Hundreds of Air Force Academy cadets suspected of cheating during pandemic-induced online learning

The service academies are NOT the most elite universities. Many of their students wouldn't qualify for the ivy leagues.
You do know that this goes both ways, right? Most ivy league students wouldn't come close to qualifying for a service academy. It is just a different kind of person. How many Harvard or Yale students do you think could pass the CFA? How about DoDMERB? Of course they could handle the academics, but academics are only a portion of what is required of you at a SA. At the end of the day, I 110% agree with @VelveteenR. You are misunderstanding the goal of the Academies.
 
These are kids, many who will go on to do extraordinary things. Trust the process. As an Ivy leaguer with a USAFA grad (O-4) with more than 3,000 hours, including 600 to 700 combat/combat support, my lean is towards the SAs, hands down.
 
I've seen it in a cadet program on a local level that they are very into externals and not substance. It is weird and I've seen kids with bad character traits go on to SA and scholarships at military schools with a lot of praise and admiration.
 
No excuse - cheating is cheating and this is not academia everywhere.
Are you saying that only SA’s are dealing with trying to monitor students working remotely? I don’t buy that at all. Not one bit. I am not saying it’s ok. At all.

What I am saying, is that logging on to these tutoring sights from the comforts of your home, without supervision, happens. I know it does! Our high schools deal with it. Kids are always ahead of the curve technology wise, and we play catch up to those methods. Absolutely there are cheaters everywhere and schools are finding ways to catch them. No way it’s only at the SA’s. Again, my POINT is that primarily holding classes remotely, doesn’t work.

This is ‘cheat sheets’, notes written on your hands of the old days. But back then? The teacher could catch you. Now Johnny/julie are in their room alone. The answer only a Google away on their phone beside them. No way the students of the world only cheat at a SA. Yes, every school deals with this.

That’s exactly why professors feed incorrect answers to these sites. To catch them. It’s not only at SA’s.

Now, should SA’s be held to a higher standard? That’s a whole other point. And one I wasn’t making with my comment. But rather, in general, remote/virtual learning is not working. Cheating being only ONE of the reasons why.
 
justdoit19, we are on the same sheet of music.
We all know that it’s happening everywhere. I’m saying that the SA’s and the Cadets are not like other schools and students. They must be a step above. It’s about Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage.
 
justdoit19, we are on the same sheet of music.
We all know that it’s happening everywhere. I’m saying that the SA’s and the Cadets are not like other schools and students. They must be a step above. It’s about Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage.
I completely read your original post differently. And agree with you. Lots will be learned from this pandemic, that’s for sure!
 
I’m going to offer my perspective as someone currently in college working towards a commission. First off, this is a sad situation no matter how you slice and dice it. It’s sad that these young men and women went through months or years of an application just to throw it all away for a grade. At the end of the day I would rather receive a poor grade than possibly change my life by cheating. If they are cheating now and “getting away with it” then that action will continue until they are out in the military. No matter if learning is online or in-person cheating should never be tolerated. It undermines the hard work that people put in to receiving a good grade without having to resort to cheating. It undermines the institution you attend and the alumni you are following. Also, it’s not like they just googled answers (even though that is not any better), they uploaded final exams online to get answers and actively worked in groups to give each other answers. This is as bad as it gets and it shows that these cadets have zero integrity. You may disagree with me and that is all right.
 
The motto in all the service academies is cooperate and graduate. They have taken it to a. totally different level obviously.

The real question is do we need service academies in the 21st Century? It's great in being paid to attend a free school but is it a good investment for the taxpayers or the military?

Academy grads and full college ROTC scholarship grads tend to leave the service much SOONER than other commissioning sources for decades. Their mindset is if we are the best, let's take my skill set to the market place.

Their favorite saying is 5 and dive for many of them. Five year commitment and then leaving. Not a great return on the investment for the military or for the taxpayer. Military pilot training commitment is at least 10-11 years.

The service academies are NOT the most elite universities. Many of their students wouldn't qualify for the ivy leagues.

The recent Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, a 4 star, is a Princeton graduate. Now that is a great return on investment for the military and the taxpayer.

But we will continue to say they are American's best and even the cadets don't believe that after a year or so as a student.

The military has to find a better way in producing and retaining quality officers.

Really? Very, very few students attending Ivy league universities could not get into West Point based solely on the physical fitness requirements.

I guarantee more Cadets at our Academies could get into Ivy league schools than the other way around.

West Point and our other Academies are the gold standard for generating commissioned officers...the envy of nearly every other Nation.

These cheating incidents, while unfortunate, are not going to change the facts above.
 
While very few posts in this thread actually address the cheating scandal, I don't think anyone is condoning the behavior - correct?

No, and the chains of command at the Academies don't and have not condoned it either. Consequences are real. I choose to trust the judgment of the General Officers at the academies who will weigh all of the variables and execute the best course of action for the Academies, the Cadets, the services, and our Nation.
 
Do I feel as though I’m getting a world class education that kicks my *** and makes me work like a dog to keep up? Nope.

I came to USNA direct out of high school. I’ve never taken a course at another college. However, I have quite a few friends go to top tier private and public universities. I’d say they’re as smart if not smarter than I am. Their academic experience seems to be much more rigorous than mine.

Is there pressure from higher for overall grades to be better than they once were? Has the core curriculum been dumbed down? Am I just smarter than everyone else here? I can’t answer any of those questions besides the last one, which is a resounding NO!

