Exhausted Doolie Parent

Old Enlisted Marine said:
I have been lurking for sometime now (about 2 years, I know its creepy) and this forum has provided some very good advise. So good, I now have a Plebe at USNA. I had him take the lead on this adventure as it is his. I just used this tool as a fact checker to what he has told me to provide the proper support. I'm not into social media at all but find myself checking in here daily. This post has however pulled me out from lurking. I just felt the need to send some good thoughts your way and say STAY MOTIVATED to both of you. She can do this IF she wants it. If she has the desire to serve she will overcome! Move forward, never away from and have a plan. I apologize if any of this comes across the wrong way, it is ALL sent with positive support.
Click to expand...
Welcome Aboard, Marine
 
@HOPE0204 , what about bring back some of her Application Team? Are any of her teachers, GC, coaches, friends, or family back home ideal people to give her a call? I was thinking what i'd do...two people in particular would be her AP Phys teacher, who is a USAFA grad himself, and her JROTC instructors, who are 100% supportive. Her swim coach is the both supportive and a nurturing type. My sister is the voice of reason and an MD, and my brother - big reveal - is a BGO and gave her lots of not-sugar-coated advice along the way about the tough times, particularly about the yelling and unwanted upperclass attention, lining up 3 times a day, and having a huge list of EI. For all those that supported her, i'm sure they would be very happy to give her a call and support now.

There is also the option of the Snap-Out-Of-It speech, please don't flame me for suggesting it.

Be the Budda. This was something me and DD talked about as her coping strategy in the midst of all the yelling. I actually got this from my DH, who's instructions on how to handle a deposition - Be the Budda. You have all day. Keep calm. Only answer what is asked. No emotions. And for DD, have an out of body experience and watch them yelling at you. It's not personal. Think about what you would do in 2 years, having to do the same to new Doolies. We discussed visualizing her AP Phys teacher standing next to her, but she said that would only make her laugh, thinking of him 40 years younger and as a fellow Doolie....

Feel free to PM me anytime, and i'll give you my unfiltered version and tell you some jokes. Hang in there! The good news is she is taking active steps that will help her get centered.
 
Question. Is there a place where she can go a just scream? Sounds crazy but it's something my fellow preps do if we mess up on vocab, or get upset with our mile times.

Another thing. I call it an "off-day" it's where I say alright this whole do "everything needs to be perfect today" isn't working. So you know what I'm allowed to make 4 mistakes on the test. I don't try to and that's key. I still try my best, but if I mess up? Nope that was totally planned and time to moving on, because I allowed that room for failure. It's something I should allow anyway but I'm not like that.

I do it with my teammates too. If they do something that causes pushups for the whole group but they're really trying not to? "Hey those pushups were planned in... What do you mean it was an accident no no you see those were already in the schedule. Yes they were. Yes...yes....yes. they. Were." It's a mental thing. Not letting them put all the blame on themselves. Helps keep up moral and realize we can't be perfect.

You can do something a thousand times and still not get it. It's frustrating as heck, but the one time you allow your self to look at that mistake and accept it, honestly accept it. It becomes much easier to do it another thousand times.

I'm not at USAFA, I'm at a prep school getting my butt kick because my study habits need to improve. It's frustrating knowing I'm so close but not enough. <--- that's not the end of the sentence though. I'm not enough ( yet).

Good luck to her. Mental battles are the hardest but she's strong.
 
Our daughter is a C3C and I can say this year is much better for her than last year. We got those same phone calls last year. My wife was her sounding board and I do feel this was greatly needed for our cadet. It was not about the academics but more about the restrictions and how hard it was to meet new friends. Her host family was concerned about COVID so that did not work out, she got along with her roommate but they really were not friends, they were just roommates. She joined a competitive club and that is were her friend group has developed from. After recognition life got much better. I can only say for her she focused on not today but what opportunities she would have by staying. She still has to do that but speaks often now about the future and what opportunities she has.
 
My DD is a plebe at USNA, I guess experience is same across the academies.

She was told in very simple straightforward words that she should quit, she is not cut out for this, does not have aptitude every single day over the plebe summer. DD would cry, write sob stories in her letters. I won’t lie if I say there were times when I wanted to tell her to come back home and forget about it. We all knew that she lacked the physical strength, but made up that weakness with a strong mind.

Fast forward, she loves the tough detailers ( for sure not during ps) and putting her best foot forward in the academic year. I would love to say that things are rosy now, but no she has her fair share of struggles. I guess the plebe year is designed like that.

Wishing your DD the best in her endeavors and in finding her inner strength.
 
I currently have a plebe at USMA. Before he left, we had often talked strategy about how to make it through the plebe year. A lot of it is a game. The main way to win the game is not to quit. I would guess that most of the mental stuff is just for effect to see who really wants to be there, and to weed out those who are there for other reasons (parents desires, prestige, etc.).

