If your 4C/plebe is ready to quit ....

H

HikerMom

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Dec 31, 2020
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Hi parents, as we prepare to send our young adults back to school this month, I'd love to hear from others with plebes/4C's at service academies who are ready to leave. (I've read the excellent advice from others in the thread begun in October, but would love to hear from other parents who are dealing with this right now.) We definitely want our kid to hang in there through the summer, and know the conversations about "making a plan," but these are pretty emotional conversations. It's difficult knowing how much they wanted this last spring.
But just so I know I'm not alone: How are you handling it, both in conversations with your child and with yourself?
 
I would love to PM you about this but cannot as you are a new member. Once you have enough posts, I can connect you to a parent privately if you would like.

Outside of that, one thing I would try, is ‘maki g a deal with them’ to go back for the last semester. I feel like, after that, if they want out, I would be all in for it. But finish what they started...get a year to transfer to another school.

I do think it’s going to be hard for many TO go back. It was pretty cruddy. But its also cruddy everywhere. And I personally believe the worst cruddy is about over.

At the end of the day, is their own decision. I would ask my own to trust me, and to do this spring semester. And then honor their choice. Realizing at age 17/18, kids think they know...but until they are actually on their own? They have no idea.

Hugs to you. Hang in there. This too shall pass!
 
A1Janitor said:
Good luck.

Is there any indication that Covid has influenced this thought?
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Not sure. Certainly they spent more time alone in their room than they’d like, and my kid is not naturally gregarious. And sports weren’t the same this year.
 
This year is not normal for anyone by any stretch of the imagination. This is the break the mids all need and yet will struggle with the daunting task of returning and enduring the dark ages and the rest of their plebe year. Meanwhile they are after all, just young adults trying to make their way and not knowing how it will all turn out may fill their minds with trepidation.
My plebe is looking forward to going back to the yard. He missed his roommate and mentors before he even left the tarmac. But he also is concerned about the academic schedule and increased running and possible reinjury. He is so excited about the career component. Really soaking up the knowledge offered. Those are the parts I remind him of on bad days.


My counsel to him will continue to be that he remember his why. Why he pursued it. Why he was elated at news of appointment. And then to remember that a day is long, a week short and a semester gone before you know it.
As a wise one said regarding this, it is their choice to get off of the merry go round. I would always counsel to wait another day. Another month. Finish a year and then revisit. Tough times for all to be sure.
 
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Mine hasn’t meshed with their first roommate, (got along fine, just no tight friendships) then didn’t get their first or second choice for Spring roommate and has struggled to find their tribe at the academy. And, ha, doesn’t like being told what to do all the time, though I suppose that gets better next year.
Are there no other plebes out there struggling? We’re told as parents that many 4C’s question their decision, but I wonder if it’s actually very few.
 
HikerMom said:
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Mine hasn’t meshed with their first roommate, (got along fine, just no tight friendships) then didn’t get their first or second choice for Spring roommate and has struggled to find their tribe at the academy. And, ha, doesn’t like being told what to do all the time, though I suppose that gets better next year.
Are there no other plebes out there struggling? We’re told as parents that many 4C’s question their decision, but I wonder if it’s actually very few.
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I would be interested to hear from others as well on this topic. Academy bonds are often referenced but what happens when a cadet has trouble finding their circle? Besides the same advice that would apply to any college experience - is there any advice specific to the academy to help cadet find their people?
 
Learning to get along and thrive with those who aren’t in your tribe is a huge skillset for military careers. You never know who you’ll have to share a room with, whether on shore or on land. Very helpful to understand that you don’t have to be perfectly simpatico to have a cordial and productive relationship with someone. Roommates will come and go — just a fact of life.

DD had amazing roommates her first two years at USNA. The three of them became quite close. But in 2/C year, both roommates turned over. One didn’t sign 2-for-7 and the other transferred companies (for a very good and positive reason). So just like that, DD had to become accustomed to two new roomies, neither of them of her own choosing or a prior acquaintance, as they came from other companies. Now, midway through the year, they get along very well.

As for finding your tribe outside the company, I suggest focusing on a few extracurriculars that you're passionate about. Remember that most adult relationships are built on common interests. Be an active participant, not just a wallflower. DD found her outside-company tribe by joining her favorite sport’s club team. Didn’t hurt that she was one of the better players, even as a plebe, which made her a bit more interesting. Patience and persistence will help your plebe.
 
It’s a little challenging so far this year to ‘find your people’. Bc they are basically tied to their companies. And additionally, many ECA’s are either paused or halted. Or at the very least, the fun, informal gatherings of the ECA’s are highly curtailed. All thanks to COVID. There are SO many opportunities normally! That are simply not there at the moment. But they will be!! And that’s unfortunate, especially for a plebe (or any freshman, as I am also hearing this same problem from other freshman parents at regular colleges). Actually, at USNA, there is MORE going on than regular college in this area of meeting people. I applaud USNA for doing as much as they are.

Your person needs to be active in finding others. Sometimes it takes awhile, but there are opportunities to meet people. Try religious groups, minority clubs. Chess. Fishing. Literally there is something for everyone. I’ve heard that the FCA is a good one as they do mission type things off campus. They are very active. Give it a try! Make a promise to try one group.

