Fighter/Bomber vs Tanker/Cargo Track

Wasn't really sure who would answer this first Bullet or Fleiger, but knew the answer would be forthcoming. It is good to have goals and dreams. Press on with them, but always know it is a long road from that high school classroom just to graduating the Academy. Then there is the roadblock of pilot training. A lot of things can and will happen between now and then.
 
I remember when my son first hit the altitude chamber at the academy. One of the guys he knew that always talked about flying; "Barely" made it through the chamber. Without anyone saying anything, the guy "Jokingly" (Yet, seriously) said; "Damn, I might have to see what other jobs there are. I don't feel too good". He survived, and is doing well. But that was just a taste of training. Some people get into soaring and the first time they've ever been in a plane, they have second thoughts. Most boys (And some girls); had at least one fantasy while growing up of being a fighter pilot. My equilibrium never would have allowed me to do it. As a gymnast, I could do LITERALLY ANYTHING as long as it was FORWARD. But I couldn't even do a simple back handspring because I'd lose my balance and direction. So just do your best. Keep your dreams alive. And at the end of your sophmore (c3) year; then you can figure out what it is you want to be when you grow up. In the mean time, keep dreaming and reaching for the stars. It's fun and great motivation. Just be ready for a reality check in a couple of years. For some, it will be exactly what you wanted coming in. For others, you will simply change your mind. (A young person changing their mind; what a concept). Yes, all of us old farts changed our minds a lot. Hey; I changed my mind and turned down a "Given" assignment to Hawaii (Wheeler); and instead chose to go to Bergstrom AFB, Austin Texas. Go figure!!! Best of luck... mike......
 
First off ryan, we're glad your here, it shows your dedication and desire. Like the old adage says: there are NO stupid questions. Ask away, we'll be glad to help in any way we can.

That being said, here is a pretty good link from another forum that explains the UPT process.

http://www.baseops.net/militarypilot/

On the bottom of the page, you'll also see a link to Seymour Johnson AFB, which details the transition course students fresh out of UPT will go through.

Bottom line to your question. Once you graduate from the Academy and you are on the the "pilot track", you start a hectic two years of training, to include a LOT of TDYs (going for a week or two to one location for different types of training) and PCS moves (going for months at a time for the longer training phases). Figure a year for UPT, with two separate phases (and possible moves for each). Right after that, you may have a week or two off waiting for the next available slot in either land survival training and water survival training (two different locations), and Centriguge training (required if you are going to fly fighters). Each one is a week or two.

You'll then be sent to your Transition Course for your particular airframe. Most of these courses are about 9 months long (depending on airframe) for students fresh out of UPT or UNT. The first few weeks are academics (getting to know each and every system in your jet in excrutiating detail), and simulator rides (getting to know how to WORK the systems in your jet). You can expect your first sortie within 3 to 4 weeks of your class start date, then to flyat least twice a week or more after that, all the while still doing acadmeics everyday and more simulator rides.

So, if you do get that F-22, you can expect to be flying in one within a couple of months from your UPT graduation date. And guess what? You'll still most likely will be a 2nd Lt when that happens! And don't call me Shirley... :thumb:
 
Bullet said:
First off ryan, we're glad your here, it shows your dedication and desire. Like the old adage says: there are NO stupid questions. Ask away, we'll be glad to help in any way we can.

That being said, here is a pretty good link from another forum that explains the UPT process.

http://www.baseops.net/militarypilot/

On the bottom of the page, you'll also see a link to Seymour Johnson AFB, which details the transition course students fresh out of UPT will go through.

Bottom line to your question. Once you graduate from the Academy and you are on the the "pilot track", you start a hectic two years of training, to include a LOT of TDYs (going for a week or two to one location for different types of training) and PCS moves (going for months at a time for the longer training phases). Figure a year for UPT, with two separate phases (and possible moves for each). Right after that, you may have a week or two off waiting for the next available slot in either land survival training and water survival training (two different locations), and Centriguge training (required if you are going to fly fighters). Each one is a week or two.

