Hurt during Beast

[TerryS]

This is my first post, my son will be NC in 2015.

A friend of ours was a NC 2014 and broke his ankle during beast. He was discharged and told he would have to reapply for admission in 2015. Is this the sop for being injuried and unable to complete beast? Obviously, the injuried NC had already declined any other scholarship offers etc. from civilian schools. I would have thought he would have been able to be included in the 2015 class without having to re-apply.

 

[tallbutshort]

I'm only a candidate myself, so I'd advise taking my words with a grain of salt. But I've always heard they have to reapply if they get hurt before they get there, and they are automatically in the next class if they get hurt after they've taken the oath the first day.

 

[militaryfamily]

Just curious how far into Beast did your friend get when he broke the ankle?

 

[TerryS]

He was only there two weeks.

 

[militaryfamily]

Personally I don't understand why they aren't allowed to finish if the injury will heal but this question came up once previously and I believe they said if one cannot perform after eight consecutive days of being injured at Beast they go home; very sad and such a heart break.

 

[TerryS]

I understand why he was sent home, ankle was broken and there was no way for him to complete Beast. It just seems odd he would have to reapply. As hard as it is to get accepted it can be very discouraging.

 

[militaryfamily]

Yes I sure agree.

 

[lotrjedi13]

I just finished up Beast, and the people I knew who got hurt all got medical turnbacks to join next year's class...no reapplying necessary. A kid who was found to have mono on R-Day gets to come back because he took the oath. The rumor was he gets to draw pay too, but take that with a grain of salt

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Personally I don't understand why they aren't allowed to finish if the injury will heal but this question came up once previously and I believe they said if one cannot perform after eight consecutive days of being injured at Beast they go home; very sad and such a heart break.

Not true at West Point. I think this is AFA policy.
Lots of injured New Cadets stay at Beast and complete it. Some, however, just can't because they need surgery or have a serious illness (like mono). But NC's on crutches are common. Some even stay after being hospitalized. It's a case by case basis.

Just to speculate here - perhaps he took a Medical Discharge as opposed to Medical leave. If he wanted to quit anyway, he may have done this.
It's hard to know what exactly transpired with third hand information.

 

[TerryS]

I was told it was a medical discharge

 

[Just_A_Mom]

^
That is the reason and it was his choice. He could have taken a Medical Leave.

 

[America's Finest]

Personally I don't understand why they aren't allowed to finish if the injury will heal but this question came up once previously and I believe they said if one cannot perform after eight consecutive days of being injured at Beast they go home; very sad and such a heart break.

I understand why he was sent home, ankle was broken and there was no way for him to complete Beast. It just seems odd he would have to reapply. As hard as it is to get accepted it can be very discouraging.

Keep in mind this year was different than the others. The class of 2014 was overbooked so they started slimming it down by taking back appointments for infractions that would normally not have warranted it. Beast was also affected by the large size. In my Beast, many injured new cadets remained and were told they must complete the Beast requirements they were unable to do as Beast cadre.

 

[Dixieland]

So if you take a medical discharge you're back at square one?.....reapplying, nomination, etc., etc.???

 

[Just_A_Mom]

If you are medically discharged then you are separated from the Army.
There is a clear distinction between a medical leave and a discharge. On medical leave, you remain in the Army. You can go home to recuperate and are covered by Tricare.
A while back a NC posted where she went home during Beast, came back to Keller for surgery, they put her up in transistion barracks for recuperation and then she went home for physical therapy. She was scheduled to return the following summer.

IMO - taking a medical leave is preferable to a discharge since you remain on Tricare. In any case, the Army will fix you since the injury occurred LOD.

 

[scoutpilot]

Ugh...again with the "overbooked" notion. Will this misguided belief not die? It's like the damn Pop Rocks and soda myth.

As others have stated, there is a difference between leave and a discharge. Without knowing what transpired in great detail, not much can be said with certainty.

To get back to the idea that somehow New Cadets are being sent home for things that would not have sent them home in the past--that notion is nuts. Let's please get over the idea that this class is "too big." The class is NOT "too big." This year, we experienced an unusually low number of declined offers. That means that candidates who finished their files late and in past years would have received offers under the rolling admissions process did not receive them this year because so few of the earlier offers were turned down. It does NOT mean that the class is accidentally too big.

The admissions department doesn't send out offers willy-nilly with no accountability. They keep careful track of the offers and make more offers or decline to make more offers as the number of acceptances dictate. No one at Bldg 606 woke up one morning and said "Holy crap, there are way too many in this class!" This isn't Cap'n Crunch cereal, people. We didn't have an "Oops, all Crunchberries!" moment, so to speak.

