High school ranking and rigor

[seb.g.b]

Hello all,

I have a question regarding my high school and its rigor. First off, I'd like to state that all that I am going to say is in no way shape or form me trying to brag about my status whatsoever, but merely to help you get a better understanding and hopefully give me a better answer in regards to my question.

My high school is one of, if not the best in my state, and is in the top 20 in the nation according to US News. Because of this, our course rigors are much more challenging themselves as compared to other schools, and my ranking is a lot lower than what it could be compared to if I were at another school. For example, last year a class I took was AP Euro. Both semesters, I recieved a B, while my friend at another high school recieved A+'s both semesters as their workload is considerably easier than ours. However, on the AP test, I scored a 4, while he scored a 2, showing I was much more prepared for it compared to him although he had higher grades than me in his class. This can also be seen in other classes we have that is the same. For example, last year we both took honors pre calc. His workload, again, was considerably easier than mine, and probably only covered half of what we covered the whole year. Again, I got grades of B's while he got A's both semesters although in the system, it shows we have the same class despite my class rigor being much harder. I'm saying this because, as compared to AP tests, they have no way to see the difference in our knowledge learned from the class. My school also doesn't have any regular classes. All classes are either honors or AP, making me take honors classes which I get B's in, dropping my GPA.

Bring me to my next point, my GPA. As a result of our school forcing us to take certain classes that are honors, it caused my overall GPA to drop. My average UW gpa is around 3.3, while my W is around a 4/4.1. Again, had I been at another school such as my friends, this would be much different as I could get A's much easier with less effort as compared to my school. Because comparing GPAs to SAT scores, while my friend has a higher GPA than my by around .4 points both UW/W, my current SAT score is much higher than his, by about 150 points.

My final point is how my school and GPA makes my school rank drop immensely. My school doesnt rank, but if I had to guess I'd probably say im in the bottom 25%. Let me explain why. I don't mean to sound offensive saying this, but being straightforward, due to my school and its type, most people there are "nerds." Only about 30% of my grade, including me, plays sports. On top of that, I have a good amount of ECs that take up time. Those who generally do well don't do sports nor necessarily have much ECs they have to balance on top of school as compared to me, allowing them to have a much higher GPA. In comparison, they may have about 6 hours every day to study, while I only have about 2, and that's after sports and all so Im very tired.

So, I'm wondering, how does my high school, with how it affects my GPA due to class rigor and class rank due to how my class is, affect my chances? Will the admissions officers understand my situation? Because looking at it from an admissions view comparing me and my friend, I have a 3.3UW/4 W GPA and 1500 sat, while my friend has a 4.0UW/4.5 W and 1330 sat.

Any answers are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[justdoit19]

Your situation is not unique at all. The strength of your school is considered. Similarly, a ‘weak curriculum’ school is also considered. You school sounds like a bonus. USNA will actually know your school profile. Especially if others have attended before you and done well! Taking challenging classes and receiving a B is better than easier ones and getting an A.

What’s important is how you did, not your friend. So stop even considering your friend and their gpa. Additionally, USNA looks at the whole person, not only academics.

All you can do is present your best package. Period. And frankly as a senior, the ‘school side’ of your package is about over at this point. The only thing left for the most part is a couple standardized test dates if you want to do that.

You can make yourself crazy comparing yourself to others. But that is a fruitless waste of energy. There are so many other areas gauged where you cannot compare yourself to others: essay, interviews, CFA, etc. Academics is only a (big) part, and yes USNA will know from your school profile the strength of your school.

BTW, standardized tests are a great equalizer of exactly your
circumstance....

 

[NJROTC-CC]

So, I'm wondering, how does my high school, with how it affects my GPA due to class rigor and class rank due to how my class is, affect my chances? Will the admissions officers understand my situation?

That's why there are standardized tests like the SAT and ACT. A 1500 SAT score proves you have the ability to succeed at USNA in my opinion. And of course, admissions considers the school and classes you are taking. Just focus on putting together the best application you can.

 

[THParent]

A 1500 is a solid SAT score. If you can get a 35 on the ACT, it will be all the better. If you are planning on ROTC as your plan B, make sure you check into whether or not you need to take the essay portion of the ACT. I think that you do, but do your research.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

A 1500 is a solid SAT score. If you can get a 35 on the ACT, it will be all the better. If you are planning on ROTC as your plan B, make sure you check into whether or not you need to take the essay portion of the ACT. I think that you do, but do your research.

I have never heard of a requirement to take BOTH the SAT and the ACT for service academies or ROTC. Thought it was just one or the other. Please correct me if I am not properly informed.

 

[THParent]

Oh? Maybe I'm crazy then. My DS took both. Everyone he knows took both. There may not be a requirement, so that's why I always advise to do your research.
Things change all the time, and my knowledge of that is now 2 years old.