You'll then be sent to your Transition Course for your particular airframe. Most of these courses are about 9 months long (depending on airframe) for students fresh out of UPT or UNT. The first few weeks are academics (getting to know each and every system in your jet in excrutiating detail), and simulator rides (getting to know how to WORK the systems in your jet). You can expect your first sortie within 3 to 4 weeks of your class start date, then to flyat least twice a week or more after that, all the while still doing acadmeics everyday and more simulator rides.

So, if you do get that F-22, you can expect to be flying in one within a couple of months from your UPT graduation date. And guess what? You'll still most likely will be a 2nd Lt when that happens! And don't call me Shirley... :thumb:
Click to expand...

And the FIRST time you solo an AF jet...if you're like me, you'll be laughing hysterically into your oxygen mask because "they" are actually PAYING YOU to do this!!!

What a racket!

I got to fly the F-15...and they PAID ME....

I'd have paid THEM! :shake:
 
Welcome back Hornet!

And the FIRST time you solo an AF jet...if you're like me, you'll be laughing hysterically into your oxygen mask because "they" are actually PAYING YOU to do this!!!

What a racket!

I got to fly the F-15...and they PAID ME....

I'd have paid THEM!
Click to expand...

This is why spouses follow their mate around the world. In one average day kids can break their arm, cars can break down, dinner can burn and the dog can leave disgusting presents around the home, but as long as they come home after double turning smiling than it makes it worth it.

Seriously, there are not enough hands and feet on this forum to count for the amount of times Bullet said that. I remember one time Bullet's brother said he was jealous of him because, Bullet wasn't working to earn a paycheck he was doing it b/c he loved it.

For our last assignment everytime he left to fly, I would tell go and make love to that jet:wink:. Our joke was I was his mistress and the AF was his wife. He even remarked about this at his retirement. When you love what you do like that, the spouse gets it. You get it because you see the pure joy and would do anything to make sure that they keep having that happiness.

Going back to the original OP. as a Mom and a wife. I would turn to your son and just say forget the mission, forget the base assignment, forget everything. What route is going to be the one that will make you the happiest. When Bullet was a 1st Lt. we went through the 1st of 5 aircraft accidents, that took lives. Doe (Tom Dorsey) died on Feb. 5th 1990, with Cliffy (Cliff Massengill). Doe called his father that morning and said if I died today I would die a happy man doing what I love the most. He died about 10 hrs after talking to his Dad. His father said it gave him great comfort knowing that his son died happy. That is how I approach the fact that our DS will be flying. I am very well aware of the risks, but if he enjoys it 1/10 as much as Bullet, than I will be very happy for whatever track he takes. I kno one day he will turn to Bullet and tell him I get it now why you loved th AF so much and why we moved so frequently...there is nothing more I want than to see my name on the schedule, I also get now why you always got ticked when it was pulled. It's kind of like telling a pregnant woman you will have that baby tomorrow, and you don't! There is nothing worse to a flyer than a jet not being delivered by maintenance or being pulled from the schedule! OK the only thing worse is being pulled from the schedule to do a AF Politically correct mandated class for 4 hours! AS a spouse that's the day, you tell him I am going to take the kids to Chucky Cheese, I left dinner in the oven.:shake: And make sure the bottle of Jack and a can of Coke is on the counter! (for CC, its Weed in the freezer!)

BTW if you want to be the cool folks and give him a gift at graduation buy him a bottle of Jeremiah Weed, he'll be impressed that you know about it. Tell him he better not have to hand it over to the squadron though! (everytime a pilot makes Betty Beaach, they owe a bottle to the squadron...OVER G...OVER G! ) The other thing you should give him is a case of beer, in case maintenance has to save his butt for leaving something in the cockpit(i.e. Bullet lost his wedding ring and they found it...well worth the cost instead of facing me), or for his 1st roof stomp!
 
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Thats what we are hear for!

ABOVE ALL...AIM HIGH
 
PIMA...

