I’m worried - Cyber Warfare

[JaredW2022]

Hi everyone, I’m currently a sophomore pursuing my BS in cyber security and I’m currently enrolled in ROTC but do not have a commission yet. I have been second guessing myself for the past year whether I should stick in Army ROTC or not as it’s just has been really taking a toll on me. I’m about to get a job to start paying for a car payment, an internship and have to a lot of volunteering for one of my scholarships I have at my college, and school on top of all of that. I am on the verge of quitting and just have been getting really burnt out. My whole family want to see me stick through with it but it just has been hard. I’m currently typing this out at 12 AM because I’ve been up all night just thinking about this, when I have to get up in 5 hours for PT. The military was always a big thing for me and I was planning on joining the naval academy for football, and was talking with the coaches but was injured before my senior year in high school. So with that I ended up going to my back up school and joined Army ROTC program they have here, and that’s where it got me to where I’m at today. I’m also worried that there is a chance I won’t be able to get my job in cyber warfare and be thrown into infantry. I would love any insight on any possible options where I could get more time to figure my life out with college, and actually get into the branch I actually want to be in, with the job I want. I would really appreciate any advice that can be given. Thanks everyone.

 

[JaredW2022]

Hi everyone, lately been second guessing Army ROTC. I’m currently a sophomore in college pursuing a BS in cyber security and have been in the ROTC program for over a year and a half now. I have been under a lot of stress lately with work, college and ROTC (I am not under any scholarship with ROTC, I would need to commission my junior year). Im trying to figure out if there is any other way to pursue a career in the military with Cyber. My parents want me to stay in it but I’ve been trying to balance everything. I heard college was supposed to be the time where you had the most fun, but I’m currently disliking it because of ROTC. I constantly miss things that my friends are out doing and I’m getting major FOMO. I know it sounds very childish, but I know I only get to have one college experience and I really don’t want to waste it. If there is any better route than ROTC, where I can get a guaranteed spot in the cyber field in whatever branch it may be. I just really need some advice on this one.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

The opportunity to commission and serve as an officer comes via a few main paths - a service academy, through ROTC, or officer candidate training. It sounds like the rigor of ROTC is not aligned with how you want to spend your time, and yet, what you'd like to do is find a path to then serve as an officer in the US Army - specifically the Cyber Security. Are you under the impression that serving as an officer in the Army is less intense than training in Army ROTC? As the son of a former Army officer, that is not what I observed.

When you say commission as a junior, I'm not sure what you mean - do you mean be designated as advanced standing and on a track to graduate and commission as long as you fulfill all remaining requirements? A college degree is a requirement to commission so I don't think you mean you'll commission and start serving while a junior in college. Please clarify only as needed.

If you leave AROTC, you 'll receive a record of disenrollment which to my understanding is critical to your future chances of serving as an officer - rehash another post - The most important thing you’ll receive when you leave [AROTC]is a DD 785 (Recommendation For Future Officer Training). This document is a must have if you are planning on trying commission via another route. Most detachments or programs are hesitant to allow anyone entry into the program with less than a “1” (Highly Recommended) ranking.”

You should also discuss options to keep the door open with your cadre and discuss your doubts. How has your performance been in AROTC? I'll be honest - if training has you feeling the blues, then maybe this isn't the path for you - What I see in those who are a right fit for a military officer - they would walk through fire if it meant getting the opportunity to serve as an officer in their dream role(s) - it doesn't present like the end goal reward of that dream career and experience in Army-Cyber is enough for you to get you out of bed with a pep in your step - So, I and others can provide data points but it sounds like you need to do some serious soul searching and talk to the man in the mirror. Either connect that training and getting used to rigor is what's needed so you can get through it, or move on. Perhaps others can talk about how army might rate you if you are leaving ROTC but wish to keep your options open. I can see a case where your PAS et al. would not be interested to recommend you moving forward to OCS or a return to ROTC after their time invested your FOMO is driving your decisions and you have a motivation issue. But I'm just an anonymous internet poster - due your own due diligence and good luck.

