These contracts with the government are pretty one sided. They have lots of outs for about anything. The cadet on the other hand . . . .
How will sequestration effect ROTC?
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EDelahanty
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..also know as the Other Golden Rule: Them what has the gold make the rules.
Of course if you object to this portion of the contract, you can strike a line through the phrase, initial it and send it to the Secretary of Defense requesting he initial it also and return it at his earliest convenience.
-Bull-
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It's been awhile since I've looked at my contract so that phrase is what I wasn't sure about. Thanks for the clarification.
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Just talking to my NROTC son right now and he says the current rumor is that all firsties and 2/c should get cruises. He said for rising sophomores, the units are being asked to rank for Cortramid and they'll send the top 50%. Not sure if that's for his unit or for all of them.
Aglages - does the no money for grad school include AFIT?
Aglages - does the no money for grad school include AFIT?
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Well that's good news. Far better than I expected. Hoping it's good gouge... time will tell. Seems to me they sort of need to lock it down over the next 30 days or thereabouts.... if not sooner.
She did not specify, but I'll ask for clarification.
Unless something had changed in the last couple of years, I believe that NROTC Mids already receive smaller stipends than AROTC and AFROTC.
Pima
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FWIW, somewhere in the Military News threads is an AF slide show link on what they were intending to cut.
I have no bone in this fight so I am too lazy to dig through to find it. IF, and that is a big IF, I recall correctly AFIT was not taking a hit. PME which is not AFIT would take the hit, but not AFIT. IOTW SOS would not occur at the same rate for in-residence as it has in the past.
What needs to be understood is the pot of money they can withdrawal from for sequestration. FY 13 is being hit hard because one hand is tied, and the other hand thinking they were on target, spent 6 months of their 12 month allowance. Hence, that pot is very small which is why some areas are being hit very hard.
I.E. AFROTC already had their funds used up for contracted personnel. They couldn't turn back and hit them...the tuition, book allowance, stipend were spoken for already by Mar.
They couldn't hit ADAF personnel pay.
PME is somewhere they cut hit, along with TA.
Think of sequestration like your family checkbook. Sept. you get paid 100K for the entire yr; 1 lump sum for illustration purposes.
March they come and hit you with saying we are going to cut that to 75K. You still have to pay the mtg (ADAF personnel), you still have to pay the car pmt (AFA/AFROTC tuition cost), and you still have to pay car insurance (Book allowance and stipends) before you move forward.
Where does that leave you...food, gas, utilities, and spending money for movies from a cut point.
That is exactly what the military is dealing with their checkbooks.
Movies (TA). Hurts, but it has no impact on living right now overall (AF WORLD...no flaming from Army, I understand their pain). However, come Oct it may be back, smaller, but there.
Utilities, you lower the heat, and put on a sweater. AFROTC is cutting stipends, and it appears AROTC is giving out more 3 yr than 4 yr, along with more public than private.
Food, you buy store brands instead of Kelloggs, and Oreo's. You still get that item, but you saved some money. Right now they are cancelling some summer ROTC programs for some branches, but they still are getting the treat...an officer with training. It doesn't mean the quality is any less, it is just a different taste.
Silly way to explain it, but for me, in my Polish mind that is how I see it.
I am someone that saw the 92 RIF as an ADAF spouse. To be honest, that was scary. I believe in the military, and I believe they learned from that cut.
Yes, right now it is bad, but come Oct 1st, when FY14 starts, a lot of these fears will not be a factor. A lot will change, and some things may be back.
Come Oct 1st. they know their real budget, and won't be playing catch up. Come Oct 1st, if they decide Malt-O Meal Crunch Berry cereal is just as good as Capt Crunch, that is what they are going to buy.
They are going to spend wisely.
Betting my sweet little Myrtle that AFIT will be an expense on their list that they keep for FY13, might be smaller for 14, but I bet those with an AFIT slot now keep it.
FYI. I don't know if the posters wanting an ED/AFIT are also wanting rated, because that may be a player in the equation. I would suggest to them to reach out to posters like flieger, Christcorp, hornetguy, eagle16 and Bullet. In the rated world delaying UPT has a new set of what life will be like as an ADAF rated officer.