These challenges are all normal parts of moving beyond high school. It tales an active effort to find connections: to have a friend, you have to be a friend.

I was surprised at what I learned my plebe had tried out for, while here on leave. Even Glee club (the boy CANNOT carry a tune...) 😂. He started out with a sport, but COVID had taken a toll. So he had to regroup. Now he is in a traveling team, having a ball. It’s a different thing I ever would have thought, but he has made a niche.

(posted at the same time as @MidCakePa...same ideas)
 
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It’s more common than you think. Most question it when they are have a bad day, or hear about their friends having fun times at college. Many feel that way but don’t communicate it.

3C has been much better than 4C.

If someone wants to leave for legitimate reasons, they should. They need to come to an understanding about their reasons, and ultimately if their reasons are valid for them. Others’ reasons don’t matter.

Also - the grass isn’t greener on the other side necessarily. Roommates at regular colleges can make people unhappy too.
 
As a USMA graduate who also has a DS at USMA (4/C) I can fully understand the feeling of dread that pervades a return to academy life after what has been a very tough and unique year. Fortunately my DS seems to have adapted quite well and managed to mesh tightly with his first semester roommates. All that said, I hear the dread in his voice as his return date approaches. My advice to him (like others who have posted) is to keep grinding on through May and then take stock of your situation. Before he left for WP last July I asked him the proverbial question “How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.”

What normally happens in second semester plebe year is Jan/Feb and March are tough on the psyche, but by April things start to suddenly look up as spring blooms and suddenly they can taste the end of the year.

The best approach is to take it one semester at a time and then adjust. Good luck to everyone.
 
HikerMom said:
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Mine hasn’t meshed with their first roommate, (got along fine, just no tight friendships) then didn’t get their first or second choice for Spring roommate and has struggled to find their tribe at the academy. And, ha, doesn’t like being told what to do all the time, though I suppose that gets better next year.
Are there no other plebes out there struggling? We’re told as parents that many 4C’s question their decision, but I wonder if it’s actually very few.
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I asked my Mids. My oldest had one leave during break of 3/C year. He doesn’t know of others. My plebe has not heard of any not wanting to return among his connections presently.

I think many, at some point, question what they are doing. But the number that actually quit, after thinking things through rationally VS emotionally, is far fewer. Everyone has a bad day. Or 20. But is that a reason to quit? Can be if this isn’t their jam. But....like a wise poster hear says....‘don’t run from something, rather run to something’. The military isn’t for everyone! But it’s also normal to question what in the world you are doing. And that’s NOT unique to military. It’s human nature.
 
A1Janitor said:
It’s more common than you think. Most question it when they are have a bad day, or hear about their friends having fun times at college. Many feel that way but don’t communicate it.

3C has been much better than 4C.

If someone wants to leave for legitimate reasons, they should. They need to come to an understanding about their reasons, and ultimately if their reasons are valid for them. Others’ reasons don’t matter.

Also - the grass isn’t greener on the other side necessarily. Roommates at regular colleges can make people unhappy too.
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I had to laugh out loud about college roommates. I was an only child, but my parents both came from large families, so learning to share was a big thing with them. My assigned college roomie came from a family of 4 sisters, and when she ran out of clean clothes, she borrowed mine. Without asking. I’d be looking for a favorite sweater and find it in the laundry hamper. Then she borrowed the guy I was dating. 🙄
 
Capt MJ said:
I had to laugh out loud about college roommates. I was an only child, but my parents both came from large families, so learning to share was a big thing with them. My assigned college roomie came from a family of 4 sisters, and when she ran out of clean clothes, she borrowed mine. Without asking. I’d be looking for a favorite sweater and find it in the laundry hamper. Then she borrowed the guy I was dating. 🙄
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LMAO

I used to have quite a few student houses. This is exactly what I had in the back of my mind.

One girl backed out of lease ... pretended to be transferring to a different school. Nope - the other girls didn’t want her there anymore because she slept with one of her roommates boyfriends.

Another young lady calls me up to discuss how she can’t live with her roommate anymore because of some trivial problem. While on the phone the roommate calls me up - I tell her I will call her back because I am talking to the other one. She said “I know, I am sitting with her in the living room.” Leave me alone and figure it out. Click.
 
1. It is a 47 month journey, and not all months will be good. The bad ones will feel endless, hopeless, and profoundly lonely. Some experience these months upfront, others it's a low grade constant as they are always on probation for something.

2. It's not about being happy. It's about the self-worth, self-confidence, and sense of accomplishment or bridging the skills to become accomplished. You do not gain these without going through extreme trials. But that is why you, and only you and 1100 other BFFs were chosen in 2024. Why are there so many good students, good athletes? Because they only do what they are already good at. To be GREAT is to face those challenges that are uncomfortable (and often confused with being unhappy) and walk a path very few with understand.

