High school juniors/seniors going through the application process

Memphis you are exactly right....however, if a BGO, teacher or school official provides a comment to the Admissions Board that they are concerned with or the student was involved in a character review board situation, the multiple may not matter regardless of how high it was from all the other data. Bottom line is that candidates and parents need to stop worrying about the multiple. I can't tell you how many times Dean Latta has said this to BGOs. The multiple is an entering argument...keyword: ENTERING.
 
frenzymando said:
That's not a very detailed breakdown, and not really what I was talking about. There is a breakdown that is much more detailed that tells you the exact point value playing specific sports is worth(ie varsity letter in football is worth x points, varsity letter in soccer is worth y points) and the exact point value that you get from each point in each section of the ACT. It also tells you how much specific extracurricular activities are worth. I don't think very many candidates have access to this formula. The formula you are talking about really isn't all that useful imo.
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I have NEVER seen that on this board. I'm not denying it exists, but it is closely guarded. I've seen former FFR's slip and give point values to certain things, but never the whole matrix. I hope the WCS calculation remains inscrutable to those outside admissions.
 
I've seen the the WP breakdown in an old post. So, I know it exists. I'm not sure if it has changed since then or not.
 
The Rand Corporation completed a study for West Point. From the report:
"This report answers two key questions by examining the relationship between pre-admission information on applicants to the United States Military Academy at West Point (USMA) and two subsequent outcomes. First, do applicants with better results on USMA’s “whole candidate score” (WCS), a major element in admissions decisions, have a greater probability of graduating? Second, do applicants with higher WCSs have a greater probability of remaining in the U.S. Army and being promoted to lieutenant colonel?"
The report can be found here: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR700/RR723/RAND_RR723.pdf
There is a lot of information in the report on the WCS, and its calculation and its effectiveness. If you have a few hours you can pour through the report.
You can find great stuff on the internet with google.
USNA commissioned a similar report in 2015 to determine the effectiveness of the WCS. I found the sole source requisition, but I could not find the report.
 
5Day said:
The Rand Corporation completed a study for West Point. From the report:
"This report answers two key questions by examining the relationship between pre-admission information on applicants to the United States Military Academy at West Point (USMA) and two subsequent outcomes. First, do applicants with better results on USMA’s “whole candidate score” (WCS), a major element in admissions decisions, have a greater probability of graduating? Second, do applicants with higher WCSs have a greater probability of remaining in the U.S. Army and being promoted to lieutenant colonel?"
The report can be found here: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR700/RR723/RAND_RR723.pdf
There is a lot of information in the report on the WCS, and its calculation and its effectiveness. If you have a few hours you can pour through the report.
You can find great stuff on the internet with google.
USNA commissioned a similar report in 2015 to determine the effectiveness of the WCS. I found the sole source requisition, but I could not find the report.
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There's also a master's thesis that was done about WP WCS. IMO it's a lot better than that rand study because it tells you how to calculate a lot more things and is also a bit more detailed. It's from 2013 so it might be a bit outdated though.

http://calhoun.nps.edu/bitstream/handle/10945/34647/13Jun_Comeaux_Aris.pdf

If you ctrl+f "ACTM" it will go to the part that is useful. If you read through the whole thing you can find some other useful stuff too.
 
Thanks frenzymando.
This is all good information, and I would think that USNA WCS is very similar, but at the end of the day all it does is gives you some idea what is important to the academies. Which is what almost anyone applying already should know and the same advice given to every "am I competitive" thread. Be the best applicant you can be, because you don't know who you are competing against.
Be first in your class
Max the SAT/ACT
have great letters of recommendation
be captain and varsity letter in multiple sports
Be president of your class, eagle scout, attend boys/girls state, president of student council.......

And since there will be very few, if any, candidates that max out all the categories, all you can do is apply and be the best candidate you can be, and wait for that BFE.
 
To the OP (since this thread seems to be off on a wild tangent ride), my tidbit of advice would be to appreciate the weight that good recommendation letters will carry (not can, but will). The admissions website/officers don't really publicize it, but you can actually submit extra letters of recommendation from sources other than your math and English teachers. As I learned, this can be a great way for you to showcase those intangible qualities that can't be expressed with test scores and would sound egotistical if included in your essay.

That said, if you choose to take this golden opportunity, make sure you use it to its fullest potential: i.e., choose people who have known you for a long time, who have witnessed those intangible qualities about you enough that they have plenty to write about, and who you trust as solid writers. I played on a single club lacrosse team for 7 years under a single coach the whole time, while playing for this coach my leadership abilities grew exponentially, and the coach was a well-educated guy, so naturally I asked him for one, which he gladly wrote. Obviously I can't know for sure, but I have a good feeling that this extra letter, along with another from someone similarly qualified, set my application apart from the hundreds of other candidates with test scores, class ranks, and ECA's identical to mine--which is the name of the game in the SA admissions process.

Remember, though, these are a supplement to your application, I would advise two extras at most. After that the admissions board will probably get bored.
 
