Importance of school profile?

There are four female cadets, my daughter is one of them, from the same high school of 650 total students, at USAFA right now. I think admissions has some idea if candidates will be ready for the academic rigors.
 
This is why it's so important to take AP classes, the IB program, and do well on the ACT/SAT. Especially if your school doesn't offer the IB program or many AP classes. The SAT/ACT are one of the few constants nationally. A person can complain about their school; GPA formula; Class Rank; classes available; etc... But if your SAT scores are in the 500's and your ACT high scores are 26-27 then you don't have much to complain about. For most colleges/universities, those aren't bad scores. But for the highly competitive colleges/universities/academies, those scores don't make you very competitive.
 
I think AP classes also are important, not because of rigor, but because the way the system is regarding AP testing.

AP mandates that students take the end of yr tests for the subject.

This is helpful IMPO for kids.

1. The test is like an AP. Everyone in the nation takes it the same day, same test questions, and same allotted time with proffers.

2. If your child has test anxiety, it gets them accustomed to "testing" and may reduce their anxiety for the SAT/ACT.

Our DD had "test anxiety", but because she took APs starting her soph yr., when it came to SAT/ACT end of her jr. yr. she just looked at it as another AP test.
 
Thanks for all of the input! I plan to take every SAT and ACT between now and Decemeber and, of course, study. Hopefully my scores can make up for any short-comings I have on my academic composite.

Not to write a book or anything, but can someone give me their opinion on my course load?

Freshman Year:
PE/Health (required)
Mens Choir
Air Force JROTC
Honors biology
Honors Algebra I
Honors English
Spanish I

Sophomore Year:
Chamber Choir (most advanced choir)
Air Force JROTC
AP World History
Honors English
Honors geometry
Honors chemistry
Spanish II

Junior Year:
Chamber Choir
Air Force JROTC
AP US History
AP English Literature
Honors Algebra II
Honors physics
Spanish III

Senior Year:
Chamber Choir
Air Force JROTC
AP US Government and Politics
AP Macroeconomics
AP Physics AB (not sure about the AB - I'm assuming here)
AP English Composition
Honors pre-cal/trig.

There you have it. However, there are other AP course offered which include:
AP Biology
AP Chem.
AP Stats
AP Calculus
AP Human Geography

I can't take these classes due to my schedule, so will this be counted against me? My class rank is 13/496 with a 4.0 so do I still look competitive or does not taking these classes hurt me? Also, please note that some classes can't be taken because I've taken another (i.e. I can't take AP Chem. because I chose AP Physics over it.)

Thanks for the help and sorry for the book! :)
 
WHOLE CANDIDATE means more than academics.

Nobody in their right mind would chance you without knowing the other 40%. CFA, EC's, etc.

Sorry, but I always laugh at Human Geography. That is an easy A, at least in NC and VA.

Chamber Choir is where my question lies. Some states require an arts for all 4 yrs., some do not. What is the requirement in Indiana? Must you have 4 yrs?
Can you do Choir as an EC without the class?

The thing to understand is getting the best of both worlds (PAR and EC). In other words a balance. Are you willing to drop Chamber Choir and pick up another AP class? Or is Choir your only EC, i.e. no sports, no BSA, no resume distinction and you feel you need it for that portion?
 
m1ndfr34k117 said:
Also, please note that some classes can't be taken because I've taken another (i.e. I can't take AP Chem. because I chose AP Physics over it.)

Thanks for the help and sorry for the book! :)
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The advice my son received was that AP Chemistry is more important than Physics. The AP Physics that you are going to take is not calculus based Physics so the amount of help in preparing you for Physics at the academy is likely to be minimal.

Edit: Reading through your previos posts I see you are a current applicant. You can't change anything at this point so I wouldn't spend time worrying about it.
 
I think AP Physics B/C is Calculus-based since my son needs to be simultaneously enrolled in AP Calculus B/C to take that physics class in his school.
 
If m1ndfr34k117 is a senior, then its not something that he can change, so like Packer said, don't worry about it. But for others applying in the future, I think its important to have both chemistry and physics in high school. All cadets will take chemistry, no matter the major, and its a stumbling block for many cadets and a reason they go on academic probation. And there is a thread on the Class of 2015 Parents Facebook page about the struggles many of their cadets are having in Physics (again all freshmen take it), especially if they didn't have any exposure in high school. The AFA is a tough engineering school, and the more you can prepare yourself, the better!
 
