Helicopter parents and you

[Dixieland]

Just reminding everyone that there is a difference between helping our kids and being a "Helicopter Parent" who DOES everything for their kids and doesn't allow them to grow up.

I agree, Christcorp.

 

[LineInTheSand]

All very good comments about "Helping" our kids. But remember; this thread started off about "Helicopter Parent". Not detracting from any of the great "Assistance" posts. Just reminding everyone that there is a difference between helping our kids and being a "Helicopter Parent" who DOES everything for their kids and doesn't allow them to grow up. Do I HELP my kids do their taxes? Yes. I also help most of my co-workers. But I don't DO IT for them. Do I HELP my kids with questions about their car if it's acting up; technology questions with computers; etc...? Yes. But I don't drive down there to look at their car problems. If they can't fix it with my help, then they need to get it to a shop to work on it and they can pay for it. Do I offer advice to my son about the military because of my 21 years of experience? Yes. But I don't call the academy or representative/senator if there's a problem. He, my son, has to figure it out for himself.

Bottom line: There's a difference between "Helping - usually ONLY WHEN ASKED" and "DOING - usually not when asked and EXPECTED". So definitely, continue talking about all the ways we can "HELP" our kids. But don't confuse "HELPING" with "DOING". Mike...

100% agree.

 

[Pima]

I agree with Mike too.

Typically the line can and will get blurred. We may misinterpret what they are saying because our number 1 thing after 18 yrs is to be there for them night or day.

It is a natural instinct to jump, one IMPO that you need to as a parent to find your own set of boundaries in this new world.

I have wanted to jump a lot of times to "help", and thankfully I have Bullet to stop me. Bullet reminds me of the fact in the AF world, even though he is in college and we are paying health insurance, floating money, the GOVT and AF sees him as an adult and would not allow us access to any of his information. He also must pay taxes on his TDY pay as a cadet like you and me.

It is his life now. We cut one apron string when he went to college on an AFROTC scholarship. If he calls we give guidance, we will ask if he wants us to come there, but regarding everything else it is up to him to sink or swim.

The SA's and ROTC units are not heartless, they know these cadets are still just kids and they want them to succeed. They want it so much that they have safety net after safety net to catch them.

Nobody wants to hear or accept it, but the fact is:

THAT IS THEIR FAMILY NOW!

They will protect them as their own. You need to believe in this as fact.

Once you accept this as fact, you will not Helo. You will sit back and watch them soar into a person you never even fathomed in your wildest dreams. The respect you have right now for the military will be nothing compared to the respect you have for them 4 yrs from now when your child commissions.

 

[profsparrow]

ABSOLUTELY right Pima and CC! As a former AD AF I can't remotely imagine the embarrassment and loss of respect I would have had from my Commander, 1st shirt and peers if Mommy called to "fight my battles" for me. OMG! If 17/18 year old enlisted can be mature adults right out of HS, these awesome cadets should certainly be able to do the same. Giving advice IF asked, certainly. But not inserting ourselves where we have no business doing so. The military is their new "Parents," so to speak. And they do a good job of it.

 

[Christcorp]

Sparrow; you hit on a major point that SO MANY simply can not grasp.

1. Is there a forum like this to talk about "Enlisting" out of high school?
2. Are there people asking if there are "Parent's Groups" in their state to support their "ENLISTED" son or daughter?
3. Is there a "Parent's Weekend" after basic training at Lackland AFB, Texas when the enlisted person graduates Basic Training?

FWIW: When an enlisted person goes to Basic Training, upon completion, they are given their orders to which technical school they will attend. They are told what office to go to to get their plane or bus ticket to their next school. They don't have any vacation time saved up. They get to their technical school and are given a dormitory room and a meal card to eat with. Their pay is automatically deposited into a bank account. "If" they are foolish enough to already be married and/or brought their family to their technical school base, they will have to set an apartment. The enlisted member will still have to make it to all military formations, classes, etc... If they want to buy a car; have at it. They better make sure they have enough money as an E-1 or E-2 to pay for that car, insurance, gas, possible rent, etc... If not; too bad.

The military is definitely a family and is there to help their members. Enlisted and officers. But they aren't going to help you be stupid. Now, as sparrow mentioned, 17-18 year old enlisted do this every day starting on day 1 of their enlistment. And mommy and daddy are NOT calling the first sergeant, commander, etc... So, how much more prepared is an Academy or ROTC cadet? I'll give you a hint: "A HELL of a lot more prepared".

