I successfully sent nearly 100 individuals to Navy OCS/ODS -- AMA

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

I was an officer recruiter that found tremendous success through hard work, candid conversations, and genuine investment in the young men and women that came to me. Between those I sent to OCS and the hundreds more that weren't eligible, I have a lot of experience and want to assist. Granted, the recruiting environment / market now is much different than in 2013-2015 but many of my observations apply.

I got nukes, SWOs, pilots, intel, and even a SEAL into OCS. Ask me anything!

 

[Capt MJ]

I was an officer recruiter that found tremendous success through hard work, candid conversations, and genuine investment in the young men and women that came to me. Between those I sent to OCS and the hundreds more that weren't eligible, I have a lot of experience and want to assist. Granted, the recruiting environment / market now is much different than in 2013-2015 but many of my observations apply.

I got nukes, SWOs, pilots, intel, and even a SEAL into OCS. Ask me anything!

I stayed in touch with my recruiter for OCS throughout my career. Ran into him a few years later at NAS Sig, and he got me onto the manifest for a 4-star he was ferrying around, best Space A jaunt ever.

Met two officer recruiters on the Quad in front of the P.O. at Wake Forest U, and the journey began. 20th C., of course, since my OCS section was 78-xxx!

Will you take a look at this thread and the poster I was assisting? No doubt you can offer more pinpointed advice.

Post in thread 'San Diego NROTC Preparatory Program Insight?'
https://www.serviceacademyforums.co...preparatory-program-insight.84831/post-870310

 

[Blueandgold2000]

I was an officer recruiter that found tremendous success through hard work, candid conversations, and genuine investment in the young men and women that came to me. Between those I sent to OCS and the hundreds more that weren't eligible, I have a lot of experience and want to assist. Granted, the recruiting environment / market now is much different than in 2013-2015 but many of my observations apply.

I got nukes, SWOs, pilots, intel, and even a SEAL into OCS. Ask me anything!

I’d like any and ALL info I can get my hands on regarding OCS as I was dually rejected from USNA and that door has since closed

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

I’d like any and ALL info I can get my hands on regarding OCS as I was dually rejected from USNA and that door has since closed

Feel free to DM specific questions. A few pieces of general advice:

- Regardless of what community you want to apply for, be it surface warfare, aviation, or supply corps, the best GPA in the most rigorous degree combined with a strong ASTB score are essential

- All the things you did to be eligible for USNA are not a waste. From fitness to good moral character, you must keep those habits in place. Don't fall temptation to the vices of "normal" college which flirt with the potential of disqualifying you

- If you're interested in nuclear power, NUPOC is the best financial deal I'm aware of

- At least in 2013-2015, most OCS selections were made earlier in the fiscal year, so all things equal I would work with your recruiter to time you package for that timeframe

- The recruiter....sadly not all recruiters are made equally. With a few exceptions (NUPOC or CEC) you won't be able to do much with a recruiter until you're within one year of finishing your undergrad. As you're finishing your junior year of college I would find the local recruiting station and explicitly ask for an officer recruiter. Convey, without being rude, that you're savvy to the intricacies and don't want to get railroaded into enlisting. Of course, this is provided that you are a competitive officer applicant. Anecdotal but I would occasionally see naive but competitive college graduates get guided toward enlisting because the enlisted recruiters needed numbers. The inverse was the clown with a 2.1 GPA in interdisciplinary studies remaining adamant he'd be an officer despite my insistence that enlisting was the only viable path into the Navy for him

 

[Blueandgold2000]

Feel free to DM specific questions. A few pieces of general advice:

- Regardless of what community you want to apply for, be it surface warfare, aviation, or supply corps, the best GPA in the most rigorous degree combined with a strong ASTB score are essential

- All the things you did to be eligible for USNA are not a waste. From fitness to good moral character, you must keep those habits in place. Don't fall temptation to the vices of "normal" college which flirt with the potential of disqualifying you

- If you're interested in nuclear power, NUPOC is the best financial deal I'm aware of

- At least in 2013-2015, most OCS selections were made earlier in the fiscal year, so all things equal I would work with your recruiter to time you package for that timeframe

