Helicopter parents and you

I think I'm middle-of-the-road in terms of engagement, in Army parlance I perform "Bounding Overwatch" while my son engages in the close quarters stuff. Being a retired SNCO I find myself following the USAF OJT model, I try to make sure he takes responsibility for himself - both here and in pursuit of his education and future career. We operate as a team, he is primarily responsible for things such as applications (to all his school choices - not just the USAFA), EC's, being where he's supposed to be and when, etc. He has about 75% ownership of all these processes (including the occasional AW SHUCKS). I try to provide input, guidance, and QC when needed.

I think that, due to the complexity of these things nowadays - the USAFA application alone takes a year - not counting the 4 other schools he's applied to, testing, schoolwork (poor kid's taking almost a full university classload in ADDITION to 4 AP and Honors high school courses) 4 hours a day of football until 2 weeks ago, etc, requires a 2 seat training airframe and an extra pair of eyes (one heads down, one heads up) IMO, but with the clear understanding over who actually has the stick - there's just so much to do and so much that can get lost in the cracks with this many moving parts. It's insane what top flight kids have to go through today just to launch - It sure wasn't that way when I was that age in the 70's - I'm not sure it's a good thing either, often staying up till 2:30 am just to get homework done.

I tell him "Hang in there Buddy, it'll all be worth it" I know I'm right and so does he, but sometimes I think he'd rather just chuck it all and become a beach bum in Hawaii!!!. Being a first generation college graduate myself, I know the value of education and of having someone to guide and help you through the process (I didn't). However, for many parents (and I know plenty of them), I think they lose sight of the boundaries and keep acting as the IP well past the point the Kid should have soloed. It's done with the best of intentions but ultimately, I believe it hurts the youngster and keeps them from developing their full potential - failure is a great learning experience and should be experienced often enough to act as a tool for growth - if they're willing to accept responsibility for it - and THAT"S another thread... :rolleyes:

In the end run, if taken in the right manner, adversity will make them stronger and more resilient- that's why I believe parents should know when to back off. Like my career field motto reads: The Strong Shall Stand... But I still hate to see my son who's an exceptionally motivated young man dead to the world and facedown in the middle of his books at 2:30 am, that's the Dad in me...

Best Regards

Romad
 
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3. LITS, I don't think there is anything wrong with a parent asking a lot of questions and learning a wealth of information from this website or elsewhere and then "paying it forward" and helping others. In my short time on this website, I have rarely seen a parent comment on something he or she did not know something about (sure, folks have different opinions about things, but that does NOT mean they are ignorant or otherwise unqualified to state their opinion -- no one should be condemned for their opinion just because it is different). Also, a parent learns a lot from having a kid who is a cadet at a Service Academy, even though the parent may not have graduated from the SA themselves.

Nothing inherently wrong with passing information, except that the old game of "Telephone" comes to mind. :biggrin:
 
There's a fine -- but critical -- line between being engaged as a parent and "hovering."

If you're a parent, you need to find it. For your child's sake.
 
I don't think that most folks on here are going overboard- there are for sure a few though. My definition of a helicopter pilot is like Potter Stewart's definition of pornography ("I can't define it but I know it when I see it"). I kind of think you are a helicopter parent if you make the contacts that every other kid is making for themselves. In a service academy or SMC environment-to me that would be: you attempting to interfere in internal disciplinary matters, or tng assignments, etc ( a friend of my son's has a mom who teaches ROTC at another university- She arranged for him to get an Airborne school slot last summer (not charged to VMI) OVER the VMI PMS objections.That's Helicopter Parenting!)
The danger of the internet IMHO, is that it makes a lot of what was invisible -readily available to outsiders. Everybody gets to be an Armchair QB- but folks get confused between experience and reading about somebody else's experience. They tend to forget that people- ESpecially young adults and kids - publish their opinions which are not usually the entire picture and they usually don't publish what would put them in a bad light, and of course nobody tells their parents everything they do- so parents especially get a skewed view of reality. So it's really best to step very lightly before jumping in and getting "involved".

On the other hand- I don't think it's helicoptering at all if you give advice to your kid on how he should handle something. Between my wife and I we have 52 years of Army paychecks- I do have a pretty good feel for how the army will react in many situations and I don't see why if my kid asked me how to handle something I shouldn't tell him my experienced opinion. Does that mean I'm calling the Supe or the PMS or Commandant for him? no. But when I graduated from VMI with an RA commission- I was distressed to get orders reporting to Ft Benning the Monday after graduation for a school that started 4 weeks later. USMA guys got graduation leave- but nonUSMA Regular commissions reported immediately becasue we didn't have any leave accrued- even though frankly our suck factor for the past 4 years was at least as high as theirs and we needed the leave. The SP4 admin clerk didn't give a damn about the new 2LT- he would have just let me drive on down to Georgia right after graduation without ONCE suggesting that "hey LT- you could go in the hole for a couple of weeks of leave- by the time you get out of IOBC and Ranger School you will be back in the black". My Dad though knew that was an option - and so armed with my Dad's words on how to handle it- I got my orders changed and went home for 3 weeks to chill out on Nantucket while a bunch of my peers painted rocks for the holding company at Ft Benning. Dad wasn't helicoptering- he was giving me the benefit of his experience and I benefited a lot from it. (And even though I am now in my mid 50s- I still ask his advice with business or even parenting issues. )

so: involved parenting:thumb: Helicoptering:thumbdown:
 
