Ens. Cameron Kinley

Came here to post this. Didn’t want to start a whole different thread I guess. Counted 7 yesterday. No mention of serving, or ‘scholarship if fully qualified’. No wonder kids see these and assume the athlete is ‘taking a spot’. Looks ‘all in’ as stated.

Hopefully, athletes go in eyes wide open.


Let the “blessed to receive” season begin 🙌!!

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justdoit19 said:
Came here to post this. Didn’t want to start a whole different thread I guess. Counted 7 yesterday. No mention of serving, or ‘scholarship if fully qualified’. No wonder kids see these and assume the athlete is ‘taking a spot’. Looks ‘all in’ as stated.

Hopefully, athletes go in eyes wide open.


Let the “blessed to receive” season begin 🙌!!

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The offer of a scholarship is made by the Navy Football Staff. Smoke and marketing mirrors, and rather disingenuous. No standing to offer an appointment.

No mention of an offer of appointment by USNA Admissions either…

For any applicant who either receives one of these or observes one going to someone else, if they haven’t done their homework by reading everything at USNA.edu, asking questions in Admissions live chat or primary sources, I can see why they would think an offer of appointment was being made.
 
I follow Navy Football on Twitter. That was my feed. I randomly picked on to screen shoot. The retweets by Navy Football. I get the hype. But it IS VERY MISLEADING.

Seasoned people understand. But new candidates. Applicants. Parents. Even educators and coaches…they don’t know the process.

IMO, at the very LEAST there should be an asterisk, at the bottom, and fine print stating SOMETHING about ‘pending an appointment’ or similar. BC ITS NOT A SCHOLARSHIP.

Crazy.
 
I have sat thru a number of SA recruiting pitches for sports first hand. I have had 2nd hand feed back from many other such meetings.

The coaches tend to be very upfront about the process. At least the basic steps involved including medical. . And they might mention prep school. Especially if it’s a 3.2 student with 980 or 1020 SATs. They stress the academic help that will be available. They always mention the service after graduation.




And they are basically saying to the recruit-——-skip that scholarship offer from Western Michigan and those other schools and other SAs like West Point , who want you , and come play for us at the USNA.

They are making what looks and sounds like an offer.

”Even with my grades coach?”

”Yes”

a coach who made that offer , got kids to act on it, and then could not deliver, assuming medical etc are all ok, would be a coach I would never advise my players or family to ever trust.

Yes it’s true they don’t make the actual appt . But that is almost a technicality. Assuming medical etc. The emphasis on almost.
 
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THParent said:
The marketing people who put those things together should be ashamed of themselves.
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The language crafting is intentional to participate on a level recruiting field with other schools. The recruit has a very specific lens and vernacular they are viewing the recruiting process through and SA have to conform to be considered. The asterisk is probably warranted with the addition of fine print, but I can see how this makes sense in this context. In general, most recruits are solid D2 players who are getting a lift into D1 by going to a SA. In my opinion, it is easier for SA Athletics to conform to the other 99% of colleges rather than complicating simple recruiting and marketing language. Are SA athletes different - sure. There are extra conditions that are not found at the other 99% of schools, but as long as those caveats are being communicated to recruits and legitimate conversations are being had in-person, I have no problem with their outward social language which is aimed at the recruit of today as well as potential recruits of tomorrow. As soon as you start slinging terms like appointment and DODMERB at many of these students, you are going to lose them because it sounds complicated (and is complicated). My assumption is that they want to ease into that discussion and not have the recruit throw up a wall of resistance early in the conversation.
 
But at this point, where the scholarship is offered…tweeted by the organization…those conversations should have already been had. I still think a small print, asterisk is warranted for this piece of announcing.

Anyhow, we converse about the “blessed to receive” social media outpourings by athletes. And my point, is that it’s ALSO part of the game nowadays. BC it’s part of the process with Navy Football. As posted. And it’s also understandable why candidates question, every year, if a ‘spot is gone bc Johnny tweeted their scholarship’. The untrained candidate would sure think so with all this stuff.

The optics of all this are confusing. At the least.
 
justdoit19 said:
But at this point, where the scholarship is offered…tweeted by the organization…those conversations should have already been had. I still think a small print, asterisk is warranted for this piece of announcing.

Anyhow, we converse about the “blessed to receive” social media outpourings by athletes. And my point, is that it’s ALSO part of the game nowadays. BC it’s part of the process with Navy Football. As posted. And it’s also understandable why candidates question, every year, if a ‘spot is gone bc Johnny tweeted their scholarship’. The untrained candidate would sure think so with all this stuff.

The optics of all this are confusing. At the least.
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Every year , hours or days after the SA coaches have extended that offer for the youngster to attend their SA or prep school , and the offer has been accepted, National recruiting mags and blogs will list that commitment to the SA for all the world to see.

At this point the student stops being recruited by other schools.

This announcement of a commitment to a SA could be a good year or more before the actual appt is awarded.

The optics——if my kid is recruited for a sport and takes a slot how does that not take a slot away from some other kid?