- The recruiter....sadly not all recruiters are made equally. With a few exceptions (NUPOC or CEC) you won't be able to do much with a recruiter until you're within one year of finishing your undergrad. As you're finishing your junior year of college I would find the local recruiting station and explicitly ask for an officer recruiter. Convey, without being rude, that you're savvy to the intricacies and don't want to get railroaded into enlisting. Of course, this is provided that you are a competitive officer applicant. Anecdotal but I would occasionally see naive but competitive college graduates get guided toward enlisting because the enlisted recruiters needed numbers. The inverse was the clown with a 2.1 GPA in interdisciplinary studies remaining adamant he'd be an officer despite my insistence that enlisting was the only viable path into the Navy for him

That’s the tricky part is recruiters not being able to further assist until the Bachelors is completed. Know of any recent OCS grads that could give some application insight?

 

[No1Fanof2]

Talking with my DD recent OCS (CG) grad knowing what the OCS program will demand should be on the radar and preparation for the college graduate. She saw people who attended maritime universities rotc college involvement to be more successful in OCS. Her college and major hindered her. (Pysch major) BUT she had drive, knowledge/experience to work coheasively as a team from playing college athletics, which gave leadership qualities that kept her successful. She didnt get her top 10 for her billet but she still got a great billet.

It is highly competitive. Interviews, related OJT, recommendations is part of the package when applying. Timing is critical follow up too. Being a reapplicant my DD took a long shot to apply to the academy, denied. Played college ball kept up with her grades and took on additional leadership roles. Applied during covid for the CSPI program and was waitlisted(They took in less that year) What a heart break right??? Nope, It showed them she wanted to be there. Each time she added stronger support to her application.

A High GPA may not be enough to get one in depending who is applying. Found this out both for my DD and best friends son(Navy OCS). You may get a group in with an average of a 3.9 and all engineering stem majors applying. What sets the 3.5 applicant apart? Then you have priors applying with the same GPA. Majority of her class were prior enlisted. I think this why recruiters also push towards enlisting first.

OCS requires a lot of OTJ previous training to keep the candidate successful and confident. Most of the priors did much better in OCS. They were also found to be the leaders in their OCS class.

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

I think this why recruiters also push towards enlisting first.

I'd politely disagree. The system isn't setup very elegantly and many individuals with officer aspirations are a little naive and wander into recruiting stations where the entire operation is meeting enlisted goals. As such, those enlisted recruiters have an incentive to steer potential OCS applicants toward enlisting. Don't get me wrong, the officer mission is very important but from a recruiting command perspective, it is my observation that the size and scope of the enlisted mission drives behavior at the recruiter level. USNA and NROTC provide so many Officers that OCS becomes >somewhat< of a second order priority.

OCS is also the primary avenue for enlisted sailors to pursue commissioning, hence the observation of more prior-enlisted in OCS. I wouldn't stress that though -- no one will care who was the best in OCS. Long term career success is iterative.

@Blueandgold2000 -- I'm out of touch with recent grads. However, not being able to assist until BS/BA complete isn't fully true. NUPOC can get contracted and receive E-6 pay starting their sophomore year. CEC have a similar option. For the non-engineers, I prepped many a SWO/Pilot/NFO/Intel package during their senior year and submitted such that results only required verification of degree completion. I'm sympathetic to this specific challenge though: It's unfortunate that someone will finish college and then effectively be told, "You can have a career in the Navy after this five month application process, a four month wait for board results, and then a five month wait to start OCS."

 

[Blueandgold2000]

I'd politely disagree. The system isn't setup very elegantly and many individuals with officer aspirations are a little naive and wander into recruiting stations where the entire operation is meeting enlisted goals. As such, those enlisted recruiters have an incentive to steer potential OCS applicants toward enlisting. Don't get me wrong, the officer mission is very important but from a recruiting command perspective, it is my observation that the size and scope of the enlisted mission drives behavior at the recruiter level. USNA and NROTC provide so many Officers that OCS becomes >somewhat< of a second order priority.

OCS is also the primary avenue for enlisted sailors to pursue commissioning, hence the observation of more prior-enlisted in OCS. I wouldn't stress that though -- no one will care who was the best in OCS. Long term career success is iterative.