I would reach out to them also via pm regarding non-rated.
Just my guesses. I have no insight or connection. I am only relying on other forums and my personal experience. Throw it in the circular filing cabinet.
Talk to your cadre because they know better than me!
Best thoughts.
I have no bone in this fight so I am too lazy to dig through to find it. IF, and that is a big IF, I recall correctly AFIT was not taking a hit. PME which is not AFIT would take the hit, but not AFIT. IOTW SOS would not occur at the same rate for in-residence as it has in the past.
What needs to be understood is the pot of money they can withdrawal from for sequestration. FY 13 is being hit hard because one hand is tied, and the other hand thinking they were on target, spent 6 months of their 12 month allowance. Hence, that pot is very small which is why some areas are being hit very hard.
I.E. AFROTC already had their funds used up for contracted personnel. They couldn't turn back and hit them...the tuition, book allowance, stipend were spoken for already by Mar.
They couldn't hit ADAF personnel pay.
PME is somewhere they cut hit, along with TA.
Think of sequestration like your family checkbook. Sept. you get paid 100K for the entire yr; 1 lump sum for illustration purposes.
March they come and hit you with saying we are going to cut that to 75K. You still have to pay the mtg (ADAF personnel), you still have to pay the car pmt (AFA/AFROTC tuition cost), and you still have to pay car insurance (Book allowance and stipends) before you move forward.
Where does that leave you...food, gas, utilities, and spending money for movies from a cut point.
That is exactly what the military is dealing with their checkbooks.
Movies (TA). Hurts, but it has no impact on living right now overall (AF WORLD...no flaming from Army, I understand their pain). However, come Oct it may be back, smaller, but there.
Utilities, you lower the heat, and put on a sweater. AFROTC is cutting stipends, and it appears AROTC is giving out more 3 yr than 4 yr, along with more public than private.
Food, you buy store brands instead of Kelloggs, and Oreo's. You still get that item, but you saved some money. Right now they are cancelling some summer ROTC programs for some branches, but they still are getting the treat...an officer with training. It doesn't mean the quality is any less, it is just a different taste.
Silly way to explain it, but for me, in my Polish mind that is how I see it.
I am someone that saw the 92 RIF as an ADAF spouse. To be honest, that was scary. I believe in the military, and I believe they learned from that cut.
Yes, right now it is bad, but come Oct 1st, when FY14 starts, a lot of these fears will not be a factor. A lot will change, and some things may be back.
Come Oct 1st. they know their real budget, and won't be playing catch up. Come Oct 1st, if they decide Malt-O Meal Crunch Berry cereal is just as good as Capt Crunch, that is what they are going to buy.
They are going to spend wisely.
Betting my sweet little Myrtle that AFIT will be an expense on their list that they keep for FY13, might be smaller for 14, but I bet those with an AFIT slot now keep it.
FYI. I don't know if the posters wanting an ED/AFIT are also wanting rated, because that may be a player in the equation. I would suggest to them to reach out to posters like flieger, Christcorp, hornetguy, eagle16 and Bullet. In the rated world delaying UPT has a new set of what life will be like as an ADAF rated officer.
I would reach out to them also via pm regarding non-rated.
Just my guesses. I have no insight or connection. I am only relying on other forums and my personal experience. Throw it in the circular filing cabinet.
Talk to your cadre because they know better than me!
Best thoughts.
-Bull-
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Just out of curiosity, simply because I don't know, when they talk about making cuts to PME, are they talking about cutting number of slots offered to courses/programs, length of courses, number of instructors, or cutting entire courses/programs, more correspondence vs. in house? Simply wondering what cuts to PME means, if anyone with experience knows.
Pima
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Sorry it took so long to respond. I had to go back and find out where I saw it. On a whole from what I read, is they will change it to more distance learning than in-residence. It will impact more of the enlisted side of the house and company grade than field grade, seeing as field grade PME in residence are PCS tours for a yr, not a TDY.
