Frustrated Parents

[jasperdog]

2017Dad:

I call this the "looking into the abyss" moment and with the exception now of KPEngineer, I know of no other person who didn't have at least one of those moments before he or she either left USMMA or graduated. My advice and two cents are first and foremost as beyond as far as I know accurately stated:

"To the OP, you don't owe the Navy ANYTHING until your 7th trimester, which works out to be the first day of second class year (2015-2016 academic year). So if your DD/DS wants to wait and see they can wait and see."

Sure as noted KP isn't for everyone and as a number of us have noted in many posts here - it's not easy; right now the Class of 2017 Plebe Candidates have it as bad as they will have it and it will get harder as they see some more of their friends go to "State U" etc. and "have all the fun" - this while they are putting up with the Regimental System at it's worst/best and hiding in order to take a nap, etc. and possibly cleaning a toilet "right" for the first time in their lives, etc. Also they now realize in addition to all that their course loads are heavier than their friend at "real colleges" etc.

All that said, my opinion is, the truth is they won't know whether they want to "stick it out till the end" until after their first sea year. Additionally they pretty much loose nothing by sticking it out through then, especially if they can go "B" split. The majority of their course work will be transferable and they should will know whether or not they like any of the various "Options and Opportunities" readily available to them upon graduation after they've gone to sea the first time. Additionally, they'll have their first "semester abroad" and get paid for it vice likely paying extra for it.

That said if they now realize they didn't want to go to USMMA or any SA really for themselves and they did it for somebody else or some strange, strange other reason I can't understand, getting through will be tough for them. Not because they don't have the ability or intellectual capacity, but because truth be told 99+% of the people accepted to an SA (IMO) have those. However if you don't have the internal drive to push yourself to do it, at some point you will allow yourself to fail and the whole evolution (curricula, etc.) is in fact to a fair degree, intentionally (again just my opinion) unforgiving.

When the inevitable "looking into the abyss" moment comes, if you have the type of relationship with your DS or DD comes to you for advice - my advice is take into account everything you know about them since you know them best and give them a) good advice; b) as much non-judgemental encouragement as you can and c) whatever motivation you can to do what you and they both agree is right for them. I'm not a big fan of the advice about having them seek out others (whtether its the chaplain, teammates, or classmates, etc.) for two reasons. A) They likely will do that anyway if they have any inkling or propensity to do so - the system does naturally have mulltiple levels of support networks readily available. B) They looked at their list of available options to confide and brainstrom this "problem" with and they came to you - to me that means for any number of reasons they want to talk to you and not necessarily others about it.

I thought about sending you a PM and if there are any specifics that aren't visible in your public posts you think I might be able to give you ideas about how to encourage them to stick it out not through the first trimester but really the first five (5) trimesters - feel free to PM me. That said, that's how long I've always felt it takes for anyone to really see the full breadth of the good, the bad, and the ugly of both being AT and FROM USMMA. So that's really the only way I believe any individual can make an informed decision of whether they should stay or resign based on their own, individual situation, goals, etc. and first hand knowledge.

Good Luck to you and yours in particular and the entire Class of 2017 in general! Acta Non Verba JDog (graduate (older guy) and parent of recent alumnus).

 

[jasperdog]

Oh one other thought that I think applies to anyone who is thinking of resignging from any SA - if you are giving them advice be sure to ask them as to what their plan and goal is for the day after they walk out of the gate.

I say that with all sincerity, if it's something like KPEngineer talked about where the person knew where they wanted to be and USMMA wasn't it and knew what they wanted to do, then resigning is likely just the first step of a planned, relatively mature, and as likely as possible relatively unemotional decision rather then an emotional reaction to an unpleasant situation they find themselves in.

 

[AMF]

Dear Frustrated

Much of the advice here is valuable and worth considering in an effort to help your DS.

My 2 cents...focus on what he has already accomplished, and continue to do that every time you communicate. For most SA students there is no fun, and the experience can test your mettle for sure. If you want some more personal insight PM me.

Good luck

 

[Huskie_USMMA2017]

To the OP, you don't owe the Navy ANYTHING until your 7th trimester, which works out to be the first day of second class year (2015-2016 academic year). So if your DD/DS wants to wait and see they can wait and see.
...

My DS just signed his USNR papers this week and they will be sworn in on Acceptance Day. They still have no commitment until the beginning of their 7th Trimester?

What am I missing here? Are they in the USNR starting on Acceptance Day and if so, how can they not have any commitment until much later?

 

[tankercaptain]

My DS just signed his USNR papers this week and they will be sworn in on Acceptance Day. They still have no commitment until the beginning of their 7th Trimester?

What am I missing here? Are they in the USNR starting on Acceptance Day and if so, how can they not have any commitment until much later?

