Intentionally Not Getting an EA for AFROTC

C

cadeth

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Joined
Feb 4, 2021
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Some background info:
-I'm currently an AS200 Cadet in FTP year on a Type 7 Scholarship (Tech major).
-I want to fly.
-When I got the scholarship for a tech degree, I was very interested in engineering, but after taking college courses in it I no longer feel like its for me
-~3.2 GPA trending downward. Likely to be in mid to high 2s after next two semesters.
-89 PFA
-Good AFOQT
-Bottom to middle third of FTP class ranking. Current Commander's ranking unknown but likely similar.

I was recently considering my options regarding ROTC and doing some self reflection and research. It occurred to me that if given the chance to do it over again, when I graduated high school, I would have gone to two years of free community college for an associate's and then applied to be an Army Warrant Officer Pilot, and the more I've looked into it, the more that path appeals to me. So I've made it my backup plan that if I don't get an EA for field training (but still meet contract requirements of 2.5 GPA and 75 PFA so I don't have to pay back scholarship money) I'm going to drop out of college since my major doesn't interest me anyway and I don't want to go into debt financing it, and apply for WOCS. This backup plan seems so good to me that it's starting to overshadow my current plan of actually getting an EA. So I've been thinking, what if I intentionally stay towards the bottom of my class in FTP and don't raise my GPA up (which is honestly likely to happen anyway) so that I can be released from my ROTC contract and start talking to an Army recruiter? Is this actually a realistic idea? Is there anything I'm missing? Can someone talk some sense into me?
 
cadetb said:
Some background info:
-I'm currently an AS200 Cadet in FTP year on a Type 7 Scholarship (Tech major).
-I want to fly.
-When I got the scholarship for a tech degree, I was very interested in engineering, but after taking college courses in it I no longer feel like its for me
-~3.2 GPA trending downward. Likely to be in mid to high 2s after next two semesters.
-89 PFA
-Good AFOQT
-Bottom to middle third of FTP class ranking. Current Commander's ranking unknown but likely similar.

I was recently considering my options regarding ROTC and doing some self reflection and research. It occurred to me that if given the chance to do it over again, when I graduated high school, I would have gone to two years of free community college for an associate's and then applied to be an Army Warrant Officer Pilot, and the more I've looked into it, the more that path appeals to me. So I've made it my backup plan that if I don't get an EA for field training (but still meet contract requirements of 2.5 GPA and 75 PFA so I don't have to pay back scholarship money) I'm going to drop out of college since my major doesn't interest me anyway and I don't want to go into debt financing it, and apply for WOCS. This backup plan seems so good to me that it's starting to overshadow my current plan of actually getting an EA. So I've been thinking, what if I intentionally stay towards the bottom of my class in FTP and don't raise my GPA up (which is honestly likely to happen anyway) so that I can be released from my ROTC contract and start talking to an Army recruiter? Is this actually a realistic idea? Is there anything I'm missing? Can someone talk some sense into me?
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Don't you need a degree for OCS?
 
jaglvr said:
Don't you need a degree for OCS?
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WOCS is different from OCS. To my understanding warrant officers only need a high school diploma, though I hear college credits help set candidates apart. I'm still not super familiar with it, as the Air Force doesn't have warrant officers and I've only ever been involved with Air Force programs.
 
Have you talked to a WOCS recruiter yet? I wouldn’t do anything until you know you know where you would stand with that program. There are times that program can be extremely competitive.
 
NavyHoops said:
Have you talked to a WOCS recruiter yet? I wouldn’t do anything until you know you know where you would stand with that program. There are times that program can be extremely competitive.
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Not yet but I intend to soon. This idea is still in its infancy. I still have all of next semester that I'm going to be doing FTP anyway though, so I should have time to get in touch and get a good feel for what my chances are. I'm pretty confident I'll be a pretty competitive applicant though.
 
I don't know you and I will probably come off as harsh, but I do find your post concerning. You are saying that you accept failure (basically saying that you are OK with your GPA going down over the next two semester, instead of coming up with a plan to maintain or increase it), and that you sandbag when you don't get what you want (purposely doing poor in AFROTC in order to get let go without having to payback for your scholarship). Those are not qualities that the Army is looking for in Warrant Officer Candidates, or traits that anyone in the military should have as it makes you a weak link and not dependable. The military is a team sport, and we need leaders that can do the hard right over the easy wrong. I understand that you are young, and that is probably not what you are trying to portray, but you need to reassess on how you plan to meet your goals. The best advice is to do your best in college. You don't want to potentially DQ yourself for other things, because of poor grades. You do not need a college degree for WOCS, but they will still look at your transcripts for the board, as that is a discriminator. Do you want to show a downward trend, or an upward? If you absolutely do not want to be in AFROTC and go to the Summer FTX, then talk to your cadre about your options and advice. Maybe they will want to disenroll you, or maybe they just put you lower on the OML or recommend that you not be selected. Regardless, that is the right thing to do, and mitigates intentional self harm. Trying to game the system usually ends in failure, as most do not understand all the variables in play. Adversity is a test of character, what does your plan say about yours?
 
I wouldn’t be that confident. How many Army CWO pilots have you met? It’s been awhile but I met many over the years. There are even tons of former pilots from other services that transitioned. I met several former Marine Major and Captains that transitioned to being Army CWO Pilots. I had a former Sgt of mine who was highly decorated pursue this path. Took him years, but he eventually made it. As you well know, competition can vary year to year in many of these programs. Maybe it is wide open right now, maybe it’s not. So if it’s not, what do you do? And what makes you think you are competitive? If you don’t earn a field training spot, what makes you think you will be competitive for this program? How are you going to explain this all to a recruiter?
 
There are limited (very very very limited) fix wing slots for the Army. You want to fly a helicopter?

If you just want to fly there are a lot of civilian opportunities or options.

Don't quit on yourself its a bad habit.
 
MohawkArmyROTC said:
I don't know you and I will probably come off as harsh, but I do find your post concerning. You are saying that you accept failure (basically saying that you are OK with your GPA going down over the next two semester, instead of coming up with a plan to maintain or increase it), and that you sandbag when you don't get what you want (purposely doing poor in AFROTC in order to get let go without having to payback for your scholarship). Those are not qualities that the Army is looking for in Warrant Officer Candidates, or traits that anyone in the military should have as it makes you a weak link and not dependable. The military is a team sport, and we need leaders that can do the hard right over the easy wrong. I understand that you are young, and that is probably not what you are trying to portray, but you need to reassess on how you plan to meet your goals. The best advice is to do your best in college. You don't want to potentially DQ yourself for other things, because of poor grades. You do not need a college degree for WOCS, but they will still look at your transcripts for the board, as that is a discriminator. Do you want to show a downward trend, or an upward? If you absolutely do not want to be in AFROTC and go to the Summer FTX, then talk to your cadre about your options and advice. Maybe they will want to disenroll you, or maybe they just put you lower on the OML or recommend that you not be selected. Regardless, that is the right thing to do, and mitigates intentional self harm. Trying to game the system usually ends in failure, as