"...BTW if you want to be the cool folks and give him a gift at graduation buy him a bottle of Jeremiah Weed, he'll be impressed that you know about it. Tell him he better not have to hand it over to the squadron though! (everytime a pilot makes Betty Beaach, they owe a bottle to the squadron...OVER G...OVER G! ) The other thing you should give him is a case of beer, in case maintenance has to save his butt for leaving something in the cockpit(i.e. Bullet lost his wedding ring and they found it...well worth the cost instead of facing me), or for his 1st roof stomp! "

You're giving away ALL the secrets of the association! :shake:

The cases of beer in my youth...had my share of "oops" maneuvers. And the bottle to the alert tanker crew when I beat up the Viper swine over the ocean and then realized that a WHILE ago I had heard Betty crooning "..BINGO...FUEL.....BINGO....FUEL..." :hammer:

And between me and the home drome was a LOT of water... :yikes:
 
My wife got turned onto Jeremiah Weed at the falcon football games. Our tailgate party has a toast just prior to closing the tailgate and going to see the game. In honor of those..... My wife actually likes the taste. I can do shots but it's not a real good sipper. Of course; we always have a bottle in the house.
 
I can't sip that, it has to be done like a shot for me, and then I always do the dog shaking their head maneuvre afterwards.

CC will disagree with me, but weed to me taste just like NYQUIL! ECK! Even thinking about it I can feel my tongue wanting to stick out, my eyes cringing and shoulders raising up!

Weed is hard to find except near any military base. For us when DS gets commissioned I already know what I am going to give him. It is our traditional gift. BULLEIT Bourbon. Yes, there is actually a bourbon named Bulleit and it is good. Easy to find in the OH/Kentucky area, but not nationally. Most of the time we have to order it.

Another great gift is Scotch...if you go onto the Johnny Walker website, you can order specialty labels for the bottle. We have done that for special occassions and it is cool. You can buy whichever level yoou want, red, black, green, blue or gold. So when he gets his track or plane you can have it read Lt XXX and something about the plane.

As far as Betty, in both of our cars we have built in Navs and my clients know I call her Betty. Inevitably it comes out why, and the history behind it. Typically when I overshoot my direction that she gave me, my clients will tell me I owe them a bottle of WEED, b/c she beaached at me(please make a U-turn if possible). I of course tell them what it tastes like and they ask for a different liquor. I tell them no only Weed for tradition. I have had to only buy 1 client Weed...3 yrs later they tell me that is still in their freezer!
I know this diverted somewhat from the main thread, but it is still about commonalities in the flying community.
 
I agree it has veered away from the OP, however, I think that everything that needs to said has been already stated. Thus, like most threads it starts to divert from the reason it was started. SUch is life for forums.

Trying to put it back on topic.

What airframe is your sons top picks for heavy or fighters, this might be another thing he needs to add into the equation. Will he be happy flying a KC for refueling fighetrs or does he only want to fly a C-5 regarding heavies. Is he willing to take any fighter? WIll he be happy flying a Strike? One problem with some pilots is the fact they don't like having a WSO telling them what to do. There are many single seat mentality pilots in the Strike. I maybe biased, but to me there is nothing worse. I will never forget Gen McPeak visiting Upper Heyford (he was a former 111 pilot) and at a dining in he stated to those in attendance "he would rather have a pint of ale in his right seat over a WSO anytime. Talk about bad SA, when 50% were the right seater at this function. Then again, he's the jerk that re-did the flight suit to have seams put down the front! (I hate him for that, b/c it took me hours with a seam ripper to remove them:thumbdown:)

So if he doesn't want to listen to the GIB or Nav, he should also re-think which airframe he is suitable for as a pilot and strive for that.
 
Lots of great information and advice !!! I have learned a lot. Spoke to son on Sunday evening, he read all of the comments on the thread and found many of them informative and thought provoking. He is hoping to get online and on the thread but as you all know they don't have a lot of time at this point in their training. He starts formation flying this week.