 

[20avva]

AFROTC scholarship only requires SAT OR ACT, not both. Essay is not required.

 

[brewmeist]

I have never heard of a requirement to take BOTH the SAT and the ACT for service academies or ROTC. Thought it was just one or the other. Please correct me if I am not properly informed.

@THParent didn't say it was a requirement.

 

[justdoit19]

It’s generally thought (and both DS’s were told from USNA) that taking both is a good IDEA, as a student may test higher on one than the other, SA’s accept either, so its a way of putting forth your best self. My current applicant was even told USNA can (does?) superscore even between the two tests.

I don’t believe it’s a REQUIREMENT they take both. Rather a really good idea. It should be very clear on each academies instructions to candidate.

 

[seb.g.b]

Your situation is not unique at all. The strength of your school is considered. Similarly, a ‘weak curriculum’ school is also considered. You school sounds like a bonus. USNA will actually know your school profile. Especially if others have attended before you and done well! Taking challenging classes and receiving a B is better than easier ones and getting an A.

What’s important is how you did, not your friend. So stop even considering your friend and their gpa. Additionally, USNA looks at the whole person, not only academics.

All you can do is present your best package. Period. And frankly as a senior, the ‘school side’ of your package is about over at this point. The only thing left for the most part is a couple standardized test dates if you want to do that.

You can make yourself crazy comparing yourself to others. But that is a fruitless waste of energy. There are so many other areas gauged where you cannot compare yourself to others: essay, interviews, CFA, etc. Academics is only a (big) part, and yes USNA will know from your school profile the strength of your school.

BTW, standardized tests are a great equalizer of exactly your
circumstance....

Thank you for your response sir. However, I'm not comparing myself to him in that was as I know we have 2 completely different situations, and I know, not in any way trying to brag, my academics are better than his, however I merely did so so I can just show the amount of rigor my school has compared to his.

However, how would this affect my answer as to my class rank? Because if I was going to say honestly, I'm probably in the bottom 25% of my class, however I know that won't necessarily look too good in USNA eyes. There's no official class rank so I just give an estimate. Should I just give a high estimate or what should I do in that matter?

 

[justdoit19]

Your situation is not unique at all. The strength of your school is considered. Similarly, a ‘weak curriculum’ school is also considered. You school sounds like a bonus. USNA will actually know your school profile. Especially if others have attended before you and done well! Taking challenging classes and receiving a B is better than easier ones and getting an A.

What’s important is how you did, not your friend. So stop even considering your friend and their gpa. Additionally, USNA looks at the whole person, not only academics.

All you can do is present your best package. Period. And frankly as a senior, the ‘school side’ of your package is about over at this point. The only thing left for the most part is a couple standardized test dates if you want to do that.

You can make yourself crazy comparing yourself to others. But that is a fruitless waste of energy. There are so many other areas gauged where you cannot compare yourself to others: essay, interviews, CFA, etc. Academics is only a (big) part, and yes USNA will know from your school profile the strength of your school.

BTW, standardized tests are a great equalizer of exactly your
circumstance....

Thank you for your response sir. However, I'm not comparing myself to him in that was as I know we have 2 completely different situations, and I know, not in any way trying to brag, my academics are better than his, however I merely did so so I can just show the amount of rigor my school has compared to his.

However, how would this affect my answer as to my class rank? Because if I was going to say honestly, I'm probably in the bottom 25% of my class, however, I know that won't necessarily look too good in USNA eyes. There's no official class rank so I just give an estimate. Should I just give a high estimate or what should I do in that matter?

How do you know you are in the bottom 25%? Is that provided to you from an official source, or are you estimating that? Perhaps your BGO can better answer your question. I would answer the question asked only...I seem to recall DS just simply marking "school does not rank". I don't recall him estimating rank.

Do not fret over this tiny piece of the whole thing. The answer is that it may or may not matter. For sure it is not the ONE single make or break item in the whole application. Your application is looked at in total.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
When I graduated in 1980 from Cornfield High in Loudoun (Lowdown) County, my GPA was 3.4 …. I was proud of it, and I went on to UVA and VT.
.
And to the OP, Him-Hawing, and calling other kids "nerds", may make you feel better, but it doesn't accomplish anything.

Send the Academy everything that you have that is pertinent to the application, do everything they tell you to do, and see what happens …. That is all you can do.
.