For reference, I’m a STEM major who chose to add a critical language minor.
Looking from the outside in for the past 1.5 years, I sort of agree with this. My son went to an inner city public school but he has three close friends from his HS class that are in Ivies and they compare notes. The classes themselves at USNA appear to be as challenging as the Ivies. However the academic “competition” at the Ivies is quite a bit higher. Most of the classmates of these Ivy guys/gals were IB/AP scholars with ACTs in the 34-36 range. That is definitely not the case at USNA. There are some really, really smart mids. But they are fewer in number compared to Ivies. Absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is only one piece of the puzzle. None of my son’s friends could cut it at an SA - they aren’t physical fit enough, not physically competitive enough, not driven to serve, and not demonstrated leaders. But I think it needs to be admitted that from a scholastically competitive point of view, the Ivies are significantly more challenging. My son has not found the academics challenging and he knows several mids who were not academically prepared coming in. But they figure it out. It’s the combo platter of everything that are the SAs that makes them incredibly challenging and impossible to compare with Ivies. The education that SAs provide is top notch. Academics are really important but too much emphasis is placed on them in our society. There’s a whole lot more to being a great citizen, employee, leader, human than academic prowess.
 
Looking from the outside in for the past 1.5 years, I sort of agree with this. My son went to an inner city public school but he has three close friends from his HS class that are in Ivies and they compare notes. The classes themselves at USNA appear to be as challenging as the Ivies. However the academic “competition” at the Ivies is quite a bit higher. Most of the classmates of these Ivy guys/gals were IB/AP scholars with ACTs in the 34-36 range. That is definitely not the case at USNA. There are some really, really smart mids. But they are fewer in number compared to Ivies. Absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is only one piece of the puzzle. None of my son’s friends could cut it at an SA - they aren’t physical fit enough, not physically competitive enough, not driven to serve, and not demonstrated leaders. But I think it needs to be admitted that from a scholastically competitive point of view, the Ivies are significantly more challenging. My son has not found the academics challenging and he knows several mids who were not academically prepared coming in. But they figure it out. It’s the combo platter of everything that are the SAs that makes them incredibly challenging and impossible to compare with Ivies. The education that SAs provide is top notch. Academics are really important but too much emphasis is placed on them in our society. There’s a whole lot more to being a great citizen, employee, leader, human than academic prowess.
Exactly...very good and accurate summary based upon our multiple experiences at both USNA and USMA.
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with that because that is only one piece of the puzzle.

@ders_dad I agree with your post and wanted to highlight the "one piece of the puzzle" comment. I don't think that any of my comments are necessarily a bad thing. USNA doesn't exist to compete with Ivy's in academic rigor. USNA exists to build leaders, and history shows it does at least an OK job at that (and so does every ROTC unit). I am forced to work hard in areas that don't exist at my friend's schools. I take an active role in the life of my plebe and am responsible for his success or failure. I am graded twice a year on a PRT. I take Nav, leadership, ethics, law etc., etc. You get the point.

There's a sense of pride among the Brigade. We were selected after rounds of interviews, we wear fancy uniforms and represent the Navy around the world, and we work hard to earn the free tuition we're being given. For the most part, we're also pretty self aware and understand that we're not any better than our ROTC brethren. I'm sure MIDN parents are also proud of us, especially those on SAF.

The point I was trying to make with my last post is that it is just not accurate to claim that academics here are the same as at Ivy league schools or the equivalent. You can be proud of this place and what it stands for without falsely (and in some cases on SAF, blindly) claiming we are equivalent to Ivy league schools in academics.

Sorry for derailing the thread. To address the OP, cheating is wrong. Mids and Cadets live by an honor concept or code. Those who cheat will be dealt with by their peers and higher. Whether they are separated or face honor remediation is a complicated decision that involves everyone from their peers to the Supe. It is remiss to think that remediation and the repercussions of having an honor hit on your record aren't punishment enough.
 
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@Skipper07 - Wondering if you are my son. I’m sure you’re not but your comments and perspective are very similar.

FWIW, my cousin’s husband is 3rd generation West Point. His father was Class of 1915 and has a building named after him at an SA. My cousin’s husband “5-and-dived”. When you go to an SA, it’s understood that your not signing up for 25 years.
 
The recent Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, a 4 star, is a Princeton graduate. Now that is a great return on investment for the military and the taxpayer.
I don’t know about recent Chairmen, but the current CJCS, Gen. Miley, commissioned through Princeton’s AROTC. I doubt he was a programmer.

A better example might be Gen. John Shalikashvili, a stateless refugee who graduated from Bradley University and didn’t even become a US citizen until he enlisted in the Army as a private.

My radical take is that Cheating and Retention (or lack thereof) are related. The common thread IMHO, is the sense of entitlement born of accomplishment and the never ending praise the high achievers receive along the path they follow. In this regard there isn’t ”dime’s worth of difference” (George Wallace’s metaphor) between the SA’s and the elite schools.

I would be particularly interested to know the demographics of the cheaters and five and divers compared to all SA grads.
 
You can learn calculus at a community college just as well as you can learn it at a SA or Ivy. Maybe even better.

My son has friends at Ivys, SA, MIT, etc. We don’t know if they learn the subjects better. We know that the grades tend to be lower. According to my son, when comparing his education so far with a friend from a great school, they find that the coursework and knowledge is similar.

The student’s effort matters. If someone graduates at top of class at a SA, I would suspect they could handle an Ivy. And vice versa (for academics).
 
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