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There's a fine -- but critical -- line between being engaged as a parent and "hovering."

If you're a parent, you need to find it. For your child's sake.

If you're not a parent, it's a whole lot easier to make statements like that. :wink:

I was a much more perfect parent before actually having my kids!
 
Nothing inherently wrong with passing information, except that the old game of "Telephone" comes to mind. :biggrin:

Without your wit, LITS, SAF just wouldn't be the same! Your point about the old game of "Telephone" is well taken!
 
( a friend of my son's has a mom who teaches ROTC at another university- She arranged for him to get an Airborne school slot last summer (not charged to VMI) OVER the VMI PMS objections.That's Helicopter Parenting!)
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Actually, that's flat-out nepotism. But it's good for other people to see it at a young age. It's everywhere, it's not going away, and if you remember how you feel when you saw someone benefit from it, you might not be so keen to engage in it later on in life.

I'm reminded of how nepotism sucks every Sunday afternoon here in the DC area. In Redskins nation, nepotism is spelled "Kyle Shanahan."
 
I hate to think that you would consider any of us to be hovering parents just for asking questions.

I'm fairly new to this forum. Both my husband and I are USAFA grads. Meanwhile, my oldest DD is applying to the CGA and Army ROTC. To say that I'm ignorant on those two choices would be an understatement. I plan on asking tons of questions on this forum, if she gets accepted to either of them. I would be asking the questions for my own education and not for hers.

Over my years of attending spouses meetings, I've often felt that I'm the translator. The husbands use a bunch of jargon that the wives just don't understand. I would often be the only one who could translate "military" into "civilian" English.

If my daughter does have the opportunity to do Army ROTC or attend the CGA, I may need some people from this community to translate for me and would hate for others to think that I'm hovering just because I may be curious in what she is going through.

Since this thread was originally posted, I have found myself deleting some of my question posts I've composed without submitting them for fear that this forum may be judging me. In hindsight, I think that is ridiculous that this thread made me feel that way.

Finally, I'm discovering how easy we had it going to a service academy. I never had to register for classes, let alone pick the day, time and instructor of each coarse, or pay tuition or meal plans, find housing or a roommate, worry about health insurance, etc. All that was done for us. Figuring out this civilian college stuff is definitely a new experience for me. I can definitely understand how someone who is unfamiliar with the military could find applying to academies and ROTC to be confusing and stressful since I'm finding normal college stuff to be confusing and stressful.

Thanks for listening to me....
 
Great post, goldenlion......I agree heartily! Don't delete potential questions....chances are others have the same question !
 
Please don't misunderstand me. I think questions are great. Any of this military stuff is confusing, to say the least. It can even be a little confusing between services. Parents asking questions is good.

I do get a little less impressed when prospective cadets/midshipmen ask questions that make it obvious they've done none of their own research. At my old office, when we would get calls for information that is available to all, some would say "let me google that for you."


The line is crossed when a parent is no longer asking questions, or passively along for the ride, but has inserted themselves in each step, taken up an oar, and undertaken a journey that is for their child (who is now an adult) and his/her shipmates (and whatever each service calls it).

When a parent knows more about the current situations at a school their offspring rarely leave, that line may have been crossed. Enjoying their time and listening to stories is one thing. What I'm talking about is something completely different.
 
Finally, I'm discovering how easy we had it going to a service academy. I never had to register for classes, let alone pick the day, time and instructor of each coarse, or pay tuition or meal plans, find housing or a roommate, worry about health insurance, etc. All that was done for us. Figuring out this civilian college stuff is definitely a new experience for me. I can definitely understand how someone who is unfamiliar with the military could find applying to academies and ROTC to be confusing and stressful since I'm finding normal college stuff to be confusing and stressful.

AINT THAT THE TRUTH!?! My first semester at graduate school I called the front office trying to find out where I'd hear about books. It was getting close to the first class and I like to be well ahead of that. Luckily my fiancee went to URI and told me about half.com.

Of course, I've had some trouble figuring out what is and isn't appropriate in the classroom. It's grad school, so I'm pretty sure PJs aren't as appropriate as I imagine they were in undergrad (not my undergrad, mind you). So far jeans have been acceptable.

