Ethics Question

[LineInTheSand]

Here's an interesting debate to have. This was in the Bulletin and I'm surprised it didn't generate more conversation.

A member of the CGA class of 1979 was inducted into the CGA Athletic Hall of Fame. While I was a cadet he was a coach of the women's basketball team at CGA. He was also with the athletic association. After years of wearing two hats, with the athletic department and athletic association, he was investigated for embezzlement and admitted to stealing millions. He was a big time roller at the local casino. One day he parked behind Roland Hall, and shot and killed himself in his car. Some estimates put the embezzled funds at around $5 million. They (the Coast Guard Academy) couldn't account for all of the funds.

This individual is still in the Coast Guard Academy Athletic Hall of Fame. A guy who stole millions from the very athletic programs he claimed to support and represent. He is HONORED still... he was a good basketball player, sure. But I think you give up that place once you embezzle from your school and association.

The Coast Guard and Coast Guard Academy were surprisingly silent on the issue and the dialogue in the Bulletin's letters to the editor were short-lived.

 

[Bash On]

I note the bylaws of the Hall of Fame have the following:
"All selected members shall be leaders of character and reflect the core values of the Coast Guard during and after their careers."
I also note (quick read) there is no provision to remove members once selected. Perhaps a bylaws change is warranted?

 

[StPaulDad]

Maybe not a question for this group so much as Life After the Academy or Off Topic?

Edit: I'd probably pull down the plaque. Hall of Fame institutions are as much about educating the young about history as honoring the worthy.

 

[LineInTheSand]

I note the bylaws of the Hall of Fame have the following:
"All selected members shall be leaders of character and reflect the core values of the Coast Guard during and after their careers."
I also note (quick read) there is no provision to remove members once selected. Perhaps a bylaws change is warranted?

They're looking into a process for removal. This also comes down to a "good ole boy" mentality, at some level, with a close service allowing something to remain, and avoid upsetting the status quo or classmates. Of course, no one from the class of 1979 is in a position of power within the Coast Guard, so it's not so much protection from classmates specifically. I do know this has been an embarrassment for some staff at CGA.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Maybe not a question for this group so much as Life After the Academy or Off Topic?

Edit: I'd probably pull down the plaque. Hall of Fame institutions are as much about educating the young about history as honoring the worthy.

Possibly, although CGA is honoring an embezzler while demanding cadets follow an honor concept. It's hard to reconcile honoring someone who stole from the school while also trumpeting the importance of honor.

 

[trackandfield08]

We could get in a whole conversation about the necessity of the Otto Graham Hall of Athletic Excellence that now takes up a large part of upper Billard but I suppose that's besides the point...

It didn't take too much research via Google to recall this incident, and there are certainly plenty of articles that covered his suicide. Surprisingly (although maybe not), it took a little more digging to find articles regarding the embezzlement...and I was even able to find an article that talked about some derogatory comments he made while giving a speech at CGA in the 90s.

For those charges and those comments, he absolutely should be removed from the Hall of Fame. If they choose to retain him, then the perception becomes that athletic performance is valued over character - which goes against the CGA mantra of developing "Leaders of Character." I certainly emphasize with him family, and it is sad to see someone driven so deep into themselves that suicide becomes their choice, but he made several poor decisions that should not be honored. If anything, I wish the story was a little more public and included in Core Values training at CGA. It also makes me question his performance as an officer. Are these two charges the only two major blemishes throughout his life, or were there more skeletons that were buried at one time or another?

This story is absolutely an embarrassment to CGA, but the proper response is to address it directly and show that they will not tolerate behavior such as his, regardless of the positive contributions he made to CGA and the Coast Guard. By avoiding, or not fully addressing, the situation, all it does is further that level of embarrassment. It also does nothing to quell the occasional perception that athletes (especially certain sports) are valued over non-athletes. It's not a big gap, like at the Big 3 SAs, but I think there is a little bit of that environment at times.

All that being said, it is heartening to hear that there is research being done exploring a removal process, although hindsight says all ground should have been covered when establishing the by laws.

 

[LineInTheSand]

And we're not talking a small amount of money, some estimates have it at $5 million.

 

[Humey]

This is an interesting topic because this issue has been discussed in all areas of sports. There are plenty of baseball hall of famers who were nasty individuals. They may never have gone to jail but they were terrible people. Now there is a difference between athletic sports at a college or an academy and professional sports, so i get that. However, do we separate the achievements one has as an athlete and the person itself or do review the whole person when honoring someone for their althettic prowess. . I dont know if USC has pulled down OJ Simpons awards and achievement from their facilities, but whatever he did later in life doesnt change what he did when he played for USC. I realize USC isnt an academy and I dont know what the asnwer is. I mean if you are the worldest greatest athlete in one field, creating a record that no one has beaten in 40 years, do you take down their jersey or kick them out of hall of fame because they did something really wrong later on in life that had nothing to do with sports. Does the crime they commit take away from the greatness they had achieve. I get if you win an award for being a humanitarian and then run over a child, you are probably going to lose the award, but doing something that has nothing to do with sports is another thing.