If my son were having the same issues as the OP is describing, I might ask him a few questions, especially, “Why are you there?” Or perhaps, “Why are you still there?” I would like to hear his response be something to the effect that his overarching goal is to serve his country as a military officer, and he will do whatever it takes and put up with whatever they make him go through in order to accomplish that goal. One time we watched a documentary about Navy SEAL training. One of the men interviewed said he made a decision before he started, that whatever happened to him during the training, he wouldn’t quit. If they wanted him to leave, they would have to throw him out. (He made it through successfully.) We thought his attitude was a great model for one to have going into a service academy.

On the other hand, if I asked my son why he was there and he gave different answers, I might start to doubt that it was the right place for him. For instance, if he were mainly worrying that quitting the academy would let his parents down, or that he would be too embarrassed to face his hometown friends if he quit, or that he was too prideful to admit he made a mistake when he decided to go there, then I might encourage him to leave. It would be better for him to revise his course early than continue to plod down the wrong road.
 
One time we watched a documentary about Navy SEAL training. One of the men interviewed said he made a decision before he started, that whatever happened to him during the training, he wouldn’t quit. If they wanted him to leave, they would have to throw him out. (He made it through successfully.) We thought his attitude was a great model for one to have going into a service academy.
Click to expand...
Yep. If you know it's your goal, this is a good attitude.
 
@HOPE0204 - Two weeks have passed since your initial posting. I have been thinking about your daughter a lot during that time and have been hoping to see an update that things have turned a corner (or maybe at least taken a gentle curve for the better!) for her. Are you able to provide any updates? It's so hard to think of our children struggling, especially when they are far away. I guess students and parents alike need to view this as a growth opportunity. My son is at the Coast Guard Academy and has been doing well as far as I know. Even so, I am thrilled to know I will be able to see him in person in just a few days when I'm out there for parents weekend.
 
txfwindian said:
My DD is a plebe at USNA, I guess experience is same across the academies.

She was told in very simple straightforward words that she should quit, she is not cut out for this, does not have aptitude every single day over the plebe summer. DD would cry, write sob stories in her letters. I won’t lie if I say there were times when I wanted to tell her to come back home and forget about it. We all knew that she lacked the physical strength, but made up that weakness with a strong mind.

Fast forward, she loves the tough detailers ( for sure not during ps) and putting her best foot forward in the academic year. I would love to say that things are rosy now, but no she has her fair share of struggles. I guess the plebe year is designed like that.

Wishing your DD the best in her endeavors and in finding her inner strength.
Click to expand...
Who was telling her this?
 
Long time lurker, first time poster.

Just want to comment on this thread, as I think I might be in a unique position in regard to this topic.

My DS is currently a 2025 at the USAFA, and I work as a contractor for one of the service academy. Due to where I work, I have an opportunity to talk to lots of recent graduates from all the service academies, not to mention different branches of the service.. Therefore; I have an opportunity to prepare my DS mentally on what to expect once he enters.

Now, because I am not part of the faculty and I do not wear the uniform, lots of students treats me as a regular person and feel “freer” to talk to me. I used to work the night shift and my office was on the fringe of the campus, which sometimes turn my office into an unofficial “hangout”. Both my partner and I heard “stories” from the students, we mainly just listened and only offered our opinion/advice when asked. I have students that came in and cried in the room, some came in to catch a quick nap and some that just wanted to come in and decompress or just talk. ( All these stopped after they moved my office to a more central location where there are constant foot traffic with the faculty and uniform ).

Every year, I heard pretty much the same story from the first year students. Majority were just not prepared mentally to handle the situation/environment. They are away from their family and close friends for the first time in their life. When they have to get up early in the morning and prepare for the morning assembly and found out that their friends attending regular college just came back from an all-night party and going to bed now, gotta admit, it’s a bit rough. Instead of going out to a movie on weekend, they have to stay on the academy ground; again, some are not prepared for this.

Since I handled/processed roughly 90% of the dis-enrolled students. Other than those due to academic, behavioral or medical/physical issues (when they wanted to talk about it, I never ask). Most left because they never wanted to attend the academy in the first place, they were here due to their parents. Just food for thoughts for any parents of future academy candidates reading this. Some found out this is not what they wanted after they got here, no shame in that either, IMHO.

Basically, this is what I told every single one that came into my office, if you tough it out and graduate, in 10, 20 years and you look back, and if this is the roughest stretch of your life. Consider yourself lucky.
 
lipton_hot_tea said:
Who was telling her this?
Click to expand...
According to her letters, every single detailer she had in the first batch. And on top of that, her company mates didn’t think a lot of her and really wanted her out. You see since she was physically the weakest, she was the target. So if there was a punishment or “drop”, she was the reason in her first 3 weeks. This is all according to her letters.

I am glad she could resist and be mentally strong. She did tell us that letters she wrote were kind of therapy..
 
txfwindian said:
You see since she was physically the weakest, she was the target. So if there was a punishment or “drop”, she was the reason in her first 3 weeks.
Click to expand...
Fitness isn't an easy fix, but it is a straightforward issue, and one the military is quite good at.

