General Questions for 2021

Jmoney457 said:
You can, if you send enough for his entire platoon (there were 28 in mine). Otherwise, the cadre will eat the cookies in front of him.


This isn't true, after indoc there are reform days, which we use for regimental stuff (BCA, PRT for 2018, 2019) about 3 days. You basically have those three days off, and you can do whatever you want.
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I see, thank you! Can the parents still send you like care packages and stuff during indoc?
 
KPEngineer said:
100% true

We always said ... "Easiest Academy to get into, hardest to graduate from" also "KP is a bad place to be but a great place to be from"
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While I am very glad that I went and the career that would not have happened without my attending, I often wonder if I would have gone through with it if I knew what I was getting into. . . . and I am not sure that I have a definitive answer. My life is certainly more interesting that it would have been otherwise. . . .
 
Are there a large number of students that fail out each year? I'm assuming that's what you mean by the hardest to graduate from?
 
What makes KP the hardest to graduate from is not simply the graduation rate since that is only a measure of success and not the difficulty with which it was achieved.

KP is really a five year program jammed in to four years. You get a difficult four year degree/education in three years (160 credits for a BS in a "regular" school vs 120 credits for your typical BA). Back when we were on a quarter system, we did a 15-week semester's work in a 10-week quarter. I graduated with 240 credits, twice the number of a typical BA.

Add on the 300 days at sea for sea year and you can see where the difficulty level comes in.

Other SAs don't have that kind of schedule. They do a typical four year education in four years. It's definitely harder than StateU, but doesn't compare to KP if you ask me.
 
I see. That makes a lot of sense. Are there many students that fail out because of the rigorous academics?
 
KPEngineer said:
What makes KP the hardest to graduate from is not simply the graduation rate since that is only a measure of success and not the difficulty with which it was achieved.

KP is really a five year program jammed in to four years. You get a difficult four year degree/education in three years (160 credits for a BS in a "regular" school vs 120 credits for your typical BA). Back when we were on a quarter system, we did a 15-week semester's work in a 10-week quarter. I graduated with 240 credits, twice the number of a typical BA.

Add on the 300 days at sea for sea year and you can see where the difficulty level comes in.

Other SAs don't have that kind of schedule. They do a typical four year education in four years. It's definitely harder than StateU, but doesn't compare to KP if you ask me.
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absolutely correct. There is really no way to prepare for this aspect of KP, nor a way to really understand what it is until it happens to you. At least that is what it looks like from afar. An unbelievable amount of academic work, on top of the regiment requirements, on top of athletic requirements, and, of course, the need to sleep at least a couple hours a week. I have immense respect for anyone who is there, or from there, and such has just grown in this past year, as I can see it through DS' eyes. I compare DS' experience with friends who have children at USMA and USAFA, and, there is no comparison--although they think there is.

joriebelle; the 4 year attrition rate is consistently about 25%, although there is a push to lower that percentage. Some of that attrition is tempered by set backs coming back to the school the following year. I don't recall seeing a breakdown of what the attrition numbers are from, but, there will be a couple percent, at least, on medical issues. There will be a couple on the simple fact that some people do not understand KP means you will be on the water. Some drop at Sea Year. The rest are probably academic, although there could be the discipline issue every know and then.
 
Oh my goodness, 25% is high. Wow. Thanks for the info. DS is sending his application in soon; tomorrow he has his CFA.
 
golfindad said:
absolutely correct. There is really no way to prepare for this aspect of KP, nor a way to really understand what it is until it happens to you. At least that is what it looks like from afar. An unbelievable amount of academic work, on top of the regiment requirements, on top of athletic requirements, and, of course, the need to sleep at least a couple hours a week. I have immense respect for anyone who is there, or from there, and such has just grown in this past year, as I can see it through DS' eyes. I compare DS' experience with friends who have children at USMA and USAFA, and, there is no comparison--although they think there is.

joriebelle; the 4 year attrition rate is consistently about 25%, although there is a push to lower that percentage. Some of that attrition is tempered by set backs coming back to the school the following year. I don't recall seeing a breakdown of what the attrition numbers are from, but, there will be a couple percent, at least, on medical issues. There will be a couple on the simple fact that some people do not understand KP means you will be on the water. Some drop at Sea Year. The rest are probably academic, although there could be the discipline issue every know and then.
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In terms of academic set backs, do they go home and self prep by retaking classes at a college for a whole two normal semesters and go back the next year? And, then do they then enter into the class a year back, such as a 2021 having a set back and so they'd enter back in as 2022? I do hope that we don't have any experience with this sort of concern, but one never knows and I like to be informed. ;)
 
The way to stay out of trouble academically:

Want to stay out of trouble academically.


I have classmates that are really not very gifted academically. But man were they stubborn at KP. They had to put in way more hours than the rest of us, but they just never gave up. They wanted to blue tube. Bad. So they made it happen.