This class is larger than previous classes because the somewhat recent increase in the authorized end strength of the Corps (from 4000 to 4400) has yet to be achieved due to natural attrition and smaller class sizes in previous years. As a result, the decision was made to increase the number of admissions to reach that end strength. Believe it or not, there is a method to the madness.

 

[Dixieland]

I wonder what the percentage of medical discharges who reapply is? As a parent, I don't think I could suffer through the whole application / waiting process again! Those were some stressful times!

All of the colleges my new cadet applied to as backups begin classes the same week as West Point. In my region, it would be difficult to scramble and find a school this late.

 

[TerryS]

Thanks Just A Mom that makes this clear, he decided to take a medical discharge which was his choice, if he had taken a medical leave he would have been allowed to return next summer

 

[lovethenavy]

Our USNA son broke his ankle 17 days into Plebe summer this year. The USNA took great care of him, he had surgery in Annapolis and is currently finishing up Plebe summer doing what he can. He injured his ankle on the Endurance Course. They told us that he could continue and he is doing fine. He spent a few days Sick in Quarters and a Detailer was with him during the whole surgery as we were too far away to come out. I have been extremely impressed by the medical care he received.

 

[marciemi]

To get back to the idea that somehow New Cadets are being sent home for things that would not have sent them home in the past--that notion is nuts. Let's please get over the idea that this class is "too big." The class is NOT "too big." This year, we experienced an unusually low number of declined offers. That means that candidates who finished their files late and in past years would have received offers under the rolling admissions process did not receive them this year because so few of the earlier offers were turned down. It does NOT mean that the class is accidentally too big.

Scout, I hate to disagree with you, but that is very strongly what was put out at MALO/Field Force training in April at WP. Maybe it was just our RC really stating it, but they said many times that they overextended offers. They had offered an unprecedented 500 LOA's this year and when it came down to offers they had to make (you know, that whole congressional thing! ), the class size WAS larger than admissions had hoped for (due in a large part to few offers being turned down as you said). But our RC told the group that D&F meant "Done and Finished" - that a bad grade, a speeding ticket, or even not turning in one piece of paperwork on time would result in the appointment being revoked, unlike in previous years.

Never once during the week did we hear said that it was an intentional buildup. Yes, the admissions office has a plan, but the plan was based on historical data of what percentage of candidates they expected to accept their appointments. And this year had a higher percentage than ever before. I don't believe this is a wild rumor. However, neither do I believe that they're randomly looking to get cadets out - especially at this point.

So I don't think it's just a rumor or a myth, but what was put out to a group of FF Reps in person and via email. I'm sure they've accepted the class size at this point, but I would be very surprised if this year there were not fewer LOA's and a smaller class size (than in previous years, not just smaller than 2014) overall.

 

[scoutpilot]

Scout, I hate to disagree with you, but that is very strongly what was put out at MALO/Field Force training in April at WP. Maybe it was just our RC really stating it, but they said many times that they overextended offers. They had offered an unprecedented 500 LOA's this year and when it came down to offers they had to make (you know, that whole congressional thing! ), the class size WAS larger than admissions had hoped for (due in a large part to few offers being turned down as you said). But our RC told the group that D&F meant "Done and Finished" - that a bad grade, a speeding ticket, or even not turning in one piece of paperwork on time would result in the appointment being revoked, unlike in previous years.

Never once during the week did we hear said that it was an intentional buildup. Yes, the admissions office has a plan, but the plan was based on historical data of what percentage of candidates they expected to accept their appointments. And this year had a higher percentage than ever before. I don't believe this is a wild rumor. However, neither do I believe that they're randomly looking to get cadets out - especially at this point.

So I don't think it's just a rumor or a myth, but what was put out to a group of FF Reps in person and via email. I'm sure they've accepted the class size at this point, but I would be very surprised if this year there were not fewer LOA's and a smaller class size (than in previous years, not just smaller than 2014) overall.

That is very interesting indeed. We were told the exact opposite at our regional meeting, especially as far as retribution not being meted out against 2015 since the Corps is still below its authorized end strength. So I suppose the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There was much discussion about increased class sizes and the difficulty they've had meeting the 4400 number. I remember as a cadet on CGR our taps rollup for the brigade was a few dozen above 4000, and that was with classes that averaged around 1175 on R-day. I know that admissions has recognized that without significantly increased initial intake, 4400 will not be attainable.

Nevertheless, I still refuse to be party to the notion that is propagated by many that they're out to "shrink the class" and that infractions that would have been let go in the past are now grounds for separation. You and I both know that that's not how the Academy works.

Regardless, the truth is somewhere in between and the point of this thread seems to have been resolved. Thanks for bringing that up though, it's interesting to hear! I'll be that guy at the next meeting, challenging the party line.