Experimented with Marijuana after Appointment (What Will Happen?)

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Doos, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    I think Doos is trolling. 1 post, and silence since they started the thread four days ago. Someone that creates a thread IMPO and than never responds as they are being slayed typically will come back and defend or ask more directed questions than vague ones.
     
  2. hornetguy

    hornetguy 10-Year Member

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    Well, I'm certainly glad that admissions is staffed with experienced and mature adults instead of a board of high schoolers with 'harsh opinions' and snap judgements.
     
  3. TheGrandInquisitor

    TheGrandInquisitor Member

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    And I am certainly glad that admissions is staffed with well-educated adults who know how to use quotations properly instead of adults who fabricate quotes and quote things that were never said.
     
  4. aglages

    aglages 5-Year Member

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    Some posters are becoming as harsh and judgmental with their opinions as those posters that they are criticizing.
     
  5. bandpman

    bandpman Member

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    Guys, come on. Between you are 4,000+ posts. That's a boatload of knowledge. This is clearly a troll, so you are arguing about a nonexistent, hypothetical situation that was posted just to start arguments. I've learned so much from both of you in the last 2 years....
     
  6. aglages

    aglages 5-Year Member

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    The voice of reason.
    I have tremendous respect for hornetguy and his knowledge and experience. Unfortunately ALL of us occasionally get too emotional over some topics. I should have been more tactful in pointing that out to him. Sorry.
     
  7. Dad

    Dad 5-Year Member

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    Just sayin'

    You do realize that 'Doos' backwards is 'Sood'. :wink:
     
  8. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe 5-Year Member

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    Hope you never find yourself under Hornet's command.

    What the heck are you trying to say in reference to quotes, didn't make a lot of sense.
     
  9. mja2014

    mja2014 Member

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    True, but anyone who may be in a similar situation may find fret advice from this.


    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  10. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    Well. After a few days, I have to stand corrected. My wife had a long talk with me and correctly pointed out that I was wrong.
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    Lemon Meringue Pie ISN'T my favorite...... It's Boston Cream !!!!!!
    [​IMG]
     
  11. TheGrandInquisitor

    TheGrandInquisitor Member

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    'didn't make a lot of sense.' <--- that right there is a quote because i put quotations directly around something that you stated. Hornet didn't use quotations properly becuase I never actually said "harsh opinions" directly. I was just being a grammar nazi because i couldn't think of a better comeback :yllol:

    And don't worry. Hornet will never command me.
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    Maybe Hornet was quoting "Himself" from a prior statement. Or maybe he used quotation marks as a form of "Emphasis". Notice my use of the quotation marks.

    You can disagree if you'd like, but what makes the use of a language proper, is what is considered acceptable. Not necessarily what your teacher told you. And that my friend is the biggest problem with "Formal Education". The belief that everything is black & white. That everything is either right or wrong. Well, the truth is, in language, there can be many correct usages which can actually conflict. Take the word "Gay". It didn't mean the same thing 50 years ago as it does today. Same with many words such as punk, bi*tch, etc... The whole "Political Correctness" world has had a major affect on that too.

    If you're with your peers, it's not uncommon to use slang. Words such as "ain't". Or the many curse words known in our language. Does that mean that the individuals are not using proper grammar? Not at all. (Unless you're some anal teacher or school bureaucrat who holds on to archaic ideas and beliefs.) The use of aint, and many of the 4 letter words not allowed on the forum, is quite "acceptable" forms of communications. (For that environment). The rules change when you're speaking to your parents. Or during a job interview. Or litigating a court case.

    Bottom line is: "if it's acceptable use of the english language by the masses in a particular forum; then it's acceptable". And in common usage, many punctuations have more than one purpose. Such as quotation marks being used to "Emphasize" a word. Unless of course you're that "Anal" teacher or school administrator who has little experience in the "Real World" and believes everything in life is black/white or wrong/right.
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    It takes a big man to admit he was wrong, especially to his wife. :biggrin:
     
  14. Wild Blue Yonder

    Wild Blue Yonder 5-Year Member

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    Speaking of Boston, "THE Marathon" is this Monday. Team USAFA has fielded a team again this year with a couple of real speedsters in the group!

    Please take a moment and cheer them on.
     
  15. annalis

    annalis Member

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    Your appointment will go to someone who wanted to be at Academy enough that they stayed away from making those decisions :thumbdown:
     
  16. hornetguy

    hornetguy 10-Year Member

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    Having someone in high school imply I'm not well-educated gives me a great laugh. Thanks for that. Also, IF you are commissioned into the AF, you very well may have me as your commander one day - I have an 8 year head start on you.