Bottom line: Definitely help your son/daughter with what it takes to get their appointment or ROTC scholarship. But once they are there..... "BACK OFF"!!! As heartless as it sounds; your son/daughter might WANT your assistance, but THEY DON'T NEED YOU. Not any longer. Sorry; but if little Johnny or Janie NEED their mother or father once they are at the academy or at ROTC.... Then honestly.... They have no business being there. Needing and wanting are two different things. They have the military to help them now. They don't NEED you. It's ok if they want some help and ask for your assistance, but that should be the end of it.

 

[hokiesfan]

1. Is there a forum like this to talk about "Enlisting" out of high school?
2. Are there people asking if there are "Parent's Groups" in their state to support their "ENLISTED" son or daughter?
3. Is there a "Parent's Weekend" after basic training at Lackland AFB, Texas when the enlisted person graduates Basic Training?

1. Yes, there are. "Navy for Moms" is probably the most active and official, but they certainly exist for the other branches of the service.

2. Yes, there are. There are groups on Facebook and other social media sites for parents, spouses, etc. that share news and trade photos for different ships, units, training schools and the like. Many are run by the units themselves to keep families informed.

3. I don't know, perhaps other parents can speak up.

I'm not saying this in defence of helicopter parenting, I just want to point out that this site is far from unique. In fact, at least on the Navy side, it has been my experience that far more information is available to families of enlisted personnel and those in OCS programs than for those in ROTC or the Naval Academy.

 

[patentesq]

Sparrow; you hit on a major point that SO MANY simply can not grasp.

Christcorp, simply because people don't fully subscribe to what you think is the "proper" parenting technique, does not mean that they are idiots and cannot grasp what you are saying. In fact, it seems rather naive, inexperienced, and arrogant for any parent to assume that she or he has a better handle on parenting than anyone else.

And each child is different. Gen. Douglas MacArthur and Franklin Roosevelt both had notorious helicopter mothers, and they certainly turned out okay. Charles Manson's parents took the "hands off" approach, and he didn't fair so well.

I think everyone here understands full well how best to raise their children. I appreciate your view, though.

 

[Christcorp]

Hokie; point well taken. The point I was making in reference to the forums was a place for those interested in enlisted would come to. I'm sure with the invention of facebook there are definitely sites where squadrons, bases, ships, etc... post of their escapades. And especially with middle east deployments over the last 10 years, more parents are online chatting with each other and providing support. But I still insist that they are not the same as the forums, parent groups, etc... for academy and ROTC students.

Why? Because it's a totally different mentality. Many parents of academy and ROTC cadets still consider their son/daughter "Students". College students to be more specific. They will see them at thanksgiving, christmas, spring break, and summer vacation. (At MINIMUM). The enlisted force isn't that way. Unless they have saved up their leave (Vacation time) 2.5 days per month; they aren't going home for 3 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks at christmas, a week during the spring, etc... Enlisted parents recognize their son/daughter as now being part of the military. Being responsible for their own actions. Living on their own. etc... Many academy/rotc cadet parents think of their children simply as "Being away at college". It's definitely a different mind set.

 

[Christcorp]

Christcorp, simply because people don't fully subscribe to what you think is the "proper" parenting technique, does not mean that they are idiots and cannot grasp what you are saying. In fact, it seems rather naive, inexperienced, and arrogant for any parent to assume that she or he has a better handle on parenting than anyone else.

And each child is different. Gen. Douglas MacArthur and Franklin Roosevelt both had notorious helicopter mothers, and they certainly turned out okay. Charles Manson's parents took the "hands off" approach, and he didn't fair so well.

I think everyone here understands full well how best to raise their children. I appreciate your view, though.

As well as I appreciate your view. I never mentioned that my parenting skills was better than anyone elses. But I will say that being a Helicopter parent "In the TRUE MEANING of the term" is wrong. Some can justify it all they want, but it's wrong. As I mentioned in the previous post about different mind sets among parents who's child "enlists" in the military, and the parent of an academy/rotc cadet; a true helicopter parent of a cadet is actually disrespecting their child and saying that they aren't ready and mature enough to be in the military.