@Blueandgold2000 -- I'm out of touch with recent grads. However, not being able to assist until BS/BA complete isn't fully true. NUPOC can get contracted and receive E-6 pay starting their sophomore year. CEC have a similar option. For the non-engineers, I prepped many a SWO/Pilot/NFO/Intel package during their senior year and submitted such that results only required verification of degree completion. I'm sympathetic to this specific challenge though: It's unfortunate that someone will finish college and then effectively be told, "You can have a career in the Navy after this five month application process, a four month wait for board results, and then a five month wait to start OCS."

Just sent a pm so we can further discuss as my situation is unique.

 

[No1Fanof2]

I'd politely disagree. The system isn't setup very elegantly and many individuals with officer aspirations are a little naive and wander into recruiting stations where the entire operation is meeting enlisted goals. As such, those enlisted recruiters have an incentive to steer potential OCS applicants toward enlisting. Don't get me wrong, the officer mission is very important but from a recruiting command perspective, it is my observation that the size and scope of the enlisted mission drives behavior at the recruiter level. USNA and NROTC provide so many Officers that OCS becomes >somewhat< of a second order priority.

OCS is also the primary avenue for enlisted sailors to pursue commissioning, hence the observation of more prior-enlisted in OCS. I wouldn't stress that though -- no one will care who was the best in OCS. Long term career success is iterative.

@Blueandgold2000 -- I'm out of touch with recent grads. However, not being able to assist until BS/BA complete isn't fully true. NUPOC can get contracted and receive E-6 pay starting their sophomore year. CEC have a similar option. For the non-engineers, I prepped many a SWO/Pilot/NFO/Intel package during their senior year and submitted such that results only required verification of degree completion. I'm sympathetic to this specific challenge though: It's unfortunate that someone will finish college and then effectively be told, "You can have a career in the Navy after this five month application process, a four month wait for board results, and then a five month wait to start OCS."

I would like to send you a PM to as well I think you can explain some other intricacies to this process.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Convey, without being rude, that you're savvy to the intricacies and don't want to get railroaded into enlisting.

the size and scope of the enlisted mission drives behavior at the recruiter level

LOL..had to laugh at this one. One of my favorite stories was the summer leave between NAPS and I'day, I received a blind call from a USMC recruiter, who started out asking what I was doing that afternoon. (Imagine deep southern drawl, "what ya'll doing today ? "). Being the smarta$$ Navy Seaman Apprentice, I decided to play along... " Oh, I'm just hanging around and chilling this summer..." Staff Sgt USMC thinks he's got fresh meat ready for the fire, so he asks if I want to come down to the recruiting station to talk about the Marine Corps, and I explained I was home on leave and checking into the Naval Academy in a few weeks.. Staff Sgt was nonplussed, and asked me if I wanted to come down anyway.....

 

[Day-Tripper]

I was an officer recruiter that found tremendous success through hard work, candid conversations, and genuine investment in the young men and women that came to me. Between those I sent to OCS and the hundreds more that weren't eligible, I have a lot of experience and want to assist. Granted, the recruiting environment / market now is much different than in 2013-2015 but many of my observations apply.

I got nukes, SWOs, pilots, intel, and even a SEAL into OCS. Ask me anything!

For the general college-age public whom might be seeking a Naval officer career, could you dummy down the process?

As I understand it, unlike Army OCS, Marine Corps OCS or Air Force OTS, where after you graduate the respective service assigns you to where they need you (except for pilots), with Navy OCS the applicant must choose what type of officer duty you want. Example, you don't attend Navy OCS and, upon graduation, find out what duty you'll be assigned to - you know on Day One (if selected).

Please correct me if this incorrect.

Also, do potential Naval officers have to be recuited by a special officer recuiter, not just pop into a US Navy recruiting office? How do potential applicants find out where to go to get the process started?

When should potential Navy OCS candidiates start the process? Beginning of senior year?

Is all Navy OCS at Newport, Rhode Island? How long? Or do you go to different locations based on your job? Different lengths depending on assignment? How about post-OCS schools?