 

[Heatherg21]

You wouldn't know your standing in your cohort unless your counselor advised you of that. The counselor will however be asked that question in their evaluation and they will submit a school profile. Just do your very best daily and push yourself. Our DS is attending a small rural public school, listed as #1 in the county and 20th in the state. But he doesn't have options to take AP or IB classes, just honors and dual credit. He doesn't have much access to tech and no access to engineering courses. He only has one language class to choose from. He is maxed out on EC's and has over 520 service hours while in high school and spends almost 2 hours a day commuting to school and work. He was frustrated at boys state and nation when he started comparing his courses to kids who had attended private schools and larger public schools. 24 hours later he made peace with it and we advised him it's all out of his sphere of influence. He has to put his best self and applications forward every day and keep his head down and continue to do his job. That's all any applicant can do. He had an awesome WP interview and felt really good about his BGO interview. He is also really proud of being a smart kid and has managed to balance his smart side with earning a 3rd degree black belt in Taekwondo. If you overthink this it will make you crazy. Good luck to you in this process.

 

[NavyHoops]

Bottom line is your stats are your stats and your buddies stats are theirs. You can’t control it or change it. Being in the bottom 25% of your class won’t help, but your strong school profile and SAT scores will help. Control what you can in this process and comparing yourself, stressing over hypothetical situations won’t help. You are better off going for a run and prepping for your CFA then stressing over this situation. USNA will see your school is competitive, but so are many others. Control what you can... your CFA, your essays, your interview prep... the rest is clutter.

 

[seb.g.b]

How do you know you are in the bottom 25%? Is that provided to you from an official source, or are you estimating that? Perhaps your BGO can better answer your question. I would answer the question asked only...I seem to recall DS just simply marking "school does not rank". I don't recall him estimating rank.

Do not fret over this tiny piece of the whole thing. The answer is that it may or may not matter. For sure it is not the ONE single make or break item in the whole application. Your application is looked at in total.

Yes, it is just an estimate. I only think so because on the app for SS, however if they don't ask for it when applying, then better lol.

 

[justdoit19]

Yes, it is just an estimate. I only think so because on the app for SS, however if they don't ask for it when applying, then better lol.

Oh my, don’t worry about stuff you don’t even need to worry about. Start working through the application. That’s what you need to be doing.

Your question may be a moot point. A Done assume anything.

 

[OldRetSWO]

If I were interviewing the OP, I'd be pretty suspect about his claim of having only 2 hours per day to study while the rest of his classmates had 6 hours per day. I've been a BGO for close to thirty years now and have had dozens of athletes including my own son and that has just not come up before. I'm more familiar with what my kids did and in particular the son who went to USNA. He was a three season athlete, plus a member of the math, science and debating teams. He also worked 10 or so hours per week through must of high school. He generally studied 3 to 4 hours per night plus video games and a fairly active social life.

BLUF: I've had lots of candidates who were athletes and had plenty of time to study.

 

[MidCakePa]

In comparison, they may have about 6 hours every day to study, while I only have about 2, and that's after sports and all so Im very tired.

due to my school and its type, most people there are "nerds."

Be very careful here, if this is how you rationalize or explain your academic results. Communicating these points to justify your grades and rank — say, in the BGO interview — will likely not put you in a positive light.

First, USNA is filled with nerds — nerds who were varsity athletes, all-league athletes, even all-state athletes. They graduated at or near the top of their class, scored very highly on SAT/ACT, and were impactful leaders in their extracurriculars. USNA loves these nerds and seeks them out.

USNA prefers candidates who performed highly despite many challenges — hard school, tons of activities, personal adversity — over candidates who use those challenges as an excuse.

DD took a heavy AP/STEM schedule at a very rigorous private high school. She was captain of two varsity teams, one of which required extraordinary travel. She worked on weekends, tutored kids, held active leadership roles. And yet she found a way to study 5-6 hours per night. It wasn’t easy and she missed a lot of sleep. But she found a way and graduated near the top of her class.

USNA loves candidates like that because should you get there, you’ll be required to take 17-19 units per semester, participate in athletics, fulfill military obligations. There’s never enough time. Such is life at an SA. If your class rank there keeps you from getting something you want, you won’t be able to point to the nerds.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

Don’t know what OP meant by “nerd,” but to me a nerd is someone who does nothing but study. By that definition, there are no nerds at USNA. And you are not competing with “nerds,” you are competing with well-rounded individuals who get it all done and make no excuses.

 

[Sydney C.]

Any answers are greatly appreciated. Thank you!

OK.....Be brutally honest with yourself about what it is that you want to do. The more you can focus the more time you’ll have. And the more time you have, the more you’ll be able to achieve. Sometimes you need to be reminded of this:

“Lack of direction, not lack of time, is the problem. We all have twenty-four hour days.” — Zig Ziglar

(PS....my own DS had his own set of ambitions while at USNA e.g. Trident Scholar, post grad fellowship, blah, blah, blah. "What is it holding you back dude?" said Dad...." Need to find the time to set a new world record in credit hours for a semester and kill it" replied junior. "Well?" .....He set the record...23 hours (with special permission of course) and achieved those goals.)


“The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.” — Stephen R. Covey