Seems to me as long as there is a ceiling for the number of appts for the SA or for the prep schools , slots for others are indeed being taken away when coaches make these offers..
 
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Small Team Bacsi said:
The optics——if my kid is recruited for a sport and takes a slot how does that not take a slot away from some other kid?

Seems to me as long as there is a ceiling for the number of appts for the SA or for the prep schools , slots for others are indeed being taken away when coaches make these offers..
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100% agree - there are limited seats on the bus. Each team has a reserved number of Blue Chip recruit slots. Every appointment - recruited athlete or not will take a seat from the available pool of potential appointment offers. Each year, each SA offers more appointments than are truly accepted and show up on I-day, but the number of appointments offered are based on a historic acceptance rate to achieve a particular yield for the admissions cycle.

Considering the math and real numerical limits, I do not see how it is possible for someone to NOT agree that each appointment offered impacts the pool of total potential offers. The same is true for the appointee who has multiple SA offers and does not want to reject that offer prior to I-day to give themselves "options." I contend that acceptance OR rejection of an appointment does impact the total number issued to achieve a particular yield target for the cycle. While, I would agree that acceptance or rejection does not have a 1:1 impact on appointment offers, it does have an impact.
 
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There are 5 kids who played football at my sons HS at Navy and 1 at West Point. These conversations have already been had. When an offer is made to a kid, there is about a 99% chance the kid will get an appointment. Also, 99% of the kids will either get in school or be offered a Prep Slot. I don't think the asterisk is necessary because the kids and their families are very aware of the process
 
Capt MJ said:
For any applicant who either receives one of these or observes one going to someone else, if they haven’t done their homework by reading everything at USNA.edu, asking questions in Admissions live chat or primary sources, I can see why they would think an offer of appointment was being made.
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Wow...very misleading and just plain wrong.
From a legal perspective, one could argue that is an "Offer", and all it takes is "Acceptance" to make a binding contract.
Think of it -- does the Admissons department of State U offer scholarships ? No, it comes from the Coaching Staff, Here , you have what purports to be the Coaching Staff making an offer. It would be funny if someone shows up and says "I accept"
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Wow...very misleading and just plain wrong.
From a legal perspective, one could argue that is an "Offer", and all it takes is "Acceptance" to make a binding contract.
Think of it -- does the Admissons department of State U offer scholarships ? No, it comes from the Coaching Staff, Here , you have what purports to be the Coaching Staff making an offer. It would be funny if someone shows up and says "I accept"
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I think a few are concerned about fixing a problem that does not actually exist

If it’s misleading, it’s only misleading , to those not being recruited by a SA.

the USNA and other SA coaches make it very clear that there is a process to follow before admission. These coaches can and do spend hours talking to the recruit and parents about the steps Involved if they do accept the opportunity.

absolutely no one leaves that recruiting visit thinking they have an appt.

They should leave that meeting thinking , that if they do accept the offer and do all the admissions stuff , they will get an appt.

Because getting an appt is what happens baring medical etc.
 
Hey. I watched preseason NFL football last night. Never have before. And never been so glad to see it. And the crowds. And the stadium announcer….
 
Impulsive said:
IMHO, the supposed basis behind attending an academy is that you have a desire to serve your country, and picking the academy you want (if you get it) should indicate YOUR commitment to serve in whatever capacity the service sees fit and needs you to be in.
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In theory, you are correct. Nonetheless, the academy does allow midshipmen to list their preferences and usually complies with those preferences provided the midshipman qualifies for what they are preferencing and certain quotas are met. The Navy doesn't simply assign a midshipman to the community that serves the Navy the best. There is an understanding that people usually do best when they follow their passion and interests. I'm sure there are midshipmen who the Navy would love to have in the submarine community who end up going aviation. There are probably midshipmen who would be great Marines - have proven that they would be a perfect fit - but who do not enter the Marine Corps - why? - because they don't want to be a Marine! And, the Marines don't want an officer who doesn't want to be a Marine.

It's a little naive to believe that people will be at their best when doing a job that they really don't want to do. It's even more naive to believe that all midshipmen should equally want to do anything to which the Navy assigns them. That simply defies human nature.
 
Small Team Bacsi said:
I think a few are concerned about fixing a problem that does not actually exist

If it’s misleading, it’s only misleading , to those not being recruited by a SA.

the USNA and other SA coaches make it very clear that there is a process to follow before admission. These coaches can and do spend hours talking to the recruit and parents about the steps Involved if they do accept the opportunity.

absolutely no one leaves that recruiting visit thinking they have an appt.

They should leave that meeting thinking , that if they do accept the offer and do all the admissions stuff , they will get an appt.

Because getting an appt is what happens baring medical etc.
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This is correct. The coaches make it very clear to the recruits what is required. And if a recruit doesn’t get a nom, the coaches have discretionary ones they can use on kids, although it’s not an unlimited number and some may get left out in the cold.
 
Coaches don’t have discretionary nominations and it was put out to BGOs during training that the Supe doesn’t give, on average, more than about 3 nominations per year and not all of those went to athletes.
 
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