Suppose an applicant wants to be Tom Cruise (either as an aviator like in Top Gun or an attorney like in A Few Good Men)? What's the process?

Are there websites sources for potential applicants (apart from this one, of course)?

Thanks!!!

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

For the general college-age public whom might be seeking a Naval officer career, could you dummy down the process?

In general: put together application to include medical, transcripts, necessary application information, and take OAR/ASTB. Submit and wait for board results.

As I understand it, unlike Army OCS, Marine Corps OCS or Air Force OTS, where after you graduate the respective service assigns you to where they need you (except for pilots), with Navy OCS the applicant must choose what type of officer duty you want. Example, you don't attend Navy OCS and, upon graduation, find out what duty you'll be assigned to - you know on Day One (if selected).

Please correct me if this incorrect.

Correct as I interpret what you're saying. OCS applicants typically put three communities, highest priority to lowest. For example: 1 - Pilot, 2 - NFO, 3 - Intel. Everyone who put pilot as #1 competes. For simplicity, let's say there's ten of them and Naval Aviation needs five people: if they select five from that group of ten, anyone with Pilot as #2 or 3 won't even get looked at for Pilot. But if Naval Aviation only picks four, they'll take one more from the next group that remains who didn't get their #1. This is how I understand it and while I've done a lot, I haven't sat an OCS selection board so I'm passing along second-hand information. However, this isn't true for all communities -- nuke power and CEC have their own processes.

Also, do potential Naval officers have to be recuited by a special officer recuiter, not just pop into a US Navy recruiting office? How do potential applicants find out where to go to get the process started?

This is arguably the hardest part! It shouldn't be sadly. It depends slightly on how that region's NTAG is doing things. The recruiting stations in my geographic area knew that if someone walked in and asked about officer, just give that person my number. I've seen other areas where the stations process enlisted applicants and officers. My general advice is to try and find someone who specializes in officer recruiting.

When should potential Navy OCS candidiates start the process? Beginning of senior year?

For most -- yes, beginning of senior year. Ideally everything is prepped, you get board accepted, and once verification of graduation is done, off to OCS ASAP. That said, nuclear power (NUPOC) can go through the process during their sophomore year, get accepted, and earn E-6 pay the remainder of college (with time in service growing and leave accruement). CEC has a similar offer. Those communities offer those benefits because finding talented STEM majors is hard!

Is all Navy OCS at Newport, Rhode Island? How long? Or do you go to different locations based on your job? Different lengths depending on assignment? How about post-OCS schools?

OCS is in Newport. 12 weeks. Everyone. Afterward depends entirely on what community you selected for. Supply stay there for supply school. SWOs go to a ship. Aviation to pensacola. SEALs to Coronado. Etc.

Suppose an applicant wants to be Tom Cruise (either as an aviator like in Top Gun or an attorney like in A Few Good Men)? What's the process?

Top Gun -- follow the above. Crush the ASTB section of the test. A Few Good Men -- JAG is the only community I know of with an entirely separate process that doesn't use recruiters. It's basically an online application.

Are there websites sources for potential applicants (apart from this one, of course)?

Of course. Too many to list, though I always like to reference the program authorizations which give basic application requirements. NOTE: These are the minimums.

Thanks!!!

Happy to help!

 

[OldRetSWO]

OCS is in Newport. 12 weeks. Everyone. Afterward depends entirely on what community you selected for. Supply stay there for supply school. SWOs go to a ship. Aviation to pensacola. SEALs to Coronado. Etc.

I was stationed in Newport at various times as an Ensign, LCDR and CDR and during all of those times, there was a school that was run seperate to OCS that provided initial training to Doctors, Dentists, Nurses and Lawyers. It used to be called Officer Indoctrination School (OIS) but that was later changed to Officer Development School (ODS) . Did OCS and ODS merge?

Once upon a time, Ens OldRetSWO used to date nurses who were going through OIS

 

[Capt MJ]

I was stationed in Newport at various times as an Ensign, LCDR and CDR and during all of those times, there was a school that was run seperate to OCS that provided initial training to Doctors, Dentists, Nurses and Lawyers. It used to be called Officer Indoctrination School (OIS) but that was later changed to Officer Development School (ODS) . Did OCS and ODS merge?