Since they are cutting all non-essential TDY's that would include PME for lower ranks. That does beg the question what the instructors at Maxwell will be doing for the next 6 months. Maybe they will be teaching via Skype for distance learning.
If they do that, the next question is come Oct.1st, if it is successful, will they return to the old way of TDY, or will just move forward with using skype for these airmen. Back in the 90's most O2/O3s that went in residence did so as a TDY enroute when they were PCSing. Basically, killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
Since they are cutting all non-essential TDY's that would include PME for lower ranks. That does beg the question what the instructors at Maxwell will be doing for the next 6 months. Maybe they will be teaching via Skype for distance learning.
If they do that, the next question is come Oct.1st, if it is successful, will they return to the old way of TDY, or will just move forward with using skype for these airmen. Back in the 90's most O2/O3s that went in residence did so as a TDY enroute when they were PCSing. Basically, killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
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No official word yet on summer training cancellation
DS signed some papers to go into a pool for an Amphib Cruise for summer training this week (he is unable to attend Mt. Warfare which would be his normal Marine Option training cycle this summer). I mention it only because it seems that summer training is still on track for NROTC anyway. At least the word hasn't come down that it is definitely cancelled -- yet. I suppose the word can always come down at the last minute but I would hope folks are working towards the end of April (at least) for a final decision. I would hate to see these kids also lose a good opportunity at a summer job, especially if summer training is also going to be cancelled.
DS signed some papers to go into a pool for an Amphib Cruise for summer training this week (he is unable to attend Mt. Warfare which would be his normal Marine Option training cycle this summer). I mention it only because it seems that summer training is still on track for NROTC anyway. At least the word hasn't come down that it is definitely cancelled -- yet. I suppose the word can always come down at the last minute but I would hope folks are working towards the end of April (at least) for a final decision. I would hate to see these kids also lose a good opportunity at a summer job, especially if summer training is also going to be cancelled.
Pima
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I think the new wrinkle is going to be about TA if it passes next week. DoD made all of their plans with the fact that TA was going to be cancelled. If the Hill forces them to put it back in the budget something else has got to go to make up that amount of money.
You can hit the GS's more, but furloughs will start impacting the mission.
You can hit programs like the 35, but when you have 8 countries, and our 3 branches buying them, it starts to impact too.
So what is left that will have the least impact on the mission. JMPO, but if they went after TA, and don't want the Hill squawking again, ROTC is probably their easiest option.
AFROTC has this week delayed SFT/EA results saying it is do to career accession reasons. JMPO, but that begs the question, are they going to cut the size, or the number of Max's (there are 6 currently) to decide the impact if they have to make the change.
One thing I learned as an AF spouse, just because you have orders in hand, don't take anything for 100% granted until you in-process and say WELCOME, we've been expecting to you!
You can hit the GS's more, but furloughs will start impacting the mission.
You can hit programs like the 35, but when you have 8 countries, and our 3 branches buying them, it starts to impact too.
So what is left that will have the least impact on the mission. JMPO, but if they went after TA, and don't want the Hill squawking again, ROTC is probably their easiest option.
AFROTC has this week delayed SFT/EA results saying it is do to career accession reasons. JMPO, but that begs the question, are they going to cut the size, or the number of Max's (there are 6 currently) to decide the impact if they have to make the change.
One thing I learned as an AF spouse, just because you have orders in hand, don't take anything for 100% granted until you in-process and say WELCOME, we've been expecting to you!
Nateman15
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After having two nominations to USAFA C/O 2015 when the cuts hit there, and now waiting on an AFROTC EA in very uncertain times, the only advice I can give is:
"Work like there is someone working 24-hours a day to take it all away from you." Mark Cuban
"Work like there is someone working 24-hours a day to take it all away from you." Mark Cuban
Does anyone have any updates/confirmation about NROTC indoc being cancelled? DS visited his unit a few weeks ago, and they appear to be proceeding under the assumption that indoc will occur as usual.
jiller59
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DS said NSO is being held at his unit, but scheduled for on campus this year instead of nearby military installation. The powers that be are submitting a request/case to keep NSO off campus. MIDNs have NSO assignments and are moving ahead with plans. Of course, things can still change!