The midshipman are sworn in as inactive naval reserve. The service obligation falls under 46 CFR Part 310.
(e) Breach of contract. (1) Breach before graduation: (i) If the Maritime Administrator determines that an individual who has attended the Academy for not less than two (2) academic years has failed to complete the course of instruction at the Academy, such individual may be ordered by the Secretary of Defense to active duty in one of the Armed Forces of the United States to serve for a period of time not to exceed two (2) years. In cases of hardship, as determined by the Maritime Administrator, the Maritime Administrator may waive this provision in whole or in part.
(ii) If the Secretary of Defense is unable or unwilling to order an individual to active duty under the previous paragraph, or if the Maritime Administrator determines that reimbursement of the Cost of Education Provided by the Federal Government would better serve the interests of the United States, the Maritime Administrator may recover from the individual the Cost of Education Provided by the Federal Government.
(iii) For purposes of paragraph (e)(1)(i) of this section, an “academic year” is defined as the completion by a student of a total of three (3) trimesters, whether at the Academy or at sea. Thus, liability under paragraph (e)(1)(i) of this section begins for students when they begin their seventh (7th) trimester, whether at the Academy or at sea.

 

[WESKI]

Transferring/leaving

I check in every 6 months or so and it is true that that the more things change, the more they stay the same. KP is a great school to graduate from, but tough to do so. Traditionally, only about 50% of the plebe class graduates.

So what happens to those who where top of their classes and got in, but flunked out, dis-enrolled or otherwise left? I think it is the worst when thrown out in their final year for an indiscretion or grades.

My son struggled at KP academically. He had been to a military HS, so that was OK. After 2 years of scraping by and many, many discussions like those noted above, he transferred before final USNR obligation to SUNY across the bay. It took him another 2 1/2 years to graduate, but he did and is now at sea as an engineer, which was his objective.

It took longer because, and note this applies to most transfers anywhere, that you must have C+ or above to transfer the credits. AND if you still choose to go for a USCG license, you must go on 3 summer cruises for the mandatory sea time. If you transfer to a maritime college, the mandatory CG training does transfer (but you MUST keep close track of the paperwork, class descriptions and make sure your sea book is properly approved.)

In hindsight, I think we were so proud of him being at KP, it blinded us and made it hard for him to admit that defeat and his GPA put him on the line. But he loved NY Maritime and felt like he was actually enjoying some classes and having weekends off despite their own campus peculiarities. I encourage you to have a frank discussion after a year at KP, and depending, either commit to sticking it out or transferring. Don't wait until that signature is required to make a decision. Your sons and daughters are smart, young and adaptable. They will do fine but it may just take a little longer.

 

[kdbax]

In hindsight, I think we were so proud of him being at KP, it blinded us and made it hard for him to admit that defeat and his GPA put him on the line. But he loved NY Maritime and felt like he was actually enjoying some classes and having weekends off despite their own campus peculiarities. I encourage you to have a frank discussion after a year at KP, and depending, either commit to sticking it out or transferring. Don't wait until that signature is required to make a decision. Your sons and daughters are smart, young and adaptable. They will do fine but it may just take a little longer.

Our youngest son would dearly love to follow in his older brother's footsteps and go to KP. However, we already know that given his asthma and eczema, he's not going to get through DODMERB. SUNY Maritime is now at the top of his list - glad to hear your DS liked it.

 

[3XacademyMom]

Frusterated Parent

Hang in There! Most academy parents have been through this on different levels. All three of my children went through the same thing plebe year(2-sons @WP, daughter at KP) our daughter had the most difficult time. She would call in tears saying she made the wrong decision, her father told her she was always welcolme to come home, but she had to finish the semester, ( We always finish what we started) a few days after each of her tearful phone calls , we would check on her and things would be better. by the end of 1st semester, she thought she could make it through the year. Sea year brought more confidence. She is now a graduate and working for a large oil co. I will say that just before their Jr. year all three of mine again thought of quitting(commitment year) Once again, had to show them the big picture and the opportunity ahead. All in all, it is best to give them small goals, stick with it through semester, rest of year, Sea Year/Buckner. Academy life is a rude awakening! But with support, a lot of venting and a little tough love, they can make it through!

 

[AMF]

Hang in There! Most academy parents have been through this on different levels. All three of my children went through the same thing plebe year(2-sons @WP, daughter at KP) our daughter had the most difficult time. She would call in tears saying she made the wrong decision, her father told her she was always welcolme to come home, but she had to finish the semester, ( We always finish what we started) a few days after each of her tearful phone calls , we would check on her and things would be better. by the end of 1st semester, she thought she could make it through the year. Sea year brought more confidence. She is now a graduate and working for a large oil co. I will say that just before their Jr. year all three of mine again thought of quitting(commitment year) Once again, had to show them the big picture and the opportunity ahead. All in all, it is best to give them small goals, stick with it through semester, rest of year, Sea Year/Buckner. Academy life is a rude awakening! But with support, a lot of venting and a little tough love, they can make it through!

3X Mom nailed it! For the record it is not 50%, but "only" 30% that don't survive the 4 years. Not for the faint of heart.