Once upon a time, Ens OldRetSWO used to date nurses who were going through OIS

ODS is still separate. I liked it when they were OISters and the butt of many jokes by those of us at OCS. They were mostly out of direct commissioning programs, already commissioned, but learning about uniforms, ranks, saluting, etc. As if we OCs were not wet behind the ears…. I assume “Indoctrination” went out of favor for “Development” lo these many years ago. I doubt they are called “ODSters” though. Too bad.

I see Ens Old Ret SWO engaged strategically with them.

Officer Training Command, Home of Navy OCS - Home Page

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

Did OCS and ODS merge?

Once upon a time, Ens OldRetSWO used to date nurses who were going through OIS

@Capt MJ is right. For more detail as I understand things:

ODS is for most active duty staff corps officers: JAG, MC, DC, Chaplains, etc. DCO (Direct Commission Officer) was the equivalent for Reserve Officers. Someone applies to a be a RC Supply Officer and their first two week AT would be DCO school. However, a few years ago DCO was merged with ODS in an effort to give those RC Officers a little more training and militarization.

Thing about it: A straight into the RC Officer could be a LT in four years with only ~152 days in uniform. Not that bumping that to ~173 days is a huge difference, but its something.

 

[thezeekster]

Hello sir,



If it isnt too much trouble I would like to ask your opinion in my situation. I graduated college in Dec 2022 with degree in Mechanical Engineering, submitted my package and told them I could go ASAP the very first time I got in touch with my officer recruiter back in july 2022. I got selected for SWO and got my shipping date on March 24. The problem is, I actually couldnt go on that date for family reasons. On top of that, the navy apparently doesnt want to push back my shipping date as they have become strict with this. I was thinking about rejecting this comissioning and then resubmitting my package again in the summer in hopes of getting a spot for ocs again. What are your thoughts about this? Are my chances of getting in very very slim the 2nd time around? I simply want to delay my shipping date but they dont want to honor it and therefore i am going to deny this comissioning to reapply at a later date. Motivation wise, I am still very determined to make a career out of being a naval officer.



Regards,

Ezekiel

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

@thezeekster -- I'm terribly sorry for the delay. I'll spare the details but I've been dealing with a family emergency and an uptick in work responsibilities at the same time.

Since we're past March 24th, what happened? It is likely too late to be helpful but here are some thoughts:

- I understand why the Navy doesn't want to push back the shipping date. They're coordinating a massive machine and a change disrupts that machine. Could it be done? Yes, but it's a challenge and there's likely an alternate that will jump at the opportunity if you decline.

- IMO, the odds of being accepted on a second application come down to the family reasons. To that -- you'll need to address the reasons in your possible re-application. I know that may get into personal family issues but specifics will help the board be understanding. On this I will say that's a big difference between family issues representing an inconvenience and an emergency. Remember, you're asking to be a SWO. If you're on deployment and you want to fly home for some reason, there's a long gradient between understandable family emergencies and those that are seemingly superfluous.

- The good news is the Navy choose you once and the Navy remains in need of good applicants, so if you did decline I believe your odds of re-acceptance are good.

Best of luck and please let me know.

 

[lyz]

I saw your AMA post and 1st of all wanted to thank you for offering.

I’ve been trying to get to USN ODS for over 6 months now. I went to USMC OCS last winter (Jan 2023) but got dropped due to injury. I still want to serve, and have a PE license in civil engineering, so decided on USN CEC Reserves. I started my USN ODS application in Feb 2023.

Since Feb 2023, working with my Reserve Officer Recruiter has been like pulling teeth. I have to send a dozen messages over several days just to get one response back. I respond within a minute, and I don’t hear back again for weeks. I provide signed documents, out-of-pocket evals for my MEPS waivers, EVERYTHING that’s requested of me within the day. And I get back “who dis?” or “did you ever send this document to me?” weeks after I indeed sent it to my recruiter and thought my application was moving along fine. I frequently discover that my application was stagnant the entire time. I’ve contacted local enlisted and active duty officer recruiters, but they all lead me back to my recruiter. There were crickets for weeks, until I finally called the enlisted NTAG lead for my entire two-state geo and he called my recruiter to see what was going on — only then did I finally receive a message from my recruiter “oh yeah, I forgot about it and I lost your phone number oops”, despite me messaging my recruiter every couple of days for several weeks. I’ve asked to be assigned to another Reserve Officer recruiter, but they all say my recruiter is the only one in my geo. It’s like my recruiter is intentionally ignoring me. I don’t think I will ever get to ODS because of this obstacle. I already missed the 2023 CEC Boards because of all the delays.