I didn't call mom and dad... talked to classmates or people ahead of me in the program.
 
My law enforcement agency answered a call for service this week from a college student who was trapped in her car. Her battery had failed and she couldn't get out because the automatic door locks would not work. She did not know that the little rod sticking out the top of the door panel would manually unlock the door...

That's utterly hilarious. Of course, it wouldn't be if she had gone off a bridge and was sinking into a river.
 
I brought it up prior, but listening to the stories, I can't help thinking about the enlisted corp. They are starting their military journey most times at the same age as cadets. 17-18 years old. There are no parent's clubs; parent's weekends; they don't get traditional christmas, spring, or summer breaks to go home. They earn leave that they have to save up. Almost all of them are in school after basic training. Granted, it's not the same as college, but the environment is similar to the academy. Point is, they are doing quite fine without Mommy and Daddy helping them out. When they came into the military, they did/do it 100% on their own the moment they leave for basic training. Their recruiter was about as informative as a cadet's ALO.

I just find it a little ironic that cadets; individuals traditionally with better gpa's and educational background that those going in enlisted; have all these moms/dads feeling that they need to be involved. Personally, when I see a parent helping their son/daughter at the academy; with anything other than being a sounding board for venting or moral support, I am quite disappointed. Parents can rationalize it all they want, but the truth is: "Little Johnnie or Janie don't NEED your help at all". Sorry, but that's the truth. They may WANT you, but they don't NEED you. And for what it's worth, them WANTING you is a much more fulfilling feeling. If little Johnnie or Janie DO NEED you, then little Johnnie or Janie probably shouldn't be at the academy. They aren't mature enough yet for it.

My theory however is that they DON'T NEED mommy and daddy. Most times it's mommy and/or daddy rationalizing their importance in their child's life. If they'd let their kid go, they'd do just fine at the academy. Unless of course they truly are "Dependent" on mom/dad. And then again, they shouldn't be at the academy.

It's nice to send your cadet care packages. My parents did that for me. It's great to communicate with them, be interested in what they're doing at the academy, arrange the periodic visit/vacation/etc... But there isn't one thing that your cadet needs to do in their cadet/military lives that they NEED you for. I know it's hard for a parent to hear that their kids don't NEED them any longers; but it's the truth. Again; being WANTED by your kids is much more satisfying and fulfilling than them needing you. Unless someone can tell me the significant difference between an 17-18 year old cadet; and a 17-18 year of enlisted airman/soldier/seaman; and why the cadet needs all this family support/assistance and the enlisted new recruit doesn't; I'll have to maintain my position that a helicopter parent is doing more harm than good.
 
One thing I think it is important to understand is the military will lock the parents out once they turn 18.

There is a difference from being a sounding board, or trying to learn about this new life and being the parent calling anyone in authority to defend or assist your child.

The 1st IMPO is not a helicopter parent, the 2nd is. Ask yourself now while they are in the process are you the one contacting DoDMERB, SA directors or ALO/MALO/BGO? If so you are hurting your child. This will be their life soon enough.

Do I think it is fine to ask on sites like this how to navigate the system? Of course, but once you have the info, hand over the contact info to them and leave it to them to get it done. If they are procrastinating in completing it you should ask who wants this more, you or them.

We made it a rule for all 3 of our kids when they became srs. in college. I stated to them, I am not going to college with you, I will not be there to remind you to get it done and it is best you get accustomed to that fact now under our roof than when you hit the real world.

Many of you will have children going to an SA or ROTC. Either way and especially in the traditional college world you as a parent are locked out. Ask your friends with college age children what their biggest pet peeve is about their kids college. I will bet it is the school will not discuss anything with you unless you have their secret double coded password, but yet they have no problem asking you to contribute to their endowment as a proud parent or pulling money every month from your checking account to pay for the school.

The reason why is legally at 18 they are an adult. The military sees it that way too. So next yr if your child is in ROTC and they have yet to pay his book allowance or stipend, do not expect if you call the 1st shirt and ask on their behalf they will answer that question.

You will not only get no answer, but you may label your child in a negative manner within the cadre...Here comes Mommy Cadet Smith to save the day.

Helo parents can also create a negative image for their own child.

Like I said earlier, learning about their new world is perfectly fine. Swooping in to fix a problem in their new world is not perfectly fine.
 
My Son has always known the deal since he was young - We would support and raise him till he completed secondary school and then he had one option:

OUT!

