Grades for the first tri

This is not high school.

Peoples lives can be at stake in a blink of an eye.

The only important thing is your team.

The lessons are humility and perseverance.

Rest assured the school will find something that makes every student question themselves.

The test is to keep going and meet the mission.

Hopefully, learning the real lessons won't be too painful.

Its only a victory if your team mates are still standing next to you in the end.
 
This is not the armed forces.

This is not a military academy.

This is an institution that confers Bachelor of Science degrees.

People's lives are at risk at every minute of every day, if you really think about it. Although not the safest career in existence, being a merchant mariner is not particularly life-threatening.

Don't know what "mission" you're talking about; my DS's mission is to graduate fully licensed and with as high a GPA and as well rounded and well educated as possible.

Although nobody gets through KP all by themselves, I don't think any of our sons and daughters is obligated to "stand next" to or bring along anybody in particular at commencement.
 
I have to wonder why achieving excellent academic performance should be "downplayed" at any institution of higher learning.

I feel that they have to be downplayed by others is because they have grown up with this new "Politically Correct" attitude. I, myself, started this thread, congratulating my DS for his work in school. He was failing Physics and managed to get a B out of it.
I do feel for those that are struggling as my son was struggling with Physics. My husband, my DS and I were preparing ourselves for Summer School and glad that didn't happen - YET.
For those that passed this Trimester - I say, "HOORAY, HOORAY, HOORAY" and if you didn't hear me the first time, I'll say it again, "HOORAY!!!!!"
 
paradigm paralysis

paradigm paralysis: the inability or refusal to see beyond the current models of thinking.

Our sons and daughters belong to a cadre which has respect, empathy and understanding for every person undergoing the rigors of midshipman life. It is something most of us will never understand. We may have experienced the closeness created by being part of a "team" but I don't think this is even close to what our kids see. I think we understand it more through what our sons and daughter don't say. Just the genuine sadness they express when they hear that one of their classmates are setback or disenrolled. It might be that some see outwardly celebrating a good trimester as akin to outwardly celebrating the survival of a catastrophe that others weren't fortunate enough to make it through.

I've never seen a midshipman posting his grades in celebration of passing a trimester. On the other hand at graduation the flood gates seem to open. Might be like "whistling through a graveyard". Also, there are very few individual athletic achievements posted on this site. If they are, it isn't by the student athletes parents.
 
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@MarinierMom54 & shutterbugC:

1) None of what I said was directed at anyone in particular so I apologize I should have finished my post with: "..., but I guess to each his or her own."

As I seem to have started some discussion on the matter perhaps a little more background as to why my opinion/recommendation that: "These honors are generally, IMO, something to be celebrated in a low key manner ..."

First, my experience with my own DS is at this point of his life while he still enjoys making us, his parents and family, proud; he is now his own person/man and whatever he accomplishes are his accomplishments. So he appreciates us acknowledging his accomplishments as part of his adult life; but if/when we "crow" about them, he doesn't really like it much at all and feels we are still looking at him as somewhat of the son we had when he was in high school. He probably has a point and at times we can't help ourselves but in the long run I find my relationship with him is better - from both our perspectives - when he feels confident that we regard him as an independent, young adult. Especially when there is cause for him to ask us for our advice and/or help. That's, in our case currently the # reason for my recommendation.

Second, my observations from watching the situations of some other families where their sons and daughters have encountered challenges that found them facing possible dis-enrollment from the USMMA, have been it was always, for various reasons, an easier situation for them to get through if they had been lower key and more humble in their celebrations of the intermediate accomplishments and successes between reporting for INDOC and Graduation day. Most often I have perceived and felt there was less additional pressure put on the Midshipmen and they were more likely to seek the full advice, counsel, and support of their families as they felt less pressure and inclination to hide the situation from their family for fear of having disappointed them. Like I say, this is not something we've gone through firsthand but it is something I've seen friends both while I was a midshipman and now as a parent have to work through and how I perceived some of what they had to deal with.

Third, to some degree I am always a "There but for the Grace of God go I" sort of person. As has been pointed out, getting through the full program. all be it in the "normal" four year program or via some longer more circuitous path, is generally not an easy thing for any who do it. So while this trimester you may have earned a Gold Star, you never know what might happen next trimester ... or you might find the lack of a schedule and oversight during sea year something that is so seductive to you, you return from sea with some required submission not even started, etc in either of these cases, then you or in our cases our children would be the ones seeking advice and counsel as to how to stay. Again this is usually something easier done, if you don't find yourself feeling that you also are choking back on some prior prideful feelings, etc.