25% isn't as high as you think when compared to regular schools. The difference I suspect is that more people at KP get forced out than at regular schools, but you can compare 4 year graduation rates online... KP is higher than most.
 
12 credits is all you need to be a full time student, I had 20+ most quarters. My last couple were 15ish credits and it felt like I only had a half load.

Anecdotally speaking, I think 25% attrition is on the low side. That may be what the actual number is, but it sure seems like a lot more of my entering classmates didn't graduate on time if at all.

My plebe year we had t-shirts printed that listed everyones name who finished indoc. I started crossing them off with a sharpie as they dropped out of the class (disenrolled and setback) and there was a LOT of black. I recall it being around 40%, but again this is only anecdotal.

Setbacks do a variety of things when off as the time off can vary depending on why you were set back and where in the year it is. Some take classes, some work and some rehab, again it depends on the why. My advice to anyone being setback is to know before you leave KP what will be expected of you when you return. Get a copy of your transcript and know which classes you will have to repeat, which repeated classes will replace the previous grade and which will be an additional grade. Get some academic counselling taking a strategic look at your grades and only then can you decide what, if any, classes are worth taking at StateU during your time off. Taking and transferring back classes may not be the answer, some people will just need the break to refresh their brain.

I'm not sure that academics is the No.1 reason by much people leave. Again, anecdotally I saw a high enough number being disenrolled/setback for discipline/honor violations and leaving of their own choice that the totality of "others" seemed pretty close to the number leaving for academics.

We had a group of setbacks join my class right after indoc. They were repeating the whole plebe year academically but since they had been recognized as 4/C before getting setback they did the year with 3/C regimental standing but 4/C academically. There were others who joined the class after winter break because they only had to repeat half the year.

Personally, as difficult as KP is there is no shame in being a setback. Who really cares if you graduate at 23 instead of 22? Who cares that you took five years to graduate college? No one every asked me why I squeezed four years of college into eight and didn't graduate until 26. No one ever cared that I had two 3/C years and two 1/C years. All anyone has ever cared about is "USMMA Graduate - BS in Marine Engineering"
 
KPEngineer said:
12 credits is all you need to be a full time student, I had 20+ most quarters. My last couple were 15ish credits and it felt like I only had a half load.

Anecdotally speaking, I think 25% attrition is on the low side. That may be what the actual number is, but it sure seems like a lot more of my entering classmates didn't graduate on time if at all.

My plebe year we had t-shirts printed that listed everyones name who finished indoc. I started crossing them off with a sharpie as they dropped out of the class (disenrolled and setback) and there was a LOT of black. I recall it being around 40%, but again this is only anecdotal.

Setbacks do a variety of things when off as the time off can vary depending on why you were set back and where in the year it is. Some take classes, some work and some rehab, again it depends on the why. My advice to anyone being setback is to know before you leave KP what will be expected of you when you return. Get a copy of your transcript and know which classes you will have to repeat, which repeated classes will replace the previous grade and which will be an additional grade. Get some academic counselling taking a strategic look at your grades and only then can you decide what, if any, classes are worth taking at StateU during your time off. Taking and transferring back classes may not be the answer, some people will just need the break to refresh their brain.

I'm not sure that academics is the No.1 reason by much people leave. Again, anecdotally I saw a high enough number being disenrolled/setback for discipline/honor violations and leaving of their own choice that the totality of "others" seemed pretty close to the number leaving for academics.

We had a group of setbacks join my class right after indoc. They were repeating the whole plebe year academically but since they had been recognized as 4/C before getting setback they did the year with 3/C regimental standing but 4/C academically. There were others who joined the class after winter break because they only had to repeat half the year.

Personally, as difficult as KP is there is no shame in being a setback. Who really cares if you graduate at 23 instead of 22? Who cares that you took five years to graduate college? No one every asked me why I squeezed four years of college into eight and didn't graduate until 26. No one ever cared that I had two 3/C years and two 1/C years. All anyone has ever cared about is "USMMA Graduate - BS in Marine Engineering"
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@KPEngineer thanks for the insight. And, you're right, history is moot when the degree is earned!
 
KPEngineer said:
I'm not sure that academics is the No.1 reason by much people leave. Again, anecdotally I saw a high enough number being disenrolled/setback for discipline/honor violations and leaving of their own choice that the totality of "others" seemed pretty close to the number leaving for academics.
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As the attrition rate has gone down over the years, academics is heavily the number one reason for disenrollment currently. The discipline house almost never disenrolls or sets back anyone, although they just did disenroll a 4/C for sexual assault. There are like 6-8 honor boards a year, a few get set back. They have this new thing called honor remediation, which is basically 4 months of restriction, so you avoid a setback. They said that honor board and discipline setbacks are too much of a vacation.

I think a scary thing at KP is that you easily get a honor board for lying, and anyone can fill it out.
 
