads who want to pursue professional sports may be the best path forward in capturing the upside -- while remaining true to the larger, most important mission.

By way of direct analogy, it would not be unlike other, restricted line billets -- and in many ways, very specifically like service selecting Med Corps.

Each year, 8-to-12 graduating USNA seniors are permitted to pursue their medical education directly upon graduation from USNA.

Most Mids know up-front (or at least before 2-for-7) that this is a long-shot and that nothing is guaranteed; the odds are stacked against you. And like football, most Mids know that if they habor dreams to go directly to med school after college - that attending a civlian university (versus an SA) makes a ton more sense. Those that do choose to consider Med Corps also learn early on that there is a very capable internal committee of faculty and staff within USNA who select who gets chosen based on OOM, CPQR, MCAT scores etc.

Essentially, Mids apply for the Med Corp billet late in their 2/C year -- essentially getting permission from USNA to apply to medical school during their senior year.

Mids who are permitted to apply -- and then get into med school -- end-up earning the billet and go on to attend either one of the civilian medical schools that they were admitted into or attend USUHS (in Bethesda.) To be clear the USNA committee doesn't recommend or permit kids who have zero chance of getting into medical school to apply for the billet -- analagous to letting the handful of legitimate professional sport aspirants who are likely to be drafted or sign free agent contracts go through that process (draft, free agent workouts etc.)

Back on the med school front, in both instances, additional service time is accrued on top of the normal five years -- usually a year for each year of med school -- but for the four years of medical school -- they live as civilians (at least those attending civilian medical schools vs. those attending USUHS) even though they have graduated and commissioned from USNA.

Per Capt MJ's suggestion, setting up something analagous to this (a more formal, restricted line position for Mids who aspire (and possess the ability to play professionally) could make a ton of sense. Embedded in this would be strong vetting, perhaps a unique set of obligations that go with the billet and even perhaps, longer service time post the delay during their playing days.

Like everything, there will be elements to this program that would be inherently subjective and challenging to administer -- and I definitely don't have all of the answers.

But Capt MJ's suggestion would at least lead to a policy and path that could be more evenly and programatically applied and known by all up-front. This scenario could again, capture and in fact, truly leverage a lot of the PR upside and make the process far more equitable, less controversial and most of all, clear for everyone (Mids, fans, proponents and detractors etc.)
 
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@20USNA23 excellent post and acknowledgement of @Capt MJ and her idea.

I’d like to see this made into an article and submitted to https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings or similar publication.

My personal opinion on the ensign is he’ll never see a snap in an NFL game regardless of the decision of the USN, and I agree with @usnabgo08 above that the ensign’s comment “having it taken away from me” is undermining the Navy’s decision and further, detrimental to good order and discipline.
 
My personal opinion is that our nation would be better served if all the SA’s competed in NCAA Division III instead of Division I. A slightly different, but related, topic. Very few Division III athletes go on to pro sports

I agree with @Heatherg21 “if you wanted a shot at an NFL career, you could have selected a different path. SA path has pretty clearly defined requirements upon commissioning.”

I also like @capt MJ’s idea of establishing a limited number of slots for exemptions for pro athletes.
 
With my lack of football knowledge, it sucks that he was not selected in the draft because even if he was the last pick in the sixth round he probably would have been given a shot. Malcolm Perry was a sixth round pick (I believe) and he played a few snaps with the Miami Dolphins.
 
I was thinking about this the other day while watching a "Spring League" football game. With multiple "minor" football leagues starting (spring league, xfl, usfl, cfl, etc) popping up and with baseball having multiple minor divisions, I could see more and more mids requesting delaying to pursue sports. They may not be nfl/mlb right out of the gate, but I bet there are a few that could make some of these other leagues.
 
I also think that IF a deferment or early release policy were to be adapted, it needs to be a data driven decision. Is the Navy having recruiting issues? Are there certain skillset areas that need to be targeted? How much would sending a pro athlete be THE deciding factor in tipping interest in a commission or enlistment? In other words, is there really a true benefit that would outweigh the costs. I wonder if some of these questions were apart of the discussion within DON.
 
