Honesty is the best policy but is it...

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Firecracker070403

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Before I say this, I do believe one should always tell the truth I just want to hear different opinions. I have always been told honesty is always the best path. Keeps you from having to remember that lil white lie, saves you from snowballing that lil white lie into a web of lies that you cannot remember. Yet time after time people get caught lying. I will be honest I have lied; we all have at some time or another. We watch others lie, we watch politician's lie, if not lie at the bare minimum deceive (which in my opinion is basically lying). Some people lie to keep others from suffering more than they have to, others lie to keep themselves from punishment, others to avoid embarrassment, others to look better to peers, etc. I do not know why but in today’s society I see people lying everywhere. I have seen several posts about people lying on these forums. Everywhere you look there is some sort of lie. At the SA, the cadet honor codes all involve the phrase "A cadet will not lie"; yet we see/hear applicants lie, we see/hear cadets lie. While my father was in the military, he worked at USMA, he has told me stories of cadets getting caught in a web of lies about insignificant things. Lying is something we see everywhere, but why? Why is it everywhere? Why does it have to be everywhere? Why do people lie? Is lying ever okay? Why or why not?


"The best way to stop others from doing wrong is to stop doing wrong yourself." That is a phrase I have heard growing up that has stuck with me, my parents still tell me this.
 
Firecracker070403 said:
Before I say this, I do believe one should always tell the truth I just want to hear different opinions. I have always been told honesty is always the best path. Keeps you from having to remember that lil white lie, saves you from snowballing that lil white lie into a web of lies that you cannot remember. Yet time after time people get caught lying. I will be honest I have lied; we all have at some time or another. We watch others lie, we watch politician's lie, if not lie at the bare minimum deceive (which in my opinion is basically lying). Some people lie to keep others from suffering more than they have to, others lie to keep themselves from punishment, others to avoid embarrassment, others to look better to peers, etc. I do not know why but in today’s society I see people lying everywhere. I have seen several posts about people lying on these forums. Everywhere you look there is some sort of lie. At the SA, the cadet honor codes all involve the phrase "A cadet will not lie"; yet we see/hear applicants lie, we see/hear cadets lie. While my father was in the military, he worked at USMA, he has told me stories of cadets getting caught in a web of lies about insignificant things. Lying is something we see everywhere, but why? Why is it everywhere? Why does it have to be everywhere? Why do people lie? Is lying ever okay? Why or why not?


"The best way to stop others from doing wrong is to stop doing wrong yourself." That is a phrase I have heard growing up that has stuck with me, my parents still tell me this.
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For me, the only type of lying that I think one could argue for is in a dangerous situation, a white lie, or in a parenting situation. Obviously, if someone is kidnapped, they should say anything they can in order to try and escape, so that is pretty clearly justified. White lies, I am still on the fence a bit. If someone asks me how they look, I will probably say good. Being honest all the time can be harmful for relationships if the other person does not understand or want it. Some parents don't tell their young children about death, and many tell their children about Santa and the Easter Bunny. I am not going to tell someone's young child the truth about any of those things. All of that being said, I try to limit how much I lie, and it is really sucky that so many people lie about the smallest of things. My guess is that they want to look good, but I'm no psychologist. Just my two cents.
 
This was a whole class in college for me. It was called ‘The Ethics of Lying’, or something like that. Maybe it was a section in a morality class. It has been a while since my college days.

But your question(s) is one of great debate. And one that has been around since the beginning of time. Personally, I believe the answer is that we all have our own free will. And are all built differently: people are physically different, so are they on the inside. We are shaped by our norms and values. Parenting. Role models. Different experiences. Environment . Peers. On and on. All have an impact on us, but we still make our choices through free will.

IMO, it all boils down to your own moral compass guiding you. As do all things.
 
It's so often not the screwup/crime that gets you in trouble, it's the lie and subsequent coverup.

Case in point today: Andrew Cuomo.
Back in my day: Col. Oliver North.
 
People tell white lies for many of the reasons mentioned above. USNA's current honor officer boiled significant lies down to a lack of courage. We lie because we don't have the courage to do the right thing. It follows that lies to protect classmates stem from a lack of courage, not from conflicts of loyalty.

As mentioned, you can take entire classes on the topic of lying. I thought the above is an interesting tidbit that relates to military and SA life. It is paraphrased from a talk by the honor officer, CDR Vavasseur. She is a fantastic speaker and there is a lot to be learned from her rather controversial career.
 
Skipper07 said:
It is paraphrased from a talk by the honor officer, CDR Vavasseur. She is a fantastic speaker and there is a lot to be learned from her rather controversial career.
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Great SWO who had some bad luck because she did what was expected and required but what was expected and required wasn't the safest option in the conditions that her ship was in. Horrible situation/aftermath and she was not well treated by superiors who didn't necessarily have her level of knowledge.
 
My mid called me one day.

Him: I have something serious to talk with you about.
Me: Is anyone pregnant?
Him: No
Me: Did you take drugs?
Him: No
Me: Did you kill anyone?
Him: No
Me: Well then it can't be that bad. And whatever it is, you'll get through it, and we'll be here to support you.
Him: I signed taps for a friend. I hesitated, but did it anyway. I didn't ask questions. I just assumed he was running a few minutes late. When I learned he was caught, I immediately reported my role. Now I'm waiting.

Everyone lies. My mid made a mistake. Sometimes we learn more from our failures than our successes. As hard as it was to get through it, I think he'll be a better person for it in the long run. I read his required reading "The (Honest) Truth about Dishonesty" along side him. He kept a daily journal, met once a week with an officer assigned to help remediate him, served his restriction and will be a fine officer. Anyone who says they don't lie is a liar, but we can all strive to be honest and think hard about the reasons when we're not.
 
He will learn to trust that hesitation stemming from his moral compass swinging next time. It is a very serious thing to attest with a signature someone is there, when they are not, and known to be not, in the Fleet and Corps, for accountability purposes. Mids don’t get that. Yet.
 
Capt MJ said:
He will learn to trust that hesitation stemming from his moral compass swinging next time. It is a very serious thing to attest with a signature someone is there, when they are not, and known to be not, in the Fleet and Corps, for accountability purposes. Mids don’t get that. Yet.
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He definitely gets it now.
 
MadCat said:
My mid called me one day.

Him: I have something serious to talk with you about.
Me: Is anyone pregnant?
Him: No
Me: Did you take drugs?
Him: No
Me: Did you kill anyone?
Him: No
Me: Well then it can't be that bad. And whatever it is, you'll get through it, and we'll be here to support you.
Him: I signed taps for a friend. I hesitated, but did it anyway. I didn't ask questions. I just assumed he was running a few minutes late. When I learned he was caught, I immediately reported my role. Now I'm waiting.

Everyone lies. My mid made a mistake. Sometimes we learn more from our failures than our successes. As hard as it was to get through it, I think he'll be a better person for it in the long run. I read his required reading "The (Honest) Truth about Dishonesty" along side him. He kept a daily journal, met once a week with an officer assigned to help remediate him, served his restriction and will be a fine officer. Anyone who says they don't lie is a liar, but we can all strive to be honest and think hard about the reasons when we're not.
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I sure hope this case is determined to be relatively minor-given his self reporting. Good luck to your MIDN. I told my DS 3C Mid about this case. Let us know how it turns out.
 
It was a while ago. He's good. Like I said, it was a good lesson. He made a great contact in his remediating officer. In many ways, it was good for our whole family to go through.
 
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