Jmoney457 said:
I think a scary thing at KP is that you easily get a honor board for lying, and anyone can fill it out.
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So that is a gross simplification of things... there is an investigation and blah blah blah before you actually go in front of an honor board.

I'm not sure how it is now, but it was incredibly rare (...like so rare I can't remember a case of it happening) for someone to honor board a classmate...

For me the group that I was tightest with was my academic section. We stayed together from third Tri plebe year until the very end (...actually a few people got moved 3rd tri senior year because we caused so much trouble). Our section was very much a band of brothers, and no one dared betray the trust of that group.

Being outcast from your classmates is probably just as severe a punishment as the honor board could dish out. There was so little trust in the admiration to handle honor cases (...or anything really) with any integrity. We policed our own.
 
KPEngineer said:
12 credits is all you need to be a full time student, I had 20+ most quarters. My last couple were 15ish credits and it felt like I only had a half load.

Anecdotally speaking, I think 25% attrition is on the low side. That may be what the actual number is, but it sure seems like a lot more of my entering classmates didn't graduate on time if at all.

My plebe year we had t-shirts printed that listed everyones name who finished indoc. I started crossing them off with a sharpie as they dropped out of the class (disenrolled and setback) and there was a LOT of black. I recall it being around 40%, but again this is only anecdotal.

Setbacks do a variety of things when off as the time off can vary depending on why you were set back and where in the year it is. Some take classes, some work and some rehab, again it depends on the why. My advice to anyone being setback is to know before you leave KP what will be expected of you when you return. Get a copy of your transcript and know which classes you will have to repeat, which repeated classes will replace the previous grade and which will be an additional grade. Get some academic counselling taking a strategic look at your grades and only then can you decide what, if any, classes are worth taking at StateU during your time off. Taking and transferring back classes may not be the answer, some people will just need the break to refresh their brain.

I'm not sure that academics is the No.1 reason by much people leave. Again, anecdotally I saw a high enough number being disenrolled/setback for discipline/honor violations and leaving of their own choice that the totality of "others" seemed pretty close to the number leaving for academics.

We had a group of setbacks join my class right after indoc. They were repeating the whole plebe year academically but since they had been recognized as 4/C before getting setback they did the year with 3/C regimental standing but 4/C academically. There were others who joined the class after winter break because they only had to repeat half the year.

Personally, as difficult as KP is there is no shame in being a setback. Who really cares if you graduate at 23 instead of 22? Who cares that you took five years to graduate college? No one every asked me why I squeezed four years of college into eight and didn't graduate until 26. No one ever cared that I had two 3/C years and two 1/C years. All anyone has ever cared about is "USMMA Graduate - BS in Marine Engineering"
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And, even more importantly. . . a license. . .
 
beyond said:
So that is a gross simplification of things... there is an investigation and blah blah blah before you actually go in front of an honor board.

I'm not sure how it is now, but it was incredibly rare (...like so rare I can't remember a case of it happening) for someone to honor board a classmate...
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My anecdotal recollection was that more honor board cases were from professors for cheating than anything else with theft being next.

beyond said:
Being outcast from your classmates is probably just as severe a punishment as the honor board could dish out. There was so little trust in the admiration to handle honor cases (...or anything really) with any integrity. We policed our own.
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All engineers in my class got 4 weeks restriction 1/C year for a planned event which the administration didn't appreciate. I appealed to the Commandant on the rationale that I wasn't there, didn't contribute funds towards it and specifically counselled my Engineer classmates against it. His response was that I should have brought it to the attention of the administration before it happened. Roger that ... see you at restriction muster.
 
Jmoney457 said:
I think a scary thing at KP is that you easily get a honor board for lying, and anyone can fill it out.
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There is a reason KP doesn't have a tolerance clause. Beyonds reference to ostracization would most definitely apply to anyone misusing the honor system.
 
beyond said:
For me the group that I was tightest with was my academic section. We stayed together from third Tri plebe year until the very end (...actually a few people got moved 3rd tri senior year because we caused so much trouble). Our section was very much a band of brothers, and no one dared betray the trust of that group.
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Hmm....they shuffle all of the sections every tri. I don't know why they do this, I only have like 2 friends in my section now.
KPEngineer said:
My anecdotal recollection was that more honor board cases were from professors for cheating than anything else with theft being next.
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They just did a presentation on the honor board, and it said 60-70% honor board cases are people lying in the regiment. They haven't had a stealing one in a few years. The academic side is the other 30%.
Funny recent honor board cases, plebe lying about being jewish to get a refrigerator. I think he won his case...they couldnt prove he wasnt jewish.

1st classman lying on the prt after they recorded it
 
And, companies are being shuffled as well. I don't understand why there is no tolerate clause. It seems the tolerate clause would address the sash issue dot speaks of. My bet, based on absolutely no info, is that they change it to include the tolerate clause. But, I am wrong on so many occasions, this is probably just another one of those times.
 
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