I can't see myself in a sub.

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degiedgdeg

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Dec 4, 2019
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Hey everyone I've been looking into the process for service selection for NROTC and USNA... and the idea of submarine doesn't seem appealing to me. I understand the "needs of the navy" ALWAYS come first, so do the "needs of the navy" ever force mids to go subs? My first priority is to serve, but preferably I wouldn't want subs unless I had some change of heart
 
I can't remember the last time I heard of a "sub draft". Bubbleheads usually know that they want to be in subs long before selection and if your first and second choices aren't submarines, odds are that you will not be forced into the submarine service.
 
I put in a sub package in 1984 while doing 110 days at sea in the Indian Ocean/Persian Gulf AO. In those days it was a literal package which took a while to get to BUPERS in Arlington via snail mail. Subs seemed appealing to me as a corpsman for lots of reasons, one of which was advancement to HM1 upon graduation. Surface IDCs now also get advanced to HM1 at graduation but did not at that time. BUPERS sent a message one day saying my sub package wasn't complete and to send whatever it was that was missing. Meanwhile, I had received orders to teach HM A school, Corps School we call it. We had been at sea many more days at that point and I as well couldn't "see myself in a sub" so I kept the orders to Great Lakes. Good thing I did as I met my wife there and our two kids were born there. All nice and tidy before heading off to Surface Independent Duty Corpsman school in beautiful Portsmouth by the Sea.
 
There have been nuclear drafts in the past, but it has been extremely rare. The Submarine force considers themselves somewhat "elite", and a draft makes them look bad. That said, they need to fill the force, and if not enough Midshipman volunteer, there are ways to apply pressure to get "volunteers."

One way to avoid any draft or pressure to go subs is to be a Bull major, and struggle in the core STEM course, and Subs won't want you ! (A lot of Midshipmen do that without even trying !)

Seriously, don't let the fear of a Submarine draft affect your desire to attend USNA. Nobody wants a Submarine draft, and USNA does a pretty good job filling the ranks with true volunteers.
 
People do get sub drafted here from time to time. Doesn’t happen a lot but I’ve seen it twice since my Plebe year. You are only at risk if you are a STEM major and have decent grades. Even mids who want to go subs have a steeper hill to climb if they’re an English major for example. (Not to say humanities majors can’t get subs, they most definitely can and do, but they need to have a high GPA with good performance in chem, calc, physics, EE, and steam.)
 
Old Navy BGO said:
There have been nuclear drafts in the past, but it has been extremely rare. The Submarine force considers themselves somewhat "elite", and a draft makes them look bad. That said, they need to fill the force, and if not enough Midshipman volunteer, there are ways to apply pressure to get "volunteers."

One way to avoid any draft or pressure to go subs is to be a Bull major, and struggle in the core STEM course, and Subs won't want you ! (A lot of Midshipmen do that without even trying !)

Seriously, don't let the fear of a Submarine draft affect your desire to attend USNA. Nobody wants a Submarine draft, and USNA does a pretty good job filling the ranks with true volunteers.
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My brother was a '78 grad and I remember him talking about walking a fine line- do well enough to get flight school, but not well enough to get noticed by Rickover. Of course, in his case, that was not a difficult task.
 
Ahh...but the chance of a one-on-one with Rickover...the man, the myth, the legend...

Oh wait, I watched him eviscerate a classmate of mine when he was the guest speaker at USAFA my senior year...

"Are you really a senior cadet here mister? REALLY? Wow...why, I didn't realize our JUNIOR service brought them in so stupid...or did that happen while you've been here?" (***or words very close to that...)
(it was entertaining to watch my classmate squirm as he did, he's a great guy, but back then...and a bit of a prima donna)

Uh, on second thought...

Steve
 
My NROTC unit just had a big sub draft this year. Only 2 people wanted it and I think 7 total 1/C were told that the needs of the Navy overruled their preference... So to answer your question, the sub draft does still exist today!
 
Mmmidshipman said:
My NROTC unit just had a big sub draft this year. Only 2 people wanted it and I think 7 total 1/C were told that the needs of the Navy overruled their preference... So to answer your question, the sub draft does still exist today!
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Did those mids list subs somewhere on their preference sheet, even if it was listed as a low choice? Previous threads on this topic seem to hold that if subs is not listed on your sheet, you won't be assigned subs, but that listing it in your preferences anywhere can be seen as "volunteering" for sub duty.
 