My point, emphasizing what sparrow so RIGHTFULLY recognized, was that 17-18 year old enlisted members do quite fine being in the military and doing without the help of their parents. WHY then can someone justify that another 17-18 year old, who is smart enough and well rounded enough to get accepted into one of the top-10 universities in the country, is somehow incapable of taking care of themselves? Again, until you've seen both sides, which I have, I think the naive part is for a parent to believe that they are indispensable in their child's life. If a 17 year old enlisted can start their new life on their own; so can a 17 year old cadet. If not..... then they probably don't belong there yet.

 

[Dixieland]

As well as I appreciate your view. I never mentioned that my parenting skills was better than anyone elses. But I will say that being a Helicopter parent "In the TRUE MEANING of the term" is wrong. Some can justify it all they want, but it's wrong. As I mentioned in the previous post about different mind sets among parents who's child "enlists" in the military, and the parent of an academy/rotc cadet; a true helicopter parent of a cadet is actually disrespecting their child and saying that they aren't ready and mature enough to be in the military.

My point, emphasizing what sparrow so RIGHTFULLY recognized, was that 17-18 year old enlisted members do quite fine being in the military and doing without the help of their parents. WHY then can someone justify that another 17-18 year old, who is smart enough and well rounded enough to get accepted into one of the top-10 universities in the country, is somehow incapable of taking care of themselves? Again, until you've seen both sides, which I have, I think the naive part is for a parent to believe that they are indispensable in their child's life. If a 17 year old enlisted can start their new life on their own; so can a 17 year old cadet. If not..... then they probably don't belong there yet.

Another great post, Christcorp.

 

[Pima]

The problem with an internet forum is the fact posters cannot read intonation. Additionally the lag time in responses, which may ratchet up the discussion.

I never perceived what hokiesfan or patentesq did regarding Mike's post.

I looked at it from the perspective that if your 18 yr old went to basic, would you call anyone?

Before you answer that, please starting looking at threads that start with:
~ I called DS/DD's ALO/BGO today to find out ....
~ I called DS/DD's MOC today to find out....
~ I called DS/DD's Regional today to find out...
~ I am stalking the mailbox to see if DS/DD....

Notice the theme? The parent is the theme.

Yes, I know kids play sports, they have after school activities, can't make phone calls in school, etc., etc., etc.! However, they can email and text before school if they need to talk to the ALO/BGO/Regional. The MOC will email/text back too!

If it is so important they will continue to contact, like they did with profsparrow's DS. There is never a need for you as a parent to call because fact is they don't want to talk to you, they want to talk to your CHILD!

If you don't trust the military now with your child, tell me when you will?

Aren't you also saying you don't trust the military with your child's life? If you don't believe your child is mature enough to make that decision than aren't you saying they are not prepared?

Just saying, IMPO if you are a HELO parent in this world it is 1 of 2 reasons. You are not ready. The child is not ready.

If you are ready and believe your child is ready, it will go as follows:

Hug and kiss them goodbye.
Cry as you walk away because a chapter is closing.
Know that their life is just beginning.
Start talking about the day they commission.

There are 2 more things you will do...plan that Thanksgiving weekend, and wish for dirty towels on the bedroom floor, and dishes in the kitchen sink tomorrow!

 

[LineInTheSand]

1. Yes, there are. "Navy for Moms" is probably the most active and official, but they certainly exist for the other branches of the service.

First, "Navy for Moms" is not official.

Second, I don't know of any equivalent for the Coast Guard. Closest thing I can think of is the CGA Parents Association.... which was disturbing to cadets anyway.

 

[Dixieland]

Just saying, IMPO if you are a HELO parent in this world it is 1 of 2 reasons. You are not ready. The child is not ready.

Yes! Excellent.

 

[profsparrow]

I really love this discussion. Several reasons, but one big one is that in addition to being a parent desperately hoping for DS to be appointed to his choice of SA, I have been a Scoutmaster for a couple of decades. My goal is to teach these young men to be of good character, self-reliant, have moral worth, and hopefully to assist them to become Eagle Scouts. Another thing that these very young leaders have to learn is how to recognize and use their resources. I've been pretty successful with that.