I also like @Capt MJ suggestions esp. the one that the rules in place on the day when a cadet/mid commits are the ones that apply.
 
20USNA23 said:
While everyone has (and is entitled to) their own opinion about this -- as a Mid, I absolutely feel crushed for Cam (as I do for Charlie and last year for Noah.)

For those who haven't lived on the yard the past couple of years, you may not fully understand - and it would be hard to understate -- how signficant, impactful and positive Cam's everyday presence has been -- and I don't mean on the football field or even at graduation & commissioning.

He is a tremendous leader and even more specifically, a transformative ambassador for USNA. What gets lost here is not only the massive PR upside of his story potentially playing out in the NFL, but that this has truly turned into a really negative, national PR event - a testament to genuinly how positive, Cam's story is and can be.

And just so everyone is clear -- Cam never expressed any interest or intent of getting out of his service obligation at all -- just delaying it while simultaneously, serving as a defacto USNA brand ambassador while he pursued his other childhood dream of playing on Sundays and then, serving his IW committment after his Sunday playing days came to an end (whether at the end of rookie camp/OTA's or in a few years.) But that's just my opinion.

***

More importantly -- and as always, Capt MJ is beyond wise -- and I actually think her idea of the DOD setting aside a tiny percentage of annual billets (per Academy) for SA grads who want to pursue professional sports may be the best path forward in capturing the upside -- while remaining true to the larger, most important mission.

By way of direct analogy, it would not be unlike other, restricted line billets -- and in many ways, very specifically like service selecting Med Corps.

Each year, 8-to-12 graduating USNA seniors are permitted to pursue their medical education directly upon graduation from USNA.

Most Mids know up-front (or at least before 2-for-7) that this is a long-shot and that nothing is guaranteed; the odds are stacked against you. And like football, most Mids know that if they habor dreams to go directly to med school after college - that attending a civlian university (versus an SA) makes a ton more sense. Those that do choose to consider Med Corps also learn early on that there is a very capable internal committee of faculty and staff within USNA who select who gets chosen based on OOM, CPQR, MCAT scores etc.

Essentially, Mids apply for the Med Corp billet late in their 2/C year -- essentially getting permission from USNA to apply to medical school during their senior year.

Mids who are permitted to apply -- and then get into med school -- end-up earning the billet and go on to attend either one of the civilian medical schools that they were admitted into or attend USUHS (in Bethesda.) To be clear the USNA committee doesn't recommend or permit kids who have zero chance of getting into medical school to apply for the billet -- analagous to letting the handful of legitimate professional sport aspirants who are likely to be drafted or sign free agent contracts go through that process (draft, free agent workouts etc.)

Back on the med school front, in both instances, additional service time is accrued on top of the normal five years -- usually a year for each year of med school -- but for the four years of medical school -- they live as civilians (at least those attending civilian medical schools vs. those attending USUHS) even though they have graduated and commissioned from USNA.

Per Capt MJ's suggestion, setting up something analagous to this (a more formal, restricted line position for Mids who aspire (and possess the ability to play professionally) could make a ton of sense. Embedded in this would be strong vetting, perhaps a unique set of obligations that go with the billet and even perhaps, longer service time post the delay during their playing days.

Like everything, there will be elements to this program that would be inherently subjective and challenging to administer -- and I definitely don't have all of the answers.

But Capt MJ's suggestion would at least lead to a policy and path that could be more evenly and programatically applied and known by all up-front. This scenario could again, capture and in fact, truly leverage a lot of the PR upside and make the process far more equitable, less controversial and most of all, clear for everyone (Mids, fans, proponents and detractors etc.)
Click to expand...
I sat on that USNA Med Corps Committee as a BattO, serving as the Dant’s rep. Exactly where I drew my suggestion from.
 
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