I was looking at how USMA got ranked 4th best college in the nation in Forbes for 2010 and while looking at the data compared to the colleges that beat them something really stood out to me, 75% graduation rate. I always knew this number but it got me curious. My question is, what is the biggest reason for not graduating at USMA?
Graduation Rate
- Thread starter GSKeziah
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2008
- Messages
- 203
The biggest reason (or so I'm told) is academics. Hopefully someone else who knows a little more can chime in.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,586
Based off of what I have seen the number one reason is academics as well.
Stopper8293
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2011
- Messages
- 31
Lotrjedi13, I'm guessing you may know the answer to this question: Is the size of any USMA class made official on R-Day or A-Day?
If the class size is made official on R-Day, then I was going to say that a contributing reason is because, from what I hear, around 40 or so New Cadets will drop out during Beast Barracks each summer. And even thought 40 does not account for 75% of the class at the end of the four years, it definitely is apart of it.
The second reason I can think of is that when the option comes for the Cadets at the end of their sophomore year to stay or leave USMA and the Army, it is possible that a good chunk of that 75% leave during that time. I don't know this for sure, but I would say that it's a fair thought.
And of course, the rigorous and relentless academic curriculum drives many cadets out of the Academy, whether they fail out or just aren't able to take it anymore.
If the class size is made official on R-Day, then I was going to say that a contributing reason is because, from what I hear, around 40 or so New Cadets will drop out during Beast Barracks each summer. And even thought 40 does not account for 75% of the class at the end of the four years, it definitely is apart of it.
The second reason I can think of is that when the option comes for the Cadets at the end of their sophomore year to stay or leave USMA and the Army, it is possible that a good chunk of that 75% leave during that time. I don't know this for sure, but I would say that it's a fair thought.
And of course, the rigorous and relentless academic curriculum drives many cadets out of the Academy, whether they fail out or just aren't able to take it anymore.
- Many people come here thinking the academic year will be a lot chiller than basic and find the academic year a shock (mostly recruited athletes who didn't know what they were getting into)
- many people just realize the Army is not what they want. My roommate for example who is transferring to a civilian university for next semester
- Alcohol. If you're under 21 and/or a yuk or plebe don't use it. If your of age and class, don't abuse it.
- lack of prioritizing and time managements leads to academic failure
- medical stuff
- many people just realize the Army is not what they want. My roommate for example who is transferring to a civilian university for next semester
- Alcohol. If you're under 21 and/or a yuk or plebe don't use it. If your of age and class, don't abuse it.
- lack of prioritizing and time managements leads to academic failure
- medical stuff
What vampsoul said.
However, I'm not TOO sure about the academics. From what some current cadets have told me, the teachers try VERY hard not to fail you. This is why West Point has some of the most accessible professors, so they said. Makes sense to me, as I'm sure the Army would not want to fail its future officers, since that will prevent them from getting into the Army. That's not a very good investment I would expect.
The cadets have also told me that before junior year there is a contract you need to sign before you continue schooling. When you sign this contract, it forces you to stay in West Point and serve in the Army soon afterwards. I'm sure this is when people decide whether or not the Army lifestyle is for them.
Medical stuff is kind of iffy for me. From what I'm hearing, breaking a bone will prevent you from staying in the school? Or at least, you'll have to wait a year. I'm not sure about this one, if anyone can clarify, please do.
Trouble with the law can also screw you up. I read recently of some USNA Midshipmen who were kicked out for having a marijuana-like substance. Just don't do drugs.
Please feel free to correct me or add on, this was just a compilation of inputs I received from current cadets as well as alumni, so there could be discrepancies.
However, I'm not TOO sure about the academics. From what some current cadets have told me, the teachers try VERY hard not to fail you. This is why West Point has some of the most accessible professors, so they said. Makes sense to me, as I'm sure the Army would not want to fail its future officers, since that will prevent them from getting into the Army. That's not a very good investment I would expect.
The cadets have also told me that before junior year there is a contract you need to sign before you continue schooling. When you sign this contract, it forces you to stay in West Point and serve in the Army soon afterwards. I'm sure this is when people decide whether or not the Army lifestyle is for them.
Medical stuff is kind of iffy for me. From what I'm hearing, breaking a bone will prevent you from staying in the school? Or at least, you'll have to wait a year. I'm not sure about this one, if anyone can clarify, please do.
Trouble with the law can also screw you up. I read recently of some USNA Midshipmen who were kicked out for having a marijuana-like substance. Just don't do drugs.
Please feel free to correct me or add on, this was just a compilation of inputs I received from current cadets as well as alumni, so there could be discrepancies.
jasondavid92
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2010
- Messages
- 102
But if you sign the contract and then fail the PT Test or academics or whatever, you have to serve your commitment as enlisted
Just_A_Mom
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Messages
- 4,774
You are not in the class until A-Day - that sets the class size.
jason - if you separate after the first class on the first day of your junior year, you have an obligation to the government. could be $$$; could be time as enlisted.
jason - if you separate after the first class on the first day of your junior year, you have an obligation to the government. could be $$$; could be time as enlisted.
Just_A_Mom
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Messages
- 4,774
You need to be healthy on R-Day when you enter the Army and take the Oath. If you can't complete Beast - you MIGHT be sent home to get healthy for next year OR they may be able to keep you. This depends on a whole host of factors.
After A-Day - if you get injured or sick they will take care of you and do all they can to make you better. In some cases the cadet will require a medical discharge from the Army.
Just_A_Mom
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Messages
- 4,774
But they will fail you if you fail the course. It's not about it being difficult or cadets being too stupid. Everyone enters with the potential to succeed.
As with other things - sometimes life gets in the way of academic success. Sometimes cadets hate it, sometimes they are homesick or lonely, sometimes they have family stressors. A plebe's life is a busy one and finding time to see three professors can be a challenge in and of itself.
In the first two years - it's probably academics. But upperclassmen can and are separated for academics. Each year there are a handful who find out in the spring they will not be graduating - some fail the pt test, some fail a required class, some have a behavioral issue.
FWIW, the graduation rate (for those who entered in the Fall of 2002, which is the cohort used by Forbes) jumps to 78% at five years and 80% at six years.
Common Data Source (pdf)
Common Data Source (pdf)