Holy Shnikies!

For Soldiergriz:

Here you go (with names):

https://www.si.com/college-football/2014/08/21/army-black-knights-jeff-monken
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...f08694-97fa-11e3-afce-3e7c922ef31e_story.html

As an aside, the above is not meant to suggest USNA and/or USAFA aren't doing the same thing. USAFA got "caught" doing it in their "heyday" (when they were routinely beating the other SAs) and there are certainly more than a few articles out there about USNA as well.

I'm not sure these articles support your initial claims "winning at all costs" ...committing additional AOG resources, using the prep school to prepare athletes academically, hiring and paying an excellent coach, improving off season and strength training....

Sounds like a Division 1 football program. If you want to talk about whether we should have these teams, that's a different thing. But, establishing a principle that winning matters is purely consistent with West Point core values. They talk about winning all the time...the entire Corps.

Do you have evidence academic standards have slipped? Or, any of the other issues alleged by the single author? What should change in your opinion...other than losing to Navy?
 
I originally wrote that there were articles that stated that senior Army officers were committed to a winning USMA football team at all costs. You challenged me to provide those articles. I've done so. I have no idea whether the allegations within them are true. I would note only that the articles were written well before Army started winning -- res ipsa loquitur.

I was actually glad to see Army start winning against Navy after 14/15 years (and if you search my old posts you can verify this). My personal view (and it's only that) is that extended winning streaks (4+ years) by one SA against the others aren't good. Rivalries are best when there is equality between the teams (see USNA/ND for an example of where that no longer exists). That is the last I have to say on this subject.
 
It is the phrase "at all costs" that is toxic in my opinion...I simply don't know what it means.

Personally, I cheer for all the academies at every single sport...until they play WP.

I am also done. Thanks for the articles, I had not seen them.
 
In general, athletic recruitment at most colleges has gotten out of hand, and it has an especially large impact at smaller academic schools like the Ivy League. My good friend's son is an excellent wrestler. He'll be heading to Penn next year. Let's just say it's beyond ridiculous from an academic standpoint that he's going to Penn. My friend readily agrees, but obviously he's not turning it down. Does Penn need a really good wrestling team? One could argue Football and Basketball help schools financially (though many operate at a loss) and by raising their profile nationally to increase recruiting of academic students. Even Duke was not ranked as highly in the US News-type rankings until their run of 4 final fours started their dominance in 1989.
The difficulty is that, you have more and more kids applying to college in general and with the emphasis on other newer sports like women's lax etc, there are a lot of kids there for sports who wouldn't come close to getting in academically, and keeping a lot of qualified academic kids out, especially at smaller schools. Add in legacies, and it doesn't seem like that's the optimal mix of students at top schools.
Certainly sports play a huge role in building up character, fitness etc and that's great (though bad that their early 'professionalization has led to declines in youth sports participation). But participating and working hard are the most important things, it's weird how schools have become athletic factors and minor leagues for professional sports leagues.
At USMA, which is both small and also has its broader and more important mission, it's natural to feel that if indeed standards are lowered for recruited athletes like at other schools (I can't possibly imagine they aren't), a lot of alums (of which I am not) would be concerned about that. I would imagine the most important thing is beating Navy, and if Navy, Army and USAFA all played in smaller divisions, the relative competitiveness / rivalry would remain without the downsides that come with seriously competing in D1 football, which are well-documented in hundreds of articles.
Just my $0.02 on an issue that goes well beyond the SAs.
 
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