What is terribly irritating is when some of these Scouts get to the point where they are needing leadership positions, or to attain some of the more difficult merit badges, the parents want to step in and do it for them. I've had to counsel parents and have not allowed a "board of review" because the Scout did not do the requirement themselves as is required, the parents did. Those parents get pretty angry, but I will not allow one of MY Eagle Scouts to bring the reputation of ALL Eagle Scouts down because I allowed Mom or Dad to cut corners.

What I'm getting at, is I'm familiar with "Helicopter Parents," from a different perspective, but it's the same "malady." One of the best blessings we can give our children is to be a resource. Resources don't make decisions, they just are. Teaching our children to be self-reliant, and self-confident, is what I believe parents should do. Be heavily involved as we're helping them to recognize and use resources to make good decisions, assist in helping them to effectively and thoroughly research important choices. Then allow them to put their feet on their chosen path, and step away. If we've done our job in teaching over the past 18 years, they'll be great, and we'll be justifiably proud of their accomplishments, their decisions, and their life. Most of our job in raising our kids should stop at the front gate of the Academy. I know I'll get teary eyed. I'll think back of all the things I should have done, or said. I'll wish there was more time to teach and talk daily. But that time will be gone. I know DS will do well, he's an awesome young man, and so are the young men and women that are appointed to the academy.

Just one other point...When I was in the service there were two types of officers that I automatically assumed to be great officers. Those who had come up through the enlisted ranks (mustangs), and those who were academy grads. Not that other officers weren't good, I just didn't make that immediate assumption. Primarily because they knew how to recognize and use their resources creatively and effectively.

 

[Tobes]

Yes, I know kids play sports, they have after school activities, can't make phone calls in school, etc., etc., etc.! However, they can email and text before school if they need to talk to the ALO/BGO/Regional. The MOC will email/text back too!

great point, as an appointed applicant I would like to say that if thereis a will there is a way when it comes to phone calls. There were days when I gave up lunch to go into the guidance office and call MOC's offices and my BGO.

Also on the note of helicopter parents, I simply exiled my family from anything academy or nomination related.For interviews I was dropped off and called again when I needed a ride. Now that I have an appointment I talk with my parents about it all the time. IMHO helicopter parents just hurt the applicant and/or cadet from achieving their best.

 

[Dixieland]

great point, as an appointed applicant I would like to say that if thereis a will there is a way when it comes to phone calls. There were days when I gave up lunch to go into the guidance office and call MOC's offices and my BGO.

Also on the note of helicopter parents, I simply exiled my family from anything academy or nomination related.For interviews I was dropped off and called again when I needed a ride. Now that I have an appointment I talk with my parents about it all the time. IMHO helicopter parents just hurt the applicant and/or cadet from achieving their best.

This is a great post. This is how capable, awesome kids operate when Mommy and Daddy stop hovering around micromanaging and helping.

 

[Jcleppe]

This is a great post. This is how capable, awesome kids operate when Mommy and Daddy stop hovering around micromanaging and helping.

When my son's reached 6 months old, I made them change their own diapers.

 

[patentesq]

That ain't nothing, Jcleppe! My DS is so damn tough that when he had appendicitis last year, I became a bit of a helicopter parent and offered to drive him to the emergency room. His response to me was: "Nah, thanks Dad, just hand me the scissors. . . . It must have been the nails you fed me for breakfast this morning."

I started teaching my son to be tough at a very early age, starting with teaching him to swim at the age of two by forcing him to swim the Potomac (we gradually moved to shark-infested waters, and he soon became quite the fast swimmer!). I've heard of some Dads teaching their kids to swim by tossing their kiddos into a quarry, but I wasn't ever able to locate one.

Good thing I did all this, because he would NEVER have made it through R-Day at West Point. And without the surgical experience, he definitely would have stunk as an Army doctor some day (assuming he decides not to branch Infantry)!

 

[Christcorp]

I can see the sarcasm. No problem. I would like to emphasize one point. ALL of my references to Helo parents is about them once they are at the academy for college. high schools in when they are filling out there application, it is a different story. They should definitely be doing most of the work themselves, but parents need to be involved. Teens procrastinate and aren't always on top of things. But once they leave and go to the academy, parents need to back off. The cadet needs to learn to take care of things on their own.

 

[LineInTheSand]

You hover, the only person you're robbing is your child. You're robbing them the pride and experience of achieving something big.

Hold their hands, not only will they remember, but so will their classmates.