    Aglages, I get emotional about this because it falls under a general topic of mistakes and screw-ups that people make. Replace marijuana with honor violations (such as lying or cheating), breaking bones in high risk activities prior to entering Basic, and any kind of risky behavior that doesn't necessarily indicate a pattern of behavior or moral failing.

    Why do I get heated about this? In my short time in the AF (4 years USAFA, 4 years commissioned), I have seen a great many people make big mistakes. I've seen many given a second chance and I've seen too many given no chance for equal or lesser mistakes. Of those I've seen given a second chance, the majority learned an important lesson, become pretty awesome mentors for others who have made their screw-ups, and have become amazing officers. Part of what makes them such great officers and mentors today is the learning experience of admitting to their mistake and taking the effort to make it right. Then I saw too many who made a big mistake that was not part of a pattern of behavior given no chance and booted without much thought. Personally, I haven't made any big mistakes that fall in those categories, but I shy from risk more than I should and personally think the risk-averse behavior it breeds may make me a less effective officer. I don't think making poor choices should be encouraged, but when the AF as an institution becomes so risk-averse, we miss many opportunities to correct mistakes and learn from them. I'm of the belief that taking risks is absolutely necessary to learn and improve and fostering an environment where its one strike and you're out causes stagnation. And encouraging positive risk comes with the, well, risk of poor choices.

    The bottom line I'm trying to make is, absent a clear pattern of poor behavior, a single event shouldn't be grounds to morally eviscerate and individual or make the immediate judgment of unworthiness (a message that keeps popping up in this long thread). I read a lot of research books in my spare time on behavioral economics, behavioral theory, and similar topics. While I have plenty of anecdotes I alluded to above, there is a lot of research on human behavior that runs counter to much of our assumptions (peer pressure is a big one) that has made me less quick to make a snap decision about a person like admitting to using recreational drugs or engaging in high risk activities. I do snap at people I think do that, hence my hot-headedness in other posts.

    So, it really bothers me and makes me hot-headed to see posters come on here and say someone is unworthy of an appointment or being in the AF for smoking a joint when they should have exercised better judgment. And it doesn't matter to me if the OP is a troll, I'm responding to everyone else who has weighed in because it's important for future candidates to know that the officer corps isn't filled with a perfect cadre of saints who view mistakes as evidence of failure. Nowadays the AF is looking for any excuse to eliminate people or further stratify shrinking pools of opportunities. I, personally, think it's a mistake to make one of the criteria any sort of misbehavior (again, that isn't a pattern) a basis to eliminate. Ask me over a beer for a more in-depth discussion as I'd like to spare any more long-windedness from me on the forum. In the past, marijuana use alone was not grounds for elimination and people could be honest and atone. That is not the case right now for the reasons above and it saddens me that USAFA and the AF is looking for only shiny pennies when sometimes the tarnished one is better for the wear.
     
  17. Bullet

    Bullet 10-Year Member

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    Not a big man, just a SMART one! :biggrin:

    Love ya, Pima!
     
  18. BR2011

    BR2011 10-Year Member

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    I'll second Hornet. Anyone that's actually been through an Academy knows that cadets are people and not necessarily the shiny images of perfection that are on the Academy brochures. Everyone I knew at CGA had done something that could have easily gotten them kicked out at some point. Some got caught, some didn't but everyone (*most) learned a lesson.

    I will throw in one caveat though. In most cases people don't get caught the first time they do something, especially with alcohol. It's usually a regular behavior that they try and pass off as a single mistake because they've only been caught the one time.
     
  19. raimius

    raimius 10-Year Member

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    Let's be clear, breaches of integrity ARE moral failings. They may not constitute a pattern, but they are what they are.

    I've been given second chances before, and I am VERY thankful for them! There are some decisions and actions that the AF generally will not give second chances for. We can (and should) review and debate the worth of those "zero tolerance" policies from time to time. We like to say that leaders should exercise sound judgement, but we don't always let that happen.

    The AF has problems, and management is choosing to pick off the "low-hanging fruit" much of the time. I agree with Hornet that this is causing a host of issues with risk aversion and "zero defect" mentalities that discard potential risk in favor of marginally effective solutions. The only advice I can offer is to be careful that you don't make yourself that "low-hanging fruit" and try to learn and figure out better ways to do things in the future.

    As far as making mistakes career-wise, doing drugs is pretty much akin to standing in front of a target on the firing range and painting a bullseye on your chest.
     
  20. Enlisted_Programmer

    Enlisted_Programmer What's your role? Air Control! 5-Year Member

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    I can agree, and have seen those who are greater officers who often share their story of their life-changing mistake. It's what you do after your mistake that shows others how much you care that you were given a second chance. The best effect comes from catching it early, and changing early JMPO