After HS graduation we would let him have a final summer of fun - sleep late, raid the fridge, do some part time work, etc. However, come Fall and time to matriculate, he would have to choose from the following menu:

1. Go to school ( and pay for most of it through his own efforts) and move out

2. Get a job and an apartment and move out

3. Join the military service of his choice and out

4. No option 4, refer to options 1-3.

Ask him, this may be written tongue in cheek but it is and has been the understanding since childhood - We don't want to be obstacles in the path of productive, responsible adulthood by providing facilitation for him to be sitting in our basement in his underwear at age 40 - We know too many of those and it AIN'T Gonna happen with this one (cardboard box in the alley maybe)... :shake:

Best
 
Romad, the best advice I ever received from my father was this:

"Son, don't be an idiot."

I frequently draw upon that sound advice and ask myself in any given situation, "[patentesq], what would an idiot do in this particular situation?" I then try very hard NOT to do that thing.

Excellent advice that I plan to pass on to my son someday.
 
I brought it up prior, but listening to the stories, I can't help thinking about the enlisted corp. They are starting their military journey most times at the same age as cadets. 17-18 years old. There are no parent's clubs; parent's weekends; they don't get traditional christmas, spring, or summer breaks to go home. They earn leave that they have to save up. Almost all of them are in school after basic training. Granted, it's not the same as college, but the environment is similar to the academy. Point is, they are doing quite fine without Mommy and Daddy helping them out. When they came into the military, they did/do it 100% on their own the moment they leave for basic training. Their recruiter was about as informative as a cadet's ALO.

I just find it a little ironic that cadets; individuals traditionally with better gpa's and educational background that those going in enlisted; have all these moms/dads feeling that they need to be involved. Personally, when I see a parent helping their son/daughter at the academy; with anything other than being a sounding board for venting or moral support, I am quite disappointed. Parents can rationalize it all they want, but the truth is: "Little Johnnie or Janie don't NEED your help at all". Sorry, but that's the truth. They may WANT you, but they don't NEED you. And for what it's worth, them WANTING you is a much more fulfilling feeling. If little Johnnie or Janie DO NEED you, then little Johnnie or Janie probably shouldn't be at the academy. They aren't mature enough yet for it.

My theory however is that they DON'T NEED mommy and daddy. Most times it's mommy and/or daddy rationalizing their importance in their child's life. If they'd let their kid go, they'd do just fine at the academy. Unless of course they truly are "Dependent" on mom/dad. And then again, they shouldn't be at the academy.

It's nice to send your cadet care packages. My parents did that for me. It's great to communicate with them, be interested in what they're doing at the academy, arrange the periodic visit/vacation/etc... But there isn't one thing that your cadet needs to do in their cadet/military lives that they NEED you for. I know it's hard for a parent to hear that their kids don't NEED them any longers; but it's the truth. Again; being WANTED by your kids is much more satisfying and fulfilling than them needing you. Unless someone can tell me the significant difference between an 17-18 year old cadet; and a 17-18 year of enlisted airman/soldier/seaman; and why the cadet needs all this family support/assistance and the enlisted new recruit doesn't; I'll have to maintain my position that a helicopter parent is doing more harm than good.



Of course, not all of those enlisted members excel. It was 18-20 year old enlisted members who got a VAST majority of the focus when it came to misconduct in various port calls, in general received more non-judicial punishment, get into trouble etc. Some of them live pay check to pay check, wasting it on cars they don't need or on the kids of women they knew for a week. Never forget a certain seaman talking about marrying a girl (with a kid) who had no career because he felt like she was "the one" despite a vast majority of the time he'd known her (less than two months) was while he was underway and far from that home port mistress. Against the counseling of myself, and a chief, he went forward with rushing the relationship. Their shipmates, the leadership at their commands..... those become a family away from home, and they help build each other. Sometimes they fail, but that's just part of life anywhere. Point is, they aren't wondering stars...they have a foundation that was built by their families.... and now it's time for the little birdies to fly... let 'em try.

I was a 1/c cadet on a cutter in 2005. We had a seaman apprentice who's parents lived just a couple of hours away. This kid was a crier. Anyway, it would have likely been better for him to be far away from his mother, as it was a negative situation. Eventually he broke into her house and was arrested.
 
Romad, the best advice I ever received from my father was this:

"Son, don't be an idiot."

I frequently draw upon that sound advice and ask myself in any given situation, "[patentesq], what would an idiot do in this particular situation?" I then try very hard NOT to do that thing.

Excellent advice that I plan to pass on to my son someday.

VERY good advice :thumb:, my Dad told me "Be anything you want to be, but be a man, don't be a Whuss" His total lack of PC was due to 2 Pacific assault landings and going up and down the Korean Peninsula a couple of times with Chesty Puller. I've tried to tone it down with my son. I tell him, "Always think Operational Risk Management Buddy, if you're about to do something that should be prefaced with "HEY!!! Watch THIS!!!!" - you may want to reconsider.... :biggrin:

He's listened so far (but then there was the case of the Mulberry tree, the trampoline, and...) :rolleyes:

Best!
 
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