3. Try to go through each element. Reinforce on staying positive and open-minded. Reward for process, not on outcome. Things may not always go the way you planned, but to look back and say you did all you could - the process - will more often than not result in expected outcome. Academics? Is he using all the resources available to him? Where did he end up after 1st semester, and what is a realistic but meaning challenge for him? Ditto for military and athletic. What is in your control vs. not? Especially in these times, learn the difference between what you can optimize vs. satisfy. With restricted movement and sports, you can probably only satisfy, but you can still strategize, substitute and/or look for alternatives within the rules.

4. Parents these days tend to reward on outcome, and immediate results, such as "She's so happy! BFF roommates! Found her people! etc" but realize everyone in the Wing is going to stumble or have doubts at any one time. You will find meaningful relationships and friendships, and it doesn't matter how you started out 1st semester, but where you end up with 7 more to go. Specifically for your DS, you seem worried that he hasn't found his people. But then again, neither did his roommate in your DS. The important thing I would stress is did you get along? Do you respect each other? Respect trumps BFFs. Remember some of this, perhaps a lot of it, is normal high school to college transition.
 
justdoit19 said:
It’s a little challenging so far this year to ‘find your people’. Bc they are basically tied to their companies. And additionally, many ECA’s are either paused or halted. Or at the very least, the fun, informal gatherings of the ECA’s are highly curtailed. All thanks to COVID. There are SO many opportunities normally! That are simply not there at the moment. But they will be!! And that’s unfortunate, especially for a plebe (or any freshman, as I am also hearing this same problem from other freshman parents at regular colleges). Actually, at USNA, there is MORE going on than regular college in this area of meeting people. I applaud USNA for doing as much as they are.

Your person needs to be active in finding others. Sometimes it takes awhile, but there are opportunities to meet people. Try religious groups, minority clubs. Chess. Fishing. Literally there is something for everyone. I’ve heard that the FCA is a good one as they do mission type things off campus. They are very active. Give it a try! Make a promise to try one group.

These challenges are all normal parts of moving beyond high school. It tales an active effort to find connections: to have a friend, you have to be a friend.

I was surprised at what I learned my plebe had tried out for, while here on leave. Even Glee club (the boy CANNOT carry a tune...) 😂. He started out with a sport, but COVID had taken a toll. So he had to regroup. Now he is in a traveling team, having a ball. It’s a different thing I ever would have thought, but he has made a niche.

(posted at the same time as @MidCakePa...same ideas)
Click to expand...
I never really was "in" with my company until many years after graduation and now some of us share houses for reunions, etc. My friend group was mostly from my sports team and I'm still pretty close to some of them. Actually several of my teammates had children who became my son's teammates (yeah, think about that a bit). My closest friend and teammate had two sons attend but they did not join the team but the older son hung out in my (second classman) son's room for a refuge during his plebe year.
My son on the other hand was much closer to his companymates than I was.
 
HikerMom said:
Are there no other plebes out there struggling? We’re told as parents that many 4C’s question their decision, but I wonder if it’s actually very few.
Click to expand...

I wrote this in an earlier thread about this topic and will save myself the effort of retyping:
I can truthfully say that for both my time at USNA and my son's time at USNA there were zero calls home/discussions with parents about quitting.
The circumstances were very different between he and I but the result was the same.

As a plebe, I was the classic screw-up and I attracted upperclassmen like flies and then academic year started and I proceeded to do pretty poorly. Years later when I told my now-wife about it, I'm not sure that she fully believed me until she started to meet my classmates and they have related the same to her. Anyway, the crush of upperclassmen who in the style of the old days, tried to get me to quit was extremely rough. My reaction was a stubborn digging in as I was decided that the only way I'd leave would be if I was kicked out. Gradually, I got better at the books and the rest followed. Post plebe year, some fun entered my life at times and I was able to use my visions of the future to sustain me through the tough times.

My son rode in knowing quite a bit more than I did and proceeded to stay under the radar quite well. Plebe year academics came easy for him and he ended up tutoring a couple of his company mates on a continuing basis. He did what he wanted to do and had fun doing it.

He never had any crises that I know of so I just return to my own. For me it was all about mindset - I expected it to be tough and I decided that I'd be tougher. To paraphrase the Marine recruiting commercial that came later "They never promised me a Rose Garden", I saw the Naval Academy as a huge test of who I was and was determined to make it through.

Like many USNA grads, I had a variety of roommates during my time at USNA but the two who I roomed with for over two years and I stuck together because we were pretty similar. One was an African American guy from a poorly performing urban public high school and he struggled with USNA academics and swimming. The other was also a minority from a different semi-urban somewhat crappy public school system and he'd already turned back from the class ahead of us. There just wasn't any quit among any of us and the end result was all three of us graduated and all did 20 or more years of Active Duty or Reserves.
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It's a grind that you have to get through. Regimental life plus college work is difficult. I kept a journal all 4 years and checked off each day as a count down. Then my mom died while I was at school. After the funeral, I did not want to return. My dad put me in the car and drove me to the airport. It was very difficult but I am glad he made me return. They used to say diamonds are created under pressure. I am in the same situation with my son who is a senior. I just tell him I know how it feels and just gutted it out until graduation.
 
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