 

[StPaulDad]

The thing about an individual sport's Hall of Fame, like in baseball's in Cooperstown, is that it merely stands for achievement in that sport. There is a character clause, but it's mostly based in baseball sins like gambling on the game or (more recently) steroid abuse that messes up the record book. But there are all sorts of other low lifes in there: racists, alcoholics, convicted drug users, even guys suspended by baseball. (Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle were both suspended for appearances on behalf of casinos. Paul Molitor was busted in the cocaine scandals of the mid-80s. Likely enshrinee George Steinbrenner was suspended once for paying for info to discredit a player.) Obvious slam dunk players like Pete Rose (all time leader in hits), Barry Bonds (single-season and all time HR leader), Roger Clemens (7 Cy Young, 354 wins) and others are on the outside looking in because they messed with baseball's "important" rules.

The HoF of a school, on the other hand, is not so narrowly focussed. There's more being represented by the HoF at USCGA than simple athletic achievement, and players honored by the institution must reflect the values of the academy. As great a player as Molitor was, for example, as great a guy he is today, he'd never have graduated with that drug bust. Rube Waddell was described as having "the intellectual and emotional maturity of a child." Ty Cobb was an awful person: frequently fighting with players and fans, once going into the crowd to beat up a heckler who was missing a hand and a foot, and even killing a man who mugged him one night in Detroit. People who want to be honored have to be worthy of the whole place, not just the field or the court. Stealing while in a position of trust is not the mark of a leader to be respected, and revoking this honor reinforces the idea that such accolades have to be earned every day, year after year.

 

[Bash On]

Stealing while in a position of trust is not the mark of a leader to be respected, and revoking this honor reinforces the idea that such accolades have to be earned every day, year after year.

Agree. See my post above concerning the HoF bylaws and "leaders of character" and "reflecting core values" requirements. The "nothing to do with sports" argument mentioned in another post simply has no relevance in this instance.

 

[nature boy]

Charges are not a conviction, an apology is not a conviction, an admission of guilt outside a courtroom is not a conviction, a confession is not a conviction. There's countless examples of people who have made admissions of guilt under questioning, then plead innocent and end up being found not guilty at trial-sometimes on a technicality, or they were coerced into confessing but end up not guilty none the less.

The HoF's bylaw that "shall be leaders of character and reflect the core values of the Coast Guard during and after their careers" would that apply to men or women who cheated on their spouses, during or after their CG career?
Is embezzling more morally (not criminally) wrong than marital infidelity; as it relates to core values (core values of honor, respect and devotion to duty ) and leaders of character?
Is a CG HofF member with a speeding ticket respectful of our roadway laws?
How about a guy whose wife gets a PFA against him and then 11 years later she admits it was all a lie for leverage in a custody and divorce case; would he get his HoF plaque put back in?

Now all that said, I would agree that they should put something in the bylaws moving forward. On the flip side it would be a bad precedent to apply it retroactively , specifically because with today's cancel culture and virtue signaling folks they could decide boxers or wrestlers were cruel to inflict pain on their opponents and want to get rid of all the boxers in the HofF or some other off the wall notion they conjure up when commiserating with each other and trying to find ways to feel better about themselves.
Reminds me of what my grandfather says, you can't make your star brighter, by dimming someone else's star.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Charges are not a conviction, an apology is not a conviction, an admission of guilt outside a courtroom is not a conviction, a confession is not a conviction. There's countless examples of people who have made admissions of guilt under questioning, then plead innocent and end up being found not guilty at trial-sometimes on a technicality, or they were coerced into confessing but end up not guilty none the less.

The HoF's bylaw that "shall be leaders of character and reflect the core values of the Coast Guard during and after their careers" would that apply to men or women who cheated on their spouses, during or after their CG career?
Is embezzling more morally (not criminally) wrong than marital infidelity; as it relates to core values (core values of honor, respect and devotion to duty ) and leaders of character?
Is a CG HofF member with a speeding ticket respectful of our roadway laws?
How about a guy whose wife gets a PFA against him and then 11 years later she admits it was all a lie for leverage in a custody and divorce case; would he get his HoF plaque put back in?

Now all that said, I would agree that they should put something in the bylaws moving forward. On the flip side it would be a bad precedent to apply it retroactively , specifically because with today's cancel culture and virtue signaling folks they could decide boxers or wrestlers were cruel to inflict pain on their opponents and want to get rid of all the boxers in the HofF or some other off the wall notion they conjure up when commiserating with each other and trying to find ways to feel better about themselves.
Reminds me of what my grandfather says, you can't make your star brighter, by dimming someone else's star.

He admitted to it, and then shot himself behind Roland Hall at the Coast Guard Academy.

The bylaws specific mention character... and as senior leaders in the Alumni Association, CGA Athletic Association, and the Coast Guard will tell you, the "character aspect" was also a more prominent aspect of the past inductees (including this individual).

This individual was not caught stealing cable, or cheating on a test. He stole around $5 million from the athletic program over a decade, to pay for his big roller whale status at a local casino. There's no question it was illegal. There's no question he did it, he admitted it once he was cooked. The only question is, if he violated federal laws, betrayed his school, his employer, and his association, why is he honored? Not "why is he acknowledged for his service." WHY is he HONORED?

And if he's honored by the Coast Guard Academy and Alumni Association, then who really cares about those "hallowed" words on the floor of Chase Hall "Who Lives Here Reveres Honor"? Rip up that floor and put a little trophy case in Chase Hall, so the cadets can know what the institution cares about. But PLEASE, do not tell me its honor... not now.