UHBlackhawk said:
My brother was a '78 grad and I remember him talking about walking a fine line- do well enough to get flight school, but not well enough to get noticed by Rickover. Of course, in his case, that was not a difficult task.
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"Ricky" rode my ship for Acceptance Trials and his time on the ship was quite an experience for all of us. As I was
not in Engineering, I was mostly out of the line of fire but he did manage to fixate on one of my major pieces of equipment
so I too got to "enjoy" some of the fun.
 
By the way, regarding selecting subs at USNA. My son changed direction from Aviation to Subs during 2nd Class summer and
was allowed to apply for Nuc Power in the fall of his 2/C year. He was accepted and received a substantial bonus payment in
Nov of his 2/C year.

So there is $$$ in play here. Its the only service selection that I know of that gives bonuses to Mids.
 
ProudDad17 said:
Did those mids list subs somewhere on their preference sheet, even if it was listed as a low choice? Previous threads on this topic seem to hold that if subs is not listed on your sheet, you won't be assigned subs, but that listing it in your preferences anywhere can be seen as "volunteering" for sub duty.
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I believe that's exactly what happened. The kids who put subs as their #5 choice still "chose" to be considered for subs even if they really did not want to. The 1/C who didn't put subs or nuc SWO anywhere on their sheet remained safe from the sub draft
 
OldRetSWO said:
By the way, regarding selecting subs at USNA. My son changed direction from Aviation to Subs during 2nd Class summer and
was allowed to apply for Nuc Power in the fall of his 2/C year. He was accepted and received a substantial bonus payment in
Nov of his 2/C year.

So there is $$$ in play here. Its the only service selection that I know of that gives bonuses to Mids.
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SWO(N) does as well.
 
ProudDad17 said:
Did those mids list subs somewhere on their preference sheet, even if it was listed as a low choice? Previous threads on this topic seem to hold that if subs is not listed on your sheet, you won't be assigned subs, but that listing it in your preferences anywhere can be seen as "volunteering" for sub duty.
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You're essentially correct. However, it is nearly impossible to NOT have Subs in your top 5 if you don't qualify for some screener-required service.
 
From what I've heard, if they are short on the sub quota, they first try to "encourage" people to consider / select subs. They go to folks who maybe put subs second or third, who have good STEM grades, etc., and point out the benefits of submarine service. Usually, that gets them the numbers they need. It's obviously not great to "force" people into any service, if there isn't any interest.
 
usna1985 said:
From what I've heard, if they are short on the sub quota, they first try to "encourage" people to consider / select subs. They go to folks who maybe put subs second or third, who have good STEM grades, etc., and point out the benefits of submarine service. Usually, that gets them the numbers they need. It's obviously not great to "force" people into any service, if there isn't any interest.
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They aren’t “quotas”’, they’re “goals” ;). Personally, I like it when the Navy pursues intelligent and technically sound young officers to run their nuclear power plants - sub or surface. I also quite admire the nuclear and submarine professional standards. It gives me a certain peace of mind knowing that their standards are very high. In a way, maybe one should be flattered to be sought and selected for such an elite program. The demand for nuclear trained submarine officers is only going to increase given the Navy has place a nearly ten-billion-dollar order for the new Columbia Class submarine. I do agree with not having force a person into a given community.
 
A good friend of our son, who is in the same major (NOT in NROTC) and is now a senior Honors Student, was offered NUC School entering Junior Year upon Graduation and she was offered $100K to sign the agreement. If you are a STEM (engineering type) major, with Dean's List type grades it is likely you will be offered NUC school either SWO(N) or Sub. Our son is a sophomore and was already approached about nuclear options by one of his NROTC instructors (a Sub guy). The money may sway their decisions, 100K is a lot of money for a new graduate.
 
Mmmidshipman said:
My NROTC unit just had a big sub draft this year. Only 2 people wanted it and I think 7 total 1/C were told that the needs of the Navy overruled their preference... So to answer your question, the sub draft does still exist today!
Click to expand...

I would challenge.... how many of them put subs somewhere on their service selection sheet?
 
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