Pima, thanks for the ideas for gifts. Thank you all for your responses. [/B] :thumb:
 
I love watching formation flying, especially when they break. I can remember watching the jets come in and counting to 10, Bullet and I would always look at each other if they were off the count:wink:

Only thing bad about him reading the thread is you won't be cool anymore and surprise him with any of the ideas that we suggested!
 
just got done reading all of this, and like ryan, i have been thinking lots about the jet i will hopefully get to fly after UPT. Thanks a lot to everyone for posting about all of this and letting us have a bit of a glimpse into our lives later down the road. Quick question of my own, even though we only have 183 F-22s right now, and the number, if increased, will only go up to about 200, will there still be raptor cockpits for us 13ers to fly after UPT?
 
There are so many things that can happen in 5 years. Including a freeze on pilots. I don't mean to make light of your question, but you've been here too long to know what my response is probably going to be. "Serenity Prayer". Why even worry about something that you have absolutely 0% of affecting? By the time my son graduates and gets through UPT (God Willing) and you later on; we could have a whole new economic situation in the country/world. A whole new president and congress. New threats and new allies. Life is too short my friend. Have fun my friend. Enjoy what is in front of you today. Get through school, the academy, figure out your job, and then worry about what your options are. best of luck. mike.....
 
CC is right on the mark as usual.

A couple of life experiences to support his position.

1. In 92/93 the AF brought the pipeline to a screeching halt. One day it was fine the next day they sent out an AF wide memo stating that classes would be smaller and spaced out further to slow the amount of pilots graduating. Also there would be less fighters given, and that almost everybody would get heavies. Only 1 or 2 may get fighters. Prior to this every yr there would be sev. WSO's trying to xtrain into UPT. This action made WSO's rethink submitting their papers..do I want to be a WSO in a fighter or fly heavies...I can't recall any WSO putting in papers after that. 2 were already accepted to UPT with class start dates, 1 graduated top of his class and got the 16, the other grad #2 and got a C-21

2. Due to the closure of the pipeline, boneyarding of the 4 and 111, the AF xtrained from this pool for the Strike. When we arrived at Elmendorf Dec 95, they were so top heavy in O-4s they actually made E Flight, which was commonly referred to as the Majors flight (had to be a Major). The 1st time a Lt. showed up was August 96. The next time another Lt. showed up was Mar of 97. No more Lts. showed up until Aug 98 (a whole bunch ---3). Everybody else were flyers that took a bad juju assignment (remote to Korea). The AFMPC made a deal with them you do the bad juju, we'll give you your top pick! Strike Elmendorf here we come! Thus, MPC didn't need to hand out any Strikes to the younguns, b/c they had more volunteers than they could handle. AT one point everybody it seemed like everybody had ALO experience under their belt, and most knew Camp Red Cloud, SKORE real well.

3. Currently, this is occurring for the 22. Bullet's AF counterpart O-5 sel., has taken the bad juju (Pentagon) in hopes that he will get the 22. What does this mean to you...it means that the 22 for a while will most likely be filled with exp pilots and not fresh grads. There will be new grads, but they will be a raririty compared to common place. However, in a few yrs. as these higher ranked officers step out for PME and a desk, they will need to fill with recent UPT grads at a higher rate.

4. Just realize that if you don't get the 22 right out of the gate, that doesn't mean you will never fly the jet. I highly doubt that the AF will ever stop the scratch my back system. You might have to bite the bullet and spend a yr being an ALO(AIR LIASION OFFICER...not to be confused with the AFA ALO type), but as long as you always see the light at the end it will be well worth the sacrifice.

For now, you need to hit the books and keep your eye on being commissioned. Without being commissioned this discussion is for naught. You can't fly unless you are selected for UPT. You can't be selected for UPT without those butter bars!
 
Update on Fighter vs Heavy track

Just thought I would let you all know what my son decided. He ended up in the #2 position in his class. He was told that he would get his pick. After much soul searching and the knowledge that currently each T-38 class only gets 1 F-16 he decided that he would go the heavy route and is currently at the top of his T-1 class. He is happy with his decision especially with the news on the reduction of fighters system wide. He is hoping to get a C-17 and see the world. :thumb:
 
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