I can drop chamber choir, but I'd rather not because it's an EC that can't be participated in unless you're also in the class.

As for chemistry, will the academy actually care more that you took AP Chem. over AP Physics? I've already submitted my senior schedule and I doubt it can be changed; even then, AP Chem. is the hardest course in the school and I highly think I'll be able to do it next year with my ECs. On that note, I can provide a brief resume if you want. However, I really wanted to know how I'd do for the academic composite (primarily school profile or classes), not necessarily my whole person score.
 
Are you having any fun?

m1ndfr34k117 said:
I can drop chamber choir, but I'd rather not because it's an EC that can't be participated in unless you're also in the class.

As for chemistry, will the academy actually care more that you took AP Chem. over AP Physics? I've already submitted my senior schedule and I doubt it can be changed; even then, AP Chem. is the hardest course in the school and I highly think I'll be able to do it next year with my ECs. On that note, I can provide a brief resume if you want. However, I really wanted to know how I'd do for the academic composite (primarily school profile or classes), not necessarily my whole person score.
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High school should be fun too. If you love the choir, you should sing. I would think participating in music adds to your "whole person." Too much AP this and AP that makes you an AP geek only. Plus, maybe you are over analyzing this whole thing. Have some fun with your friends. :smile:

I'm not an admissions expert. Just my opinion.
 
One class isn't going to make or break it for the Academy. If you've signed up for AP Physics, and can't or don't want to change it for next year, don't worry about it. Its not like "take this class and you're in" or don't take it and you're out. You've taken a lot of honors and AP classes--hopefully you've gotten good grades in them. Your academic score will also include your ACT/SAT scores, GPA, class rank, etc. Its not possible to analyze or say taking a certain class will give you x number of points. The AFA will look at your whole person, like it or not. Go back and re-read Christcorp's responses on this thread--he knows of what he speaks!

If you still want more info, my son took Honors Chem as a soph, AP Physics as a junior and AP Bio (just talking sciences here since your question was about chem vs. physics--he also took other Honors/AP classes) as a senior. He's currently at the academy as a C4C (freshman), so obviously it didn't stop him from getting in.

And I agree with Yorkiemom--stay in choir if you enjoy it, do other things (clubs, activities, volunteering) that you enjoy--they will help you develop as a person also. Its not all about checking off boxes on an application--high school will be over before you know it! Don't miss it!
 
I certainly will! I have a 4.0 right now and I'm ranked 13/496. I'm hoping to do well on the ACT/SAT and I can always work to improve those if I'm not happy with them.
As for EC's, I do choir, National Honor Society, a part-time job, football, track and field, drill team, rifle team, color guard, and academic bowl team. I'm the commander of the drill team and color guard and "captain" (or commander) of the academic bowl team. Plus I'm Deputy Corps Commander for my JROTC corps and an officer. I'm running for choir office and class office next year as well. There are many more things but just to clarify, the reason I don't mention the whole person thing so well is that I feel confident on the EC's and leadership positions. The school profile/classes were all that were bothering me...for now. :)

Thanks again for all of the help!
 
What about private schools? I must admit, I am a bit confused as to what a "4.0" GPA is because my school weights it differently. The only way at my private school to get a 4.0 unweighted is to get a 100% on all classes, regardless of AP/Honors status. By this definition, I have a 3.8, meaning I have high As in all my classes, most of which are AP.

However, whenever I see someone else on here saying that they have a "4.0" unweighted, I think to myself that either they are insanely smart and actually do have 100s in all their classes, or their GPA system is different.

Can anyone help clarify this? I have gone to the college counselor at my school, but I need some outside expertise to help me sort this out.

My candidate portal lists my GPA as 3.79 as well and I'm a 2016 Candidate.
 
First; it has nothing to do with being a private school. Many schools have different weighting/unweighted grading systems. Hence, another reason for providing the school profile. The academies will see what your school grades for perfection and formulate it so it compares with other schools that grade differently.

They also do the same thing for course difficulty. I.e. If you take a regular high school history class and get a 4.0, and another student take IB World History or an AP History class and gets a 4.0, the academy has a way of equalizing that, so the person taking the IB or AP history class gets the appropriate grade compared to the individual who took only the normal basic course. But it gets even more complicated yet. There are some students who don't have the option of taking an AP or IB course class. The academy has to look at what is available; what you took; and how well you did on it. They also compare voluntary classes such as classes you took at the local community college. It's pretty complicated; but they do know what they're doing.
 
iDeltaStorm,

Every yr there are some candidates that will post on this site their gpa changed on their portal and no longer matches the transcript.

