How Many Have Gone Home?

Not saying they'd look for a UCMJ violation, just saying it exists.

It is in the best interest to keep plebes healthy. Detailers take a lot of ownership over their people. Don't want them to break.
 
I love walking around the Yard while Plebe Summer is in full swing. One "tradition" that still persists (as it did in my day) is that those Plebes on crutches have to hobble along with their platoon wherever they go and do their best to keep up.

You'll see a platoon of singing Plebes march by and, 30 paces back, you'll see a bewildered Plebe, clumsily trying to keep up with crutches. They don't cut them too much slack. If they are the least bit mobile - they are not excused from too much - as it should be.
 
College is tough but, USNA uses very different methods to acclimate their plebes. Some plebes were seriously hurt this summer, list serve is perhaps more frank about this because parents are sharing rather than recruiting.
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I may be in the minority, however I believe it's highly inappropriate to carry forth information from a confidential, private email loop into public forum.
 
breadcrumbs said:
I may be in the minority, however I believe it's highly inappropriate to carry forth information from a confidential, private email loop into public forum.
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I don't see the problem as long as there are no names included.
 
AH! I have seen the "walking wounded" following behind the Platoon with a detailer in tow and doing everything they are physically able to do during each evolution. They usually don't look bewildered but more like dedicated to get there and get it done.
 
AF6872 said:
AH! I have seen the "walking wounded" following behind the Platoon with a detailer in tow and doing everything they are physically able to do during each evolution. They usually don't look bewildered but more like dedicated to get there and get it done.
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Well, I guess I have seen some that were hurt badly enough that keeping up was obviously quite a chore (despite the aid of the crutches) and you could almost read on their face, "How in the hell am I suppose to keep up? This is a little ridiculous."

I'm sure you're right, though. There are others who have that determined look on their face.
 
Re: Academy vs. Civilian college attrition: Not sure what to add by way of opinion, but the data sometimes help.

From the website collegedata.com, which pulls from IPEDS, the following are the rates of Freshman Return, and the 4 Yr. graduation rate for colleges. I decided to sample by starting at US News #19, Notre Dame, skipping 5 places on the list, up through #40. I listed only Private schools, and none that are huge in size. Next are very small Liberal Arts colleges, starting at #10, and again skipping every 5 on the rank order.

It doesn't appear from a distance that the attrition shown in these data at the Academies is notably different from other Universities and Colleges with high admissions standards and rigorous academics... but the reasons are probably very different. For one, these colleges are quite expensive, and it is not uncommon for a student to need to leave because the financial situation at home changes and the family cannot continue even with Financial Aid and Merit money. However, if we go by the seemingly common knowlege that around 20% of first day reports at the three Academies do not graduate, then it does appear to me that the Academies suffer greater attrition than other colleges that are academic peers. If attendance were not almost free, I wonder what he attrition rates would be?

I suspect the data from USNA are a little off... or maybe they don't count the I-day reports who leave during Plebe summer before formal academic instruciton begins. I am certain that far more than 2% of the students arriving at I-Day are not present the first day of sophomore year. My guess would be that around 10% leave prior to Youngster year. I am also relatively certain that about 20 who report on I-Day do not graduate. So these data are... suspect but a starting point.

Here are those data:

School // Freshman return rate // 4 Yr. Graduation rate

School // 1 Yr // 4 Yr
USMA // 95 // 83
USNA // 98 // 88
USAFA // 89 // 78
Notre Dame // 98 // 90
Wake Forest // 94 // 83
Boston Col // 95 // 88
Rochester // 96 // 69
Lehigh // 93 // 77

Haverford // 96 // 87
Vassar // 96 // 90
Bates // 92 // 84
Bryn Mawr // 93 // 80
Holy Cross // 94 // 90
 
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dunninla said:
Re: Academy vs. Civilian college attrition: Not sure what to add by way of opinion, but the data sometimes help.
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With many of these civilian colleges the REASON some of them leave is because of financial concerns. Sure, they got accepted into Notre Dame, but they simply cannot afford to continue at Notre Dame - so they leave.

That is never a reason for leaving a service academy.

All the attrition at the Naval Academy can be attributed to (in no particular order):

1. Being separated due to some kind of deficiency: academic, conduct, honor, medical, physical fitness... Basically, they are kicked out. They would have stayed if they could have stayed.

2. Becoming disenchanted with military service. The classic - "The Navy just wasn't for me" syndrome.

3. Too hard. They grew weary of trying to endure the rigors of the program. Sometimes it's simply homesickness. They go off looking for something easier and less stressful.
 
For students who have worked so hard for over a year to get into the Academy and then don't make it, I can understand why they are interested in this.
 
Where do you find the time ?

I have read this forum for a few years now; and read the many emotional comments about the drop out rate and associated stats. Are you a plebe ? A NAPS graduate ?
 
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