I would add that you need to make sure an additional LOR is relevant and could add something that is new and not likely already found in other parts of the application. An additional LOR that is redundant will not help. In Ben's case...the coach was not a family friend (per se), had direct observation of the candidate longer than any high school official could have had, and could probably talk about details, growth, and potential. You could easily substitute "coach" with religious/faith leader, etc. Again, if the additional LOR is written by someone who knows the candidate over a relatively short period and essentially will say the same thing in the application, then it isn't beneficial. There are exceptions...but candidates and parents need to use common sense and weigh whether the Admissions Board will REALLY benefit from the content of the letter vs. the time it takes to read it...if it isn't an overwhelming "yes," I don't recommend submitting it. The reason it isn't really publicized is because, for the most part, additional LORs don't really help in the decision making.
 
usnabgo08 said:
I would add that you need to make sure an additional LOR is relevant and could add something that is new and not likely already found in other parts of the application. An additional LOR that is redundant will not help. In Ben's case...the coach was not a family friend (per se), had direct observation of the candidate longer than any high school official could have had, and could probably talk about details, growth, and potential. You could easily substitute "coach" with religious/faith leader, etc. Again, if the additional LOR is written by someone who knows the candidate over a relatively short period and essentially will say the same thing in the application, then it isn't beneficial. There are exceptions...but candidates and parents need to use common sense and weigh whether the Admissions Board will REALLY benefit from the content of the letter vs. the time it takes to read it...if it isn't an overwhelming "yes," I don't recommend submitting it. The reason it isn't really publicized is because, for the most part, additional LORs don't really help in the decision making.
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I totally agree; if you decide to submit an additional LOR, it must be unique-in that what the recommender has to say not only isn't found anywhere else on your application, but maybe can't otherwise be put in your application. Looking back at my last post I didn't really emphasize that as much as I should have. Just to give you some ideas, one example of this might be development over time-which my coach wrote about. Other examples might be ability to adapt to changing circumstances, or leadership abilities given a formal position (such as a club office or boy scout leadership position in which you excelled). Like usnabgo said, if the admissions board won't definitely gain something from it, it might be better to go without.
 
Ben_m_usna2020 said:
I totally agree; if you decide to submit an additional LOR, it must be unique-in that what the recommender has to say not only isn't found anywhere else on your application, but maybe can't otherwise be put in your application. Looking back at my last post I didn't really emphasize that as much as I should have. Just to give you some ideas, one example of this might be development over time-which my coach wrote about. Other examples might be ability to adapt to changing circumstances, or leadership abilities given a formal position (such as a club office or boy scout leadership position in which you excelled). Like usnabgo said, if the admissions board won't definitely gain something from it, it might be better to go without.
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Not sure about the value of an 'extra' LOR, some folks in admissions might see that as an inability to follow instruction. Or worse, the rules are different for you because you're special if only admissions could see it.

If Admissions is reviewing your package, you are smart, athletic, and bring a lot to the table. The problem you face is - so is everyone else

Just like all cadets/Mids will quickly learn the answer to a yes/no question is binary. It is not 'yes but...'

As for the WCS formula - though an interesting argument, you must realize The SA's are highly competitive schools but as a general rule you are not competing with everyone, your competition is primarily within the group on the same nomination slate as you. Also, right or wrong, your demographic make-up is considered as well as your ability to contribute to varsity athletics.

Do your best and start preparing early by making good grades, actively participating and leading in organizations, and be very physically fit.

But knowing the formula won't change who you compete against and having a higher number than a candidate from another state isn't a guarantee you will get appointed before them.

The 'needs of the military' comes first and is not always 'fair'. Though SA admissions strives to be as 'fair' as it can be, it is not merely a mathematical formula.

And as a USAFA grad, if you do get in - you will wonder how you were given an appointment and you will definitely wonder how some of your classmates ever received an Appointment. : )
 
What is put out by USNA Admissions about LORs is what I posted. They are not required nor desired, unless they somehow add to your record that isn't found elsewhere in the application. So it has absolutely nothing to do with the "inability to follow instructions" or thinking you are "special," as Admissions has said additional LORs are okay under certain circumstances. Just make sure you aren't wasting someone's time by having them read a letter that tells them nothing different.
 
DS submitted an additional LOR well after his app was listed as complete. I hope that it does not serve as a mark against him. It was a letter he had requested early on but it was very late to arriving. BGO advised early on not to send in additional LORs unless it would add something that might otherwise be "missing" from the total package. In this case, DS thought that this letter addressed a critical component in the process. After much deliberation the reason he finally decided to send it to USNA was that the author was able to aptly and eloquently describe one of my son's most exemplary leadership roles.
 
My point is not to discredit anyone's accomplishments as a teenager, but to point out that what many parents/administrators find to be 'exemplary' conduct/action in the local high school are often 'normal' conduct for the type of people you will find as classmates at a US Service Academy.

A guy in the class behind me at USAFA was in the military police as a lowly one-striper. He was responsible for guarding a strategic asset. One day, a group of visitors including a 3-star showed up to tour the asset and they weren't on 'the list'. As they stepped over the yellow line, this young airman politely invited them to lay flat on the pavement with a loaded weapon pointed at his guest's head. The O-6 accompanying the 3 star was yelling and screaming at the lowly one-striper who was executing the last order he received under a now a very stressful environment. And he continued to do his job, until his commander arrived to sort it out.

In the end, the O-6 was fired and the 3 star asked the one-striper if there was anything he could do for the one-striper who said he had always hoped to go to USAFA.

There is a USAFA football player who at first declined his Appointment because his family needed the money he earned working part time to pay basic bills, so the USAF sent him to the Prep School for a year because it allowed him to send more $ home than if he was a C4C.

These are just a couple of stories of 'exemplary' performance and doesn't even begin to discuss the prior service guys competing for appointments with deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan and other such places where we don't even admit to operating who would never even consider their experience to be 'exemplary' (though their peers would say otherwise).


The traditional 'welcome to the service academy' lecture is a cautionary tale. 'You (as a class) are the best America has to offer, but you (the individual) may find it difficult to stand out like you did in high school.'

So if you choose to send in that 'additional' LOR because your DS/DD did something 'really special' in high school, remember the people reading it will have witnessed and read some pretty special resumes already.

With that said, don't downplay your accomplishments, but realize in the broader picture who they are competing is not an ordinary group.
 
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