 

[Ihavenoidea]

If you are not under contract, then leaving the ROTC unit would likely not have as many consequences then if you were under contract. This means you would have a better chance of having OCS as a option after college. Best advice I can give is make sure you are running towards something and not just away from something. I understand the pressure of work, school, and ROTC can be alot and feels like something needs to give. I am guessing you feel that since you are not getting any monetary benefits from ROTC, you wonder why you need it. I would urge you to consider if you have any other options that would be able to give you that monetary benefit that might make college less stressful. When you say commission Junior year, do you mean you will get a scholarship? If so, then wouldn't that help you with stress your last two years? Would that lessen your work schedule so you can have alittle more free time? I don't know, but I would recommend you really consider all your current and future options before quiting just yet.

The grass is always greener on the other side, but that doesn't mean its any easier.

 

[MidCakePa]

Let’s start here: Is your primary goal to become a commissioned officer? An affirmative answer is vital, because that’s what drives people to push through the challenges of ROTC (and SAs and OCS).

I know I only get to have one college experience and I really don’t want to waste it.

You mentioned FOMO? What exactly do you fear missing out on? The parties and after-hours carousing? The extracurriculars, clubs, events? The opportunity to set yourself up for a great career? You can’t do everything and college is a vital training ground for setting priorities. What’s most important to you and what are you willing to give up to get it?

If there is any better route than ROTC, where I can get a guaranteed spot in the cyber field in whatever branch it may be.

You’re looking for a guaranteed spot in cyber, in any branch. There’s no such thing. Cyber is one of the — if not the — most competitive MOSs to get, in all branches. That’s because the numbers are still relatively small while cadet/mid demand is high. So you can bet the ones getting that MOS are true standouts. What happens if you commission as an officer but don’t get cyber? Will you still be fully committed to serving your country in a different MOS?

Fear not. You can get a very good job in cyber that pays well, is highly stimulating and highly challenging. But for you, the best fit might be in the civilian sector. If ROTC is beating you down, you can pursue other paths to cyber. But again, you must start by revisiting your goals and priorities.

 

[GoCubbies]

Hi everyone, lately been second guessing Army ROTC. I’m currently a sophomore in college pursuing a BS in cyber security and have been in the ROTC program for over a year and a half now. I have been under a lot of stress lately with work, college and ROTC (I am not under any scholarship with ROTC, I would need to commission my junior year). Im trying to figure out if there is any other way to pursue a career in the military with Cyber. My parents want me to stay in it but I’ve been trying to balance everything. I heard college was supposed to be the time where you had the most fun, but I’m currently disliking it because of ROTC. I constantly miss things that my friends are out doing and I’m getting major FOMO. I know it sounds very childish, but I know I only get to have one college experience and I really don’t want to waste it. If there is any better route than ROTC, where I can get a guaranteed spot in the cyber field in whatever branch it may be. I just really need some advice on this one.

You can go OCS after college, but there is no guarantee you will get Cyber. There's no guarantee you'll get Cyber out of ROTC either.

I went to a SMC, so I did miss out. At the time, I didn't know what I was missing out. I thought I was in the best place in the world, and wouldn't trade it (except my first year) for anything.

I recall taking my oldest to college and thinking about all the things I missed. I sometimes wonder how ROTC kids do the things they do going to a regular school. I'm speaking mainly Army now. While the ROTC kids are out in the woods at a FTX each fall and spring getting sweaty, dirty, and smelly, their peers are out enjoying Sixth Street, Franklin Street, etc... relaxing and enjoying the atmosphere.

So, while I have no practical advice other than to tell you there is no guarantee to get Cyber via either ROTC or OCS, I can completely understand your dilemma.

My philosophy is don't do something if you hate it. Even in medicine in which things get really tough early on where medical students have the characteristic of willingness to put off "the prize" well into the future, those undergoing the hardship still find some joy in the long, arduous training. If you're not happy with this, then don't do it. You've got your junior and senior years to still put up with this, not to mention Advanced Camp (35 days of sweating, being hot, and embracing the suck) at Fort Knox. And what do you get at the end? A chance, not a guarantee, to branch Cyber.