This occurs because the AFA re-weighted it to their stds. For some it will go up, for some it will go down, for some it will remain the same.

The same is true regarding how they look at your school. The GC's submit the school profile, and in it they tell the AFA the broad brush strokes of the school, plus the fine strokes too. Fine strokes are like the one Mike has stated. In NC our DS had a 4 block semester system, plus Jump Start. Students had the ability to take APs, but for some classes could only take them if they had already taken Honors. I.E. Had to take Bio Honors, and than later on you could take AP BIO. DD in VA had the choice Std, Honors or APBIO.

It would be unfair to ding the NC student because realistically they couldn't have AP BIO, CHEM and PHYS. because physically they couldn't do it from a scheduling perspective.

You will constantly hear/read people say I go to one of the top schools in the state, but the perspective of what a candidate considers competitive and what the academic world considers competitive or top can be 2 different things.

Top HS in your county is great, but what if you come from a state like FL, NJ, CA, TX, etc., and that school really isn't top in the state. Those lovely School of Excellence banners are nice, but don't confuse that with the school profiles in the state, and if you go over to NWL, nationally. All that banner means is X% passed the No Child Left Behind gateway tests. Big difference than being selected as a Blue Ribbon HS, or making the list on USNWR as 1 of the top 100 in the nation.

That is why the AFA tries to do everything in its power to equalize all of the schools across the country using the profile and the school will be placed into the equation.

You have absolute no control over this situation, and you should not think you are a shoe in because your HS is a top 100, and nor should you believe you are not going to be competitive if your school is considered the worst in the state.

For Ex: 4 yrs ago when DS went through the process, he attended according to county ranking the number 1 HS in the county, yet the only kid accepted to MIT within the county came from the lowest scoring school.

Point is not only will the SAs look at the profile, so do the very competitive colleges that you will use as Plan B. Every candidate should AIM HIGH, but they need to also remember that the SA's are not the only ones that use the school profile method regarding admissions. They just happen to be very transparent and upfront with applicants that this is a part of their selection system.

Good luck
 
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Quality Education in Fla

Hey Pima,

Don't pick on Fla schools (hahahahaha:yllol:). In Sarasota County we have a National Top 10 Elementary/High School in the country....Pine View School. It did well for my son who is currently in the USCGA Class of 2015.

Sculler Dad
 
Christcorp said:
First; it has nothing to do with being a private school. Many schools have different weighting/unweighted grading systems. Hence, another reason for providing the school profile. The academies will see what your school grades for perfection and formulate it so it compares with other schools that grade differently.

They also do the same thing for course difficulty. I.e. If you take a regular high school history class and get a 4.0, and another student take IB World History or an AP History class and gets a 4.0, the academy has a way of equalizing that, so the person taking the IB or AP history class gets the appropriate grade compared to the individual who took only the normal basic course. But it gets even more complicated yet. There are some students who don't have the option of taking an AP or IB course class. The academy has to look at what is available; what you took; and how well you did on it. They also compare voluntary classes such as classes you took at the local community college. It's pretty complicated; but they do know what they're doing.
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I understand what you are saying about USAFA adjusting my GPA according to my school profile, but that's assuming that it was reported on the same scale as the rest of the candidates to begin with.

Let me restate my question in a different format:

Other candidates on here report that they have a 4.0 unweighted GPA, which I understand to mean that they have had As (90-100) on all their semester grades throughout all 4 years of high school. In other words, a 4.0 = 90.

However, at my school, to have an unweighted 4.0 requires that the student have a 100 in all classes for all 4 years. In other words, a 4.0 = 100.

Since my GPA is being reported on the latter scale, but is being compared against other students on the former scale, it looks relatively lower than it really is.

Additionally, I know USAFA has not reconfigured it because it is the same as the GPA reported by my school and listed on my HS transcript.
 
iDeltaStorm said:
I understand what you are saying about USAFA adjusting my GPA according to my school profile, but that's assuming that it was reported on the same scale as the rest of the candidates to begin with.