You can't lead very well if you can't even keep up with those you are supposed to lead.
 
My recommendation would be for her to do a set of push-ups and sit-ups first thing in the morning, around lunch time, and in the evening. There should be some pull-up bars in the stairwells. Use them at least once a day. Go for a 20-40min run at least 3x per week. If she does those, she should see good progress within a month or two. After that, it's important to keep a routine going. If you don't have good fitness habits, it is very easy to fall back into doing too little. (PT was my biggest struggle there.)
 
raimius said:
My recommendation would be for her to do a set of push-ups and sit-ups first thing in the morning, around lunch time, and in the evening. There should be some pull-up bars in the stairwells. Use them at least once a day. Go for a 20-40min run at least 3x per week. If she does those, she should see good progress within a month or two. After that, it's important to keep a routine going. If you don't have good fitness habits, it is very easy to fall back into doing too little. (PT was my biggest struggle there.)
Click to expand...
Thank you for the recommendation. She is working out on a regular basis and on track to pass her first PRT successfully in a couple of weeks.
 
Allectus said:
I am just a parent. I never served in the military and I never attended a service academy. I am also not a doctor or psychologist. I do have one son at a service academy and one son at a highly ranked liberal arts college. My son at the liberal arts college suffers from anxiety disorder and atypical bi-polar disorder with depressive symptoms most prevalent. He has struggled to complete semesters and has had to take personal leave to deal with his mental health on more than one occasion. I can relate to your concerns about your daughter.

First, there is no shame in determining that a service academy is not a good fit, and seeking other paths.
Second, given the symptoms your child has experienced I would seek out contact with the service academy equivalent of the dean to express concerns and try to ensure your daughter receives appropriate assistance with her mental health. This to me seems more than just a helicopter parent or a homesick plebe.

I wish you well.
Click to expand...
Thank you @Allectus. I appreciate the advice :).
 
Capt MJ said:
Offering feedback from another perspective, generations of service academy graduates have noted their experiences in the pressure cooker of that first summer and first year, where they seemed to be failing at every turn, where nothing seems good enough, where everything seems hopeless, where they realized their weaknesses, where the pressure and chaos and churning gut seem never-ending - THIS is what enabled them to be in the moment and function well, to recall training, to think in multiple levels, to assess complex situations with laser focus, to compartmentalize unneeded fears and emotions, to live to fight another day, to break out the grit and bear down and get through - in real-life situations with the wailing of multiple alarms in a cockpit, leading people in combat zones, going in harm’s way, enduring tough days and dynamic situations that can occur in a wide range of “routine” and not-so-routine duties. Long sentence, one theme: there is a “why” to this experience, and knowing it is often critical to getting oneself through it.

Offering your DD something to skim through in about 10-15 minutes, if she can squeeze them out. VADM Stockdale clarified in his own mind, essentially, he was in control of how he felt about things. His captors were not in control of his mood or perspective or sense of self-worth. There were many things he could not control, so he decided there was nothing he could do about those. He remained in charge of his own thoughts and feelings.

For your DD, learning how to coach herself out of a slide, setting aside things/people she can’t control and how she has made herself feel about them and just pressing on, learning to get help from any quarter, and focusing on things she can actually control - these are the life skills to build on, so when the poop really hits the fan in a real-life situation, she will be ready. She holds all the keys to solving this.
Can your DD learn to be the master of her fate?

Equally, there is no shame in finding out, after giving it her best shot, she is not suited for this life. Whatever she may have thought of “service,” in terms of assumptions and expectations, may have not been at all the reality she has experienced, nor what she is prepared or suited for. I always said the Navy made me into a “recovering perfectionist.” I learned to let go of the small things, accept not everything would go according to plan, grow a thick skin, accept that chaos would occasionally be the norm and pressure near unbearable. It is truly not for everyone, and that is okay. Let her figure it out.
Click to expand...
@Capt MJ Thank you, thank you for your comments. They are really amazing and so true! Harnessing our own inner critic and getting control of the mental aspects are crucial to anyone functioning our our world, let alone an SA! I love the Stockdale info! With much gratitude.
 
Skipper07 said:
Oh, boy. I'd like to retract my statement. I believe I have actually read both documents that @Capt MJ posted for class. Perhaps I should start thinking before I post here.

OP, although not quite what VADM Stockdale faced, your daughters struggles are very real-- especially to her. Plebe year often feels like the black pit, the night, horrors of the shade, or the punishment charged scroll. When you're living it, it seems like nothing can be worse. Struggling through it is a rather large step towards building the fortitude and grit necessary to be an effective officer. VADM Stockdale actually credited his ability to survive the Hanoi Hilton to enduring plebe year.
Click to expand...
@Skipper07 I try to remind her that they are all in a pit of despair! Doolie year is no joke....actually Doolie time until Rec then it gets better or so I hear.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top