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My son said his unit was definitely aware of the possibility of Indoc being cancelled but planning for all options. He said it was likely they wouldn't know for sure until July, but it could go one of 3 ways (BU Consortium):
1. Same as normal - report a week early and go to Newport (RI) for training as usual. This is the most expensive since they have to provide housing, food, etc.
2. Same timeframe as normal but everything would just happen on campus instead. In this case, incoming freshmen would probably have to pay the per diem rate for rooms (at least at his school) and would probably be on their own for most meals but they'd do PT, training, etc. all at the unit a good number of hours each day (sounded unlikely they'd do it like a basic training though where they were all bunked in the same area - people would just go to their own rooms at night).
3. Instead of doing Indoc before reporting, uniform issue and critical things would be during orientation or shortly after and they'd incorporate much of the Indoc training (weapons, wearing the uniform properly, public speaking) into a couple weekend mornings throughout the year.
1. Same as normal - report a week early and go to Newport (RI) for training as usual. This is the most expensive since they have to provide housing, food, etc.
2. Same timeframe as normal but everything would just happen on campus instead. In this case, incoming freshmen would probably have to pay the per diem rate for rooms (at least at his school) and would probably be on their own for most meals but they'd do PT, training, etc. all at the unit a good number of hours each day (sounded unlikely they'd do it like a basic training though where they were all bunked in the same area - people would just go to their own rooms at night).
3. Instead of doing Indoc before reporting, uniform issue and critical things would be during orientation or shortly after and they'd incorporate much of the Indoc training (weapons, wearing the uniform properly, public speaking) into a couple weekend mornings throughout the year.
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My son's unit used to do #2 except all bunked in the same area. There was a pull back divider between the sexes. BTW they ate MREs all week and were allotted little time to do so, although on the last day they did have a cookout at a lake and got to play with the sailboats. It was also the first time they got to speak to one another and resulted in a real bonding session. They are now moving to #3. DS and his buddies who did #2 are very disappointed as they seem to feel (and are probably correct) that the weeding out, getting ship-shape, and bonding that used to happen with #2 will no longer happen. The result will be a larger number of new midshipmen that are a bit more of a "problem" for their squad leaders. Time will tell.
Wow, you Navy types are tough.
My younger son's orientation was a two hour presentation on all things ROTC, slide show, cake, cookies, and punch. APFT was the next morning and contracting ceremony that afternoon. The parents were asked to be at the orientation presentation as well. When it was over we were walking with a CPT back to the ROTC office, the NROTC and MO were out in front of the gym doing a lot of "Get Up! Get Down! Get UP! Get Down!" One of the new cadets asked the CPT "Do we do that too" The CPT just said...Nope and we walked on. I guess every Battalion could be different, They just seemed to do all their indoc during the first few weeks.
My older son's was harder....no cake, cookies, or punch
My younger son's orientation was a two hour presentation on all things ROTC, slide show, cake, cookies, and punch. APFT was the next morning and contracting ceremony that afternoon. The parents were asked to be at the orientation presentation as well. When it was over we were walking with a CPT back to the ROTC office, the NROTC and MO were out in front of the gym doing a lot of "Get Up! Get Down! Get UP! Get Down!" One of the new cadets asked the CPT "Do we do that too" The CPT just said...Nope and we walked on. I guess every Battalion could be different, They just seemed to do all their indoc during the first few weeks.
My older son's was harder....no cake, cookies, or punch
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Did I forget to mention the USMC Drill Instructors who were in charge of the whole thing?
Actually, according to DS, it wasn't possible to assure the quality of instruction during orientation on a national basis and there was too much opportunity for hazing at some schools. I can't speak to the accuracy of that, but apparently it's why he believes NROTC Orientation is supposed to be changing nationwide. But then the kid is at the bottom of the hill down which things roll; so I'm not sure I buy this, and think it might be a school by school change and probably for various reasons.