1) not necessary. we have a lot of data and can see patterns over time. any particular "slate" (perhaps this is usma-speak for admissions cycles or classes? Haven't heard it before, which is surprising if it's a standard admissions evaluation grouping) matters less than the large trends.How do you correlate the averages to specific applicants slates?
How do you know that candidate A is better than candidate B in the eyes of admissions? Because A had higher grades?
How do you know the competition on each slate and their WCS and their color etc?
Are you an applicant? Are you a parent?
ah nominating slates. No there is nothing in the files on the nominating source or order in the files. That would have been a helpful data point but alas, here we are. We do note, as JL123 did earlier, that a significant (on order of 20 or 25%) of additional appointee class nominations make the nomination order question less weighty since USMA has discretion with those appointments to bring in whoever they want.Forgive me - I am just a slow parent of some midshipman.
I haven’t seen or analyzed the data. And I would be interested to have my twin brother look at it. He has his PhD in econ and is considered one of the top 3 in the world in his specialty - operations research.
When we get a chance, we will analyze.
Clear up the applicant level issue for me. Does your analysis compare the applicant level for the nominating slates? Because I am sure there are plenty of top students that don’t get in (because others on their slate were higher) while other lesser candidates do get appointed because their competition was weak.
The system and situation are what they are. You didn’t cause it or ask for it. If at some time in the future you are in a position to help change the system for the better (like Clarence Thomas), then by all means address the issue and talk about it and work to try to fix it. If you are not in that type of position but are doing some other sort of work, then (in my opinion) you would be better off not to dwell on it. The reason I say this is because some people become so preoccupied by the injustice of the situation that it ruins their whole lives. They develop bitterness and anger and go everywhere with a chip on their shoulder. It becomes their dominant characteristic and overshadows all their other work.First, I would like to say thank you for all the people who have voiced their insight on this issue.
Personally, as an applicant and posing the question from the opposite side of most people (in so far as I'm receiving the benefits as a "diversity" student) I do have real concerns about the measures taken by the SA's and Universities as a whole.
I don't want to list off my resume because I know that even if I have great test scores, great leadership experiences, and great athletic achievements, thousands of other applicants have the same and even better test scores, leadership experiences, and athletic achievements. I'm just another fish in the ocean.
My big concern is where if I were to receive an appointment, and go an academy, I don't want to go there knowing that my race was what made me a more competitive applicant. It's like being told that you're only good enough if we compare you to other people who look like you. But if we compare you to that white kid across the street, well then you probably wouldn't have made it.
Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong. And I keep being told to just take advantage of what is in place because the world is unfair and you need to learn to work with the system even when you disagree with the system. But I'm applying to the Academy because I understand the importance of integrity and honor. By taking advantage of a system that I would never agree with feels like a complete abandonment of those values.
This particular statement bothers me. High school metrics may be one component to determine who will be successful at a SA. So are test scores. But they sure aren’t the only factor and many factors cannot be measured or analyzed by any data analyst.when they have the opportunity to admit a better performing group?
No one has suggested that females, minorities, sports recruits, or priors all have lower grades than others. That would be crazy.Wading into this swamp of a thread for the last time…
DD, a USNA firstie, checks off two of those boxes. I’d bet a couple paychecks that her high-school transcript and standardized-test scores would beat those of 95% of her white male classmates. Her USNA class rank — both academic and overall — as well as her leadership billets further attest to her qualifications well beyond anything she may have done in high school — or her gender or race.
Not that she gives a rat’s behind! She’d be embarrassed if she read this. For her, it’s all about raw ability and personal performance. She’s no box-checker, just an accomplished mid and future officer who’s earned everything she’s gotten from USNA.
I did take a peek. And I didn’t understand a bit of it. I guess I don’t think with that side of my brain.ah nominating slates. No there is nothing in the files on the nominating source or order in the files. That would have been a helpful data point but alas, here we are. We do note, as JL123 did earlier, that a significant (on order of 20 or 25%) of additional appointee class nominations make the nomination order question less weighty since USMA has discretion with those appointments to bring in whoever they want.
Please do take a look. If nothing else you both will find it an interesting opportunity to drill down into admissions at a level not often presented.
but being a squid sympathizer... say 10 Rockets and that is forgiven.
A big point is being missedNo one has suggested that females, minorities, sports recruits, or priors all have lower grades than others. That would be crazy.
I will admit my sports recruits to a SA had lower grades and test scores than others. And many of their team mates also had lower grades and test scores than others. Got to love prep school
The point was that females, minorities, sports recruits, and priors do make up a significant % of the pleb class. This had nothing to do with your daughter. It has to do with the OP and their worry that there will be less seats for them.
There will be less. It is tougher So they need to hedge their bets and consider other options other than just a or one SA.
A parent of a 6th grader asks me what is the one thing they can do to help their child , that will increase their chances to a SA
Help them get really good at one sport.
Most people don't point out minorities and assume they arrived via the race train. Apply with your qualifications. The admissions process is above your pay grade so don't worry about what your diversity status might have to do with getting in. When you get in you prove your worth by excelling. When you get commissioned you prove your worth by superior performance. There are plenty of white officers who couldn't lead a platoon to the CIF for gear issue. Those you lead will not care how you got in or for that matter from which school you graduated.First, I would like to say thank you for all the people who have voiced their insight on this issue.
Personally, as an applicant and posing the question from the opposite side of most people (in so far as I'm receiving the benefits as a "diversity" student) I do have real concerns about the measures taken by the SA's and Universities as a whole.
I don't want to list off my resume because I know that even if I have great test scores, great leadership experiences, and great athletic achievements, thousands of other applicants have the same and even better test scores, leadership experiences, and athletic achievements. I'm just another fish in the ocean.
My big concern is where if I were to receive an appointment, and go an academy, I don't want to go there knowing that my race was what made me a more competitive applicant. It's like being told that you're only good enough if we compare you to other people who look like you. But if we compare you to that white kid across the street, well then you probably wouldn't have made it.
Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong. And I keep being told to just take advantage of what is in place because the world is unfair and you need to learn to work with the system even when you disagree with the system. But I'm applying to the Academy because I understand the importance of integrity and honor. By taking advantage of a system that I would never agree with feels like a complete abandonment of those values.
This is why the Germans and Japanese were so easy to defeat in WWII?Monocultures are not healthy : choirs can't be all sopranos, football teams can't be only linemen, and an army takes a lot of types of people to fill a lot of roles.
Smart, articulate, measured temperament, brimming with understated self confidence…We’re you Gary Cooper in a previous life?I don’t focus on that, and 99% of the men I work with don’t care either that I’m in a minority group.
I'm not sure who "they" is, but I've been bristling at this comment ever since a read it. Thankfully, cooler heads than mine have responded.My only issue is when they say "diversity makes us stronger" How does it make us stronger? Can they quantify it?