So I'll close my thoughts on this with a couple of things
- I never said that these intermediate accomplishments (great trimester grades, etc.) aren't something to be celebrated; I certainly am saying in our family's case we believe they are best celebrated in a relatively low key fashion. Whether we do that with as was noted "humility" or not is actually something that the outside world can judge, but I do know that if my DS finds himself in need of help, advice and counsel on these subjects I'm pretty confident that despite him doing much better through this point of his time at the USMMA then what I did 30 years ago, fear of having disappointed me, will not be something that runs through his mind before he calls us to discuss his situation and available alternatives.
- I agree the USMMA is a Maritime Academy and NOT a Military Academy. That said at the end of the road your child will have FOUR things: a) A B.S. Degree, b) A USCG Merchant Mariners License, c) a Commission, most likely as an Ensign in the USNR, and d) an obligation to repay his country for his education through his service commitment as a member of our Armed Forces for a period of not less than 5 years depending on the path he chooses to follow to make that repayment. My point is there is an aspect of Regimental Life that is related to Esprit d'Corps, etc. that I think is very well captured and reflected by XBulldog's post #24 of this thread. I find his bottom line makes some very relevant points as well:

I've never seen a midshipman posting his grades in celebration of passing a trimester. On the other hand at graduation the flood gates seem to open. Might be like "whistling through a graveyard". Also, there are very few individual athletic achievements posted on this site. If they are, it isn't by the student athletes parents.

I think "the flood gate" at graduation is almost always best seen in the fact the person who gets the biggest cheers - from both his/her peers as well as the entire audience - is the Class Anchorman when he/she goes up on stage and gets his bag of pennies from his classmates. I won't speak for the other 252 members of my graduating class but I know, even though I was nearer to the top of our class than the bottom, the three thoughts running through my own mind watching our anchorman standing there holding a Long Island Bank canvas bag of 25,400 freshly minted 1982 pennies were:
A) "There but for the Grace of God..."
B) "God, how much harder would this have been to go through with the fear of being subject to dis-enrollment if I made any more mistakes relative to grades over the past three years..."
and
C) "The reason he looks as happy as I feel right now is all 254 of us have the same set of bona fides today ... FWE..."

By the way, relative to the thought someone expressed earlier here that "Its only a victory if your team mates are still standing next to you in the end." I agree that sentiment is just not true, as the same person pointed out "This is not high school." There are winners and their are losers, and nobody who only gets an "A" for effort will be making it through. Our class had an unusually high matriculation rate ~318 reported in July of 1978 and 254 graduated in June of 198 including 6 "setbacks" from the entering Class of 1981. That's a 77.98% matriculation rate and was statistically more than the ~66.77% we were led to believe would happen when the RTO told us to look to our left and our right while we were all at our first full assembly on Tomb Field on day one of INDOC and then told us that if we were there at Graduation, the odds were that at least one of the other two people we had just looked at wouldn't be there. So while I agree every midshipmen knows the need for and value of teamwork, they also know there's pretty much no way 100% of their current "teammates" are likely to be alongside them on Graduation Day. I don't think that fact should not prevent they and their families from taking pride and celebrating such things - in a low key manner.

That's all I was trying to say on this subject - and my comments were not focused/directed to anyone in particular.
 
I'll be as brief as jasperdog was longwinded.

". . . my comments were not focused/directed to anyone in particular"

Nonsense.
 
MarinerMom54:
Seriously....
You post "I just gotta brag, our DS has earned his fourth gold star in a row. He works soooo hard! I can't express how proud of him we are!"
following posts where parents are sick over the fact their plebes failed and may be asked to leave??????
[edit by KP2001: let's just say humility doesn't agree with you doing this]
 
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Gotta love this forum ... on this thread I'm called long-winded and the response to an apology that frankly wasn't all that deserved (since someone choose to take something that in no way was personally directed at them by grasping at a straw of a single word in one of my posts) was BS...

Then another person thinks the reason I hold my opinion is some misplaced sense of political correctness ... something I assure you I am not often accused of (as in never)...

Of course earlier this week on another thread (http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=15310) I was felt by some to be a wee bit too blunt...

Now I know why I'm always much more comfortable at the USMMA Alumni Association Functions and never feel like I have much in common with the majority of members of the Kings Point PTA ... oops that was high school's term for it now we call it the USMMA Parents Association ....
 
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First Trimester Grade

Not sure what I am reading here?
How many Plebes are in academic trouble after only one marking period?