 

[StPaulDad]

I'm with those above: you need some mirror time to sort priorities and goals. Cyber is hard to get into at a high level and will take some sacrifice to secure a position, so one of the things you need to work on is this notion of certainty. When you're shooting for the very top you have to be prepared for not reaching that, and you don't sound ready for a non-cyber career yet.

Also: there are lots of military-adjacent jobs in the three letter agencies that might meet your career goals and still let you go play on Friday nights. You'll still need to put in a lot of work to get top grades, you need to stay out of trouble, and there's still no guarantee at the end, but you can get past the FOMO and maybe then get a better grasp on your longer-term plans.

 

[GWU PNS (emeritus)]

My only thought when comparing ROTC students with their traditional college counterparts is this. They can spend their days partying amd hanging out and those may be the best days they ever have. That's because they'll be spending the next 10 to 20 years paying down their student loan debt unless they were on academic or athletic scholarships.

If you are singularly focused on doing something cyber related and also want a military experience, then it "might" be worth looking at an enlisted career path. I know that is heresy on a forum such as this, but enlisting lets you get a guaranteed career field if your test scores are good enough, and the GI Bill means you can bank tuition money for later down the road.

But I know this....pouring your heart out here at 4AM when you have to do PT in 2 hours is a recipe to fail. So go find some ROTC mentors you trust, or college counselors, or have a heart to heart with mom and dad. But get your brain housing group oriented properly so you don't spiral into a self-pity experience that doesn't help you or your family.

 

[BJD16]

Working during college impacts social life more than ROTC. Get the scholarship and tuition and spending money are no longer a problem, then you can quit working.

Agree with previous posts, you have to be committed to spending 4 years on active duty in any Army branch you are assigned. Cyber is a shot in the dark. Most cadets in my unit wanted Light Infantry or Aviation, and only a few guys ever got their Ranger tabs, and I don't think any branched Aviation. Cyber is a shot in the dark and probably only going to top cadets on OML.

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

Burnout is a real thing: I was in NROTC, with two part-time jobs for my first couple of years, 17-19 credits/quarter, etc. I feel you.

To smartly address the risk of burnout, I would recommend prioritizing. For example, if you're going to be in the Army, do you need an internship? Internships of course offer great experience but they're also pathways to civilian employment, which presumably isn't an immediate need of yours. Additionally, I understand the appeal of a car (I was a huge car guy in my 20s and wasted more money than I care to admit) but do you need one?

A different way to look at this is what do you want most? If you want to be in the Army, then quitting ROTC is a terrible idea. If you're considering changing services, dropping ROTC, and applying for Navy via OCS later you need to ensure your specific education meets the requirements of the program(s) you're interested in. Cyber Warfare Engineers have very specific educational requirements in the program authorization, where MCWO is a newer program with more open requirements it would seem.

In short, get organized, aggressively trim activities that aren't required, and stay steadfast in pursuit of the goals you do want.

 

[MidCakePa]

MODERATORS: Does it make sense to merge this with the identical thread where there are already several responses?

 

[justdoit19]

As always, GREAT insight from @USNA_STEM_Prof. I would make a physical list. Pros and cons. Wants and needs. Often, putting an old fashioned pen to paper take it out of your mind. Provides visual clarity that you can revisit and tweak.

Additionally, I would highly recommend speaking with a school counselor, or priest, advisor, professor, or other trusted advisor that can help you talk through things. We have good insight/advice here (there are great posters, who have been through “life” and can offer their perspective), but don’t know you personally. Or your whole story.

What you are feeling is overwhelmed, it sounds to me. And managing that, in general, will most likely provide more clarity about what path to take.

 

[TBVADAD]

(Comments from the peanut gallery)

I never did ROTC and wasn't an officer, but can tell you life leads you down a path you don't see at 12am.

I was 19 and wanted to be a firefighter/EMT more than anything. I mean anything. I was volunteering 40-60 hours a week when I should have been working.

I visited the Navy recruiter several times and they promised me Hospital Corpmen (Medic) but at the time I had to wait like 6 months to go to boot camp.

