How does a Cadet's rank compare to actual Soldiers?

[hawk]

I really don't think anyone expects a high school kid to have an intimate knowledge of Army regulations regarding rank structure (especially as regards something as esoteric as how a WP cadet fits into it).

Had to chuckle, there is an infamous youtube video showing an encounter between a USMA drill team leader and a pair of USMA Drill Sgt's. There were hundreds of comments debating who was right.

Note the cadets were not trying to usurp authority, just were following the drill rules as published. It was the Drill Sgt's misinterpretation of the rules that led to what they felt was violation of a direct order. Which the cadet's could not execute based on their rules. Which prompted the debate on who outranked who.

Somewhere along the line someone found the UCMJ regs which stated how USMA cadets were positioned. (O-0, if I recall). Since they do not have a commission they cannot issue orders under their own authority. But are also not outranked either.

Strange space. And outside of the drill competition.. if a USMC drill SGT (or any Senior NCO) gives an order to a cadet most would comply I suspect.

 

[LineInTheSand]

It's one of those fuzzy little areas. It's all clearly spelled out, but rubber meets the road... it's still interesting. In would be inappropriate for an NCO to give an order to a cadet.

When i think about it, I got back to my interaction with my company's SCPO (E-8). Old senior chief wouldn't "order" cadets, but he was very good at counseling, having us think about things a different way. Adding senior enlisted to the companies at CGA was a great change. I also think about the way the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Coast Guard (an E-10, although the existence of "E-10" is often debated) approaches cadets. Here is the most senior enlisted person in the service. Even he would not "order" a cadet.


The only exception I have seen of this.... cadets TAD on cutters especially for safety reasons, and 2/c cadets who are trained by Cape May company commanders. That's it. In 9 years, that's where I saw orders...but they are very special circumstances.

 

[MemberLG]

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone for the wealth of responses to my question.

There has been some confrontations among the replies about how there has been a lack of proper research prior to asking this question. I would like to point out that my intent was not to initiate conflict over such a trivial question. I would also like to bring attention to the fact that this question was, in fact, investigated prior to my post. I admit to using Google to look for the answers to most of my questions, and I thank Luigi59 for posting the official Army Command Policy which showcases the answer to my question. I would like to bring up, however, the fact that I would never have had the idea to look under the Deputy Chief of Staff's website, and then under his Command Programs section for an answer to my original question. Yes, some of the older and more experience posters have had their resources limited in their time before the internet, but I just want to say that sometimes the overwhelming number of resources can make it difficult to find the answer to the question. For example, if I were to Google "West Point Ranks Compared to Active Military Personnel," I obviously wouldn't have found the answer to my question. Instead, I would have buried under a number of links which range from "West Point FMWR: Five Star Inn" to "Why Our Best Officers Are Leaving." Now, obviously, the answer was out there as Luigi59 has pointed out. I still have much to learn regarding the internet and specifically the Army's resources, but my main point is that I actually did look for the answer (not just with Google but under Army resources like the Army Field Manuals) to my question and I am humbled and humiliated by those who say that I have not taken the precautions to formulate the answers to my own questions. Yes, I did use Google and maybe I didn't put enough effort into finding the answers to my questions, but I only use the SAF forums as a last resort because I know there are other posts out there which deserve much more attention than my meeble posts. I have learned a valuable lesson today.

Again, thanks to everyone for putting in all of the input. It's appreciated.

There is nothing wrong with starting your question with "I couldn't find the answer when I googled it."

At what point in you life would you be responsible finding the answer for yourself?

At what point are you going to stop saying I am just a civilian?

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to beat you up. Perhaps I am doing it wrong, but I am trying to get you to realize that you have to get serious if you are serious about joining the military. Did I have all the answers when I was at your age - NO. I took a big leap of faith and things worked out for me pretty good. I want kids to make informed decisions, if possible.

 

[bruno]

Ok folks: a quick intervention here. I think that it is important to understand that this forum exists to answer questions. There is nothing improper in asking the question here- nor does the forum have any expectation that a member come to this forum with any prior knowledge of the military or the academies . In short: a place for members to ask their questions as 160thWannabe did, and for more experienced and knowledgeable members to answer those questions is why this forum exists. If we cease to be that place - or make members feel like they should look elsewhere for their information- then exactly WHAT do we offer?

In the future- let's stick to providing helpful answers to the posters questions and avoid making them feel guilty for using our forum to ask questions.
Now back to the thread and question at hand.

 

[That Future Sailor]

I've been thinking about the interaction between the Cadets and actual servicemen and women, and it led to that question. I remember reading a book (I think it was Absolutely American) in which a Cadet goes to some sort of training where the Soldiers treat him like an officer and he feels like he doesn't deserve it (because he isn't an officer yet). The book didn't clarify how the interaction between Cadet and Soldier is supposed to work, so, how is it supposed to work? Who says "sir" to who?

Again, thanks.

Im not sure about USMA, but from the research I've done on the Naval Academy, Midshipmen are considered and treated as officers, as they rank somewhere between warrant officers and commissioned officers. Salutes, Separate berthing, the whole 9 yards.

 

[time2]

You do realize you are posting to a thread that is from 2011?

Probably better to start a new thread then tack onto something where most of those people may not even be active on this forum any longer.

 

[2020HD]

Actually on some forums, it's considered good form to revive a related thread. It shows some respect in that you did some searching on your topic, it resurfaces some of the wisdom of the original replies, and lessens the repetitiveness of the more common questions being asked over and over again. This thread was loaded with links and quotes that would have had to be unnecessarily exhumed by someone else or worse, not posted at all again.
I don't see the relevance of whether the older posters are still active on the board, either. The question isn't really time-sensitive. Active members can reply to an older thread. Had he posted up a new thread, we can assume only active posters would reply anyway.
I do not mean to single you out. Many folks seem to be jolted by an older thread being leveraged.