Let me restate my question in a different format:

Other candidates on here report that they have a 4.0 unweighted GPA, which I understand to mean that they have had As (90-100) on all their semester grades throughout all 4 years of high school. In other words, a 4.0 = 90.

However, at my school, to have an unweighted 4.0 requires that the student have a 100 in all classes for all 4 years. In other words, a 4.0 = 100.

Since my GPA is being reported on the latter scale, but is being compared against other students on the former scale, it looks relatively lower than it really is.

Additionally, I know USAFA has not reconfigured it because it is the same as the GPA reported by my school and listed on my HS transcript.
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You are making way too many Assumptions. Let me say it one more time. Your school profile will dictate how your gpa is decided. You "ASSUME" that because a person says they have a 4.0gpa unweighted, that it means/covers a 90-100% on tests. That's not necessarily true. Some schools have an "A" starting at 93; some 95. Some actually have a 7.0 scale unweighted. This is where your school profile comes into play. The academy will use your school profile to determine "Percentage". This way they can compare 2 different schools. Numbers might be different, but percentages should come out about the same.

FWIW: If you think all these schools are confusing, wait until you're a cadet and see how they determine your GPA. :biggrin:
 
Adding to Pima's post. Something else a lot of applicants don't understand. Just because you school grades/ranks differently, doesn't mean your school is automatically better. Also; the gpa that is posted on your application by the academy isn't the actual "Academic Score" you have. That's just something written on your application. Your "File" has your REAL ACADEMIC SCORE. This is the combination of gpa, class difficulty variable, class availability variable, class rank, SAT, ACT, etc... I'm going to make up a number here and say that the maximum score is like 500. Your score might be a 345. Maybe it's a 425. Maybe you have a 32ACT, 1500SAT, 4.0gpa in all IB/AP classes taking the most difficult and you're ranked #1, and your academic score is 500. The scoring is a lot more complicated that you might believe.

It's definitely important to contact admissions if you think there's a major inconsistency between what you see as on your application and what you believe it should be. But as Pima said; don't be shocked to see it change.

Also; while everyone agrees that a 3.9 in AP/IB/Honor classes is BETTER than a 3.9gpa in "regular" classes,,,,, there is a bell curve on this too. What do I mean? Simple. Which is better? 3.9 gpa in REGULAR CLASSES or a 2.9 in all AP/IB/Honors classes? Hate to tell you, but the AP/IB/Honors classes are ONLY BETTER if you do well in them. You aren't going to get more points with a 2.9gpa than a 3.9gpa applicant just because all yours were AP/IB classes and none of there's were. Chances are: the 3.9gpa with NO AP/IB classes isn't going to get a very good academic score either. Unless they didn't have such classes available. But you're definitely not going to get a good score because you took the AP/IB classes if you did crappy in them.
 
I agree with Mike you are assuming too much.

DS's school in NC:
~93 was an A. 4.0

DD's school in VA:
~90 was an A. 4.0 = 100%. 3.6 =90%. CGPA was multiply the actual % in the class by 4.0, than divided by credits taken. Have a 97 your cgpa would be 3.88.

Now the SAs and ROTC scholarship boards are going to come back in using the school profile.

As far as they haven't re-scored you, I am willing to be my beloved Myrtle (my avatar) they have.

It just happens to be using their algorithm your gpa didn't change. It matched up to their system.

DS's did change. It went up 0.25% because they were on a 7 pt scale, a C =84 and a 2.0, you have stated your school is 10 pts. 84 would be a B. 90 would be an A.

Two kids, two yrs apart in age, and 2 different HSs in 2 different states.

FWIW, if you requested the hard copy of your SAT/ACT from college board and had them send it to your colleges look at the bottom. They actually will show a graph of where you fall. Look a little deeper and you will see that the schools on your request list may have already re-worked your cgpa for their admission system.

My kids always had at least 1 school that was the same cgpa, but for some of the others it was higher or lower than the official transcript.

Again, good luck next yr., but every single poster here will tell you plan for Plan B, and this issue will be a big factor in your life.

1. College acceptance
2. AFROTC scholarship
~~~ AFROTC does not talk to AFA when offering scholarship and their selection process is different
~ Best sitting, no superscore
~ National not geographically centric (MOC)

Navigating college applications, including the SA's is a mine field and the more you understand the process the more adept you will be in this process. It isn't just paying 50-75 bucks or filling out a common app. It is the whole package.

Have to love the military, at least they tell you 60% of the score is PAR
 
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