"Teenage Sigh". Whatever I need to be on the next bus. The Chief upfront told me you will be undesignated. For the Army it would be like being a private with no MOS.

I decided I would make rank as a E4 and probably get out after 3 years. Then I could go to Nursing school or hope to.

I was standing watch one night and a Warrant officer asked me if I had ever considered being a Crypto tech. At this point in my life I had only been on a once computer about 10 years before and that was to play games. This guy is joking right?

I apply and tested great. I get orders for Advance school in Pensacola. Served one tour in Norfolk and gain abunch of skills.

Because of that path my family and I live really comfortable today.

My 2 cents is don't think you have to force the rest of your life into a make or break decision today or tomorrow.

 

[kinnem]

I've merged somewhat duplicate threads.

For the OP. As far as feeling overwhelmed, why are you adding a job to pay for a car? Why do you need a car. Most (at least many) college kids make it without a car until they graduate? So why do you have to have a car now?

 

[dddad]

Lots of good advice so far. My two cents from the peanut gallery: You won't get any certainty when it comes to branching cyber until you actually open the envelope telling you what branch you are assigned, but there is nothing stopping you from reaching out to the branch sooner rather than later so that the leadership involved in choosing who branches cyber gets to know you long before you do the formal interview. The new talent based branching system encourages you to show them what a good choice you will be down the road - nothing to say you can't get a jump on that process.

 

[BJD16]

If a cadet is not willing to serve four years active duty in any role assigned by the Army, then it is probably a good idea to drop. Since this cadet is not on scholarship, there are no repayment penalties.

 

[glen]

I’m also worried that there is a chance I won’t be able to get my job in cyber warfare and be thrown into infantry.

So, if you are in a cyber security major, doing well and are focused on this career path vs becoming a commissioned military officer, why not consider applying for a DOD cyber scholarship - which guarantee internships and provide government jobs in this field at graduation? If the military ROTC stuff is too much now, believe me it does not get easier. If it’s not something your heart is set on, you won’t do well. On the other hand, if cyber security is what excites you - go there. These scholarships are very generous.

DoD Cyber Scholarship Program (DoD CySP) – DoD Cyber Exchange

public.cyber.mil

 

[jbm2m]

I will also say that, if you get a degree in cybersecurity and then serve four years and get out, you will have all the major companies (at least in the DC metro area, and I assume most places) falling over each other trying to get you hired.

 

[MidCakePa]

I will also say that, if you get a degree in cybersecurity and then serve four years and get out, you will have all the major companies (at least in the DC metro area, and I assume most places) falling over each other trying to get you hired.

This is correct that cyber warfare officers with top-secret clearance are in very high demand in the private sector. Which is partly the reason why at least one military branch — and maybe all of them — has extended the service obligation for this MOS beyond the standard requirements. (This is not unlike going aviation.) So if you go this path, be ready to serve longer than your peers in other MOSs.

 

[Capt MJ]

To add to the non-military options noted above, and if guaranteed cyber warfare is the long pole in your tent (to drive home the point you won’t necessarily get that career field in the military), tied to some type of service (at least at the start of your working life, here are more federal civil service options:


Cyber Corps

SFS

Start your cybersecurity career with the U.S. government

sfs.opm.gov

Cybersecurity Scholarships

Scholarship recipients receive funding for cybersecurity-related degree programs, then serve in a cybersecurity role at a US government entity upon graduation.

niccs.cisa.gov

CyberCorps Scholarship for Service (SFS)

new.nsf.gov

State by State Guide to CyberCorps Scholarship Participating Schools

Everything You Need to Know About Getting a CyberCorps SFS Scholarship It may sound like the secret agency at the center of the plot of next summer’s big sci-fi blockbuster, but CyberCorps is as real as it gets. It’s no secret, either: Uncle Sam wants you to study information assurance for your...

www.cybersecurityeducationguides.org

Now this one is for HS students, but supplied for general readership and awareness, the Stokes scholarship:

The Stokes Educational Scholarship Program | NSA Employment | Federal Jobs Blog

High school seniors studying computer science or electrical engineering can apply. The NSA pays tuition for & hires accepted students after graduation!

federaljobs.net