Any suggestions on what I can do? Is my USN Reserve Officer career at the mercy of this indifferent recruiter, or is this very normal? I’m DESPERATE.

I think I’m possibly more stressed than I may need to be, because the USMC Officer Selection Officers were ON THEIR GAME in terms of communication and preparedness. They got me in shape (1st class PFT), board-selected, and shipped off to Quantico in less time than I’ve spent trying to get a call back from my USN Reserve Officer recruiter. Please set me straight if I’m expecting too much.

Thank you!!

Background: PE-licensed, 10+ years industry experience, Master of Engineering degree, 99 ASVAB, high PFA.

 

[lyz]

I was an officer recruiter that found tremendous success through hard work, candid conversations, and genuine investment in the young men and women that came to me. Between those I sent to OCS and the hundreds more that weren't eligible, I have a lot of experience and want to assist. Granted, the recruiting environment / market now is much different than in 2013-2015 but many of my observations apply.

I got nukes, SWOs, pilots, intel, and even a SEAL into OCS. Ask me anything!

I should have replied to your post directly. Please see my post in this thread, right above this one. TIA!

 

[Capt MJ]

@lyz
I am sorry you are having this recruiting challenge, as you seem to be well-qualified. While awaiting a response from @USNA_STEM_Prof , I went poking around on my own. Quite properly, you are trying to deal with going through the “front door” via Reserve officer recruiting.

I thought about other doors where you might diplomatically knock, stick your head in and ask for lateral help. The link below is for the MyNavyHR page for the Reserve CEC Officer Community Manager. All Navy officer communities have an OCM, who role it is to focus on community career development, end strength, etc. In essence, they set the intake goals for the Recruiting arm to reach, in quality and quantity per FY. They have a vested interest in seeing well-qualified people come into their community. There is a link on the page below which takes you to an email for the actual OCM. If you cannot get anywhere through Recruiting contacts, you could ask for advice for how best to resolve your situation. A concise, well-written email, stating upfront what help you need, with a few bullets in your background, something roughly like…

“I am contacting you for advice on how to break through a CEC Reserve Officer accession logjam, having tried without success to ascertain my status with regard to my current application and ODS. I recognize the Community Manager is not the responsible Navy Reserve recruiting entity, but I am at a loss as to how to move forward and would appreciate advice on steps I can take to keep my application active. I am motivated to join the Navy Reserve CEC community and believe I am a strong candidate.

My goal is not to get my recruiter in trouble, but I started my application in February of this year, and continue to encounter lost emails, missing documentation, unreturned emails and phone calls, and what seems to me like no forward progress.

Some key points:
- PE-licensed, 10+ years industry experience, Master of Engineering degree from X, 99 ASVAB, high PFA. Age:
- Was in USMC OCS through Jan 2023 but was dropped for an injury. Now recovered. Have sent supporting documentation.
- Have provided all requested documentation promptly.
- **Other bullet points that might help immediately clarify your situation, but don’t overdo it.

Again, I know the Recruiting process is not in your direct control, but I would welcome your insight as to how I can successfully get my application into consideration and be in the best possible place to hope for acceptance and eventual orders to ODS.

Thank you for any assistance you can provide. I can be contacted at (email) and (phone). My last four of my SSN are X, for identification purposes. (Assume you have had to supply your SSN and DOB.) “

RC CEC

As I said, this is knocking on a door on the inside of the house, but you never know what help you might find. Keep n mind too that the govt FY ends on Sep 30. FY 2024 starts 1 Oct with new recruiting intake goals. There is no way of knowing how the needs of the Navy are playing a role into how and when your package will get reviewed.