What is the"Bell Curve" at USMMA?......How many "A"s, "B"s, "C"s, "D"s, and "F"s, are they required to give?

Can you be accepted to USMMA without any track record in HS Physics or Calculus?

Also, how can kids who achieved A's in high school in certain subjects, now have failing grades in the same subject?
 
North Fork:

Good and relevant questions all ...

1) My son has repeatedly told me over these past three years that unlike when his father attended the USMMA there is/are no imposed Bell Curve in place and there are no required minimum numbers of grades (A - F) for any particular classes. That you get what you get and whether you get an A or an F depends on your grades for the components of each grade and weighting of them as described and provided, generally, by each professor at the start of a trimester.

2) Yes, you can be accepted (appointed) to the USMMA without any track record in either Physics or Calculus, though most entering students have at least some introduction to one or the other. It basically depends on what the high school curricula the State, County, and/or School System required you to have to graduate and often neither Calculus nor Physics are required to receive a HS Diploma, since that's the relevant component of the admissions requirements in this area of the admissions process..

3) As for how a kid might pass something or even do well in something at the HS level and now have trouble at the USMMA there could indeed be a myriad of reasons. Aside from all the normal reasons relative to the transition from "high school" to "College", there's also a whole set of things that put the Plebes into situations where they have to manage time and priorities, and they also have to deal with coming to terms with whether the decision to attend a Service Academy was right for them, which pretty much everyone seems to ponder and question at some point during the first two trimesters in residence; also the Academic Calender at the USMMA creates it's own challenges in that a 14 week trimester and the material covered in it, is pretty much nothing more than a 16 week semester crammed into a period of time which is 12.5% shorter. And like I alluded these two reasons are usually just the tip of the iceberg for those that find themselves dealing with these sorts of issues.

Sorry if this answer is a little longer winded than you or some might like, but I also wouldn't want to offend anyone by being terse.... Seriously hope this helps ....
 
Admin Note

To all posting:

Obviously grades/GPA's/setbacks/disenrollments are all very tense subjects and can as shown in this thread have various opinions as to how those should be addressed.

I ask all of you to remember that we're all one big happy family :biggrin: and to please remember to respect your fellow members. If you need to start a sentence with "You" or a username or some other direct reference to someone it usually isn't in a good way so find ways to work around that to make it more obtuse.
 
just be happy

When I was in high school one of the smarter kids I knew who was a year ahead of me went to the air force academy. A year later he came back to visit us, having been academically separated. He said that it was not that everything was so hard, it is just that there was so much he could not handle it. I have an older son, academically brilliant from test scores and grades, who went to A&M and wound up majoring in Bonfire- he is now an ex-Aggie. Nothing is guaranteed. The students have to do it themselves, and each day they complete at KP is an accomplishment. That should be a source of quiet pride for all.
 
In the interests of "obtuseness": I would ask everyone to go back and read the first FOUR posts on this thread, and then decide what the tone of this thread began as.

I neither requested, needed nor wanted an "apology". What I object to is hypocrisy and condescension. I wasn't born yesterday.
 
I have reviewed this forum for four years and there are some seasoned members here – many of them alumni. They offer their insight for the benefit of the plebes and midshipmen – they are not trying to offend anyone. From what I have read, these contributors offer the parents a unique perspective into the academy and many times a reality check. Gold and silver stars are nice but from my perspective having a discussion about them is of little value to the forum compared dis-enrollments, setbacks, injuries, trials at sea, new superintendents, etc. – it is a long list of challenges.

For all my DS’s ups and downs at KP he/we left any accolades in the bottom drawer – we knew this was going to be a long tough road for his class which will probably graduate less than 67% of the original 280 that arrived in 07. This is reality. No one will care about gold or silver stars at graduation. Every one of them will be equal in title – either Ensign or Lieutenant.
 
I truly, truly, do not understand why it is so important for people to feel the need to "rain on someone's parade" when they are only expressing candid happiness in their DS/DD's success.

Yeah, gold and silver stars are not going to mean too much in a couple of years, but right now they represent a lot of hard work, stress and anxiety on the part of our DSs and DDs.

They should feel proud to have earned them, and as their parents, we are proud of them!

We did not jump in to any thread discussing dis-enrollments, setbacks, injuries, trials at sea, etc. to "crow" about our DS/DD's achievements. Anybody reading the first handfull of postings on this thread could figure out what it was about; if they didn't want to read about it, they could, to paraphrase, "just turn the dial".
 
We have all read all of the Posts - we get your point; I hope you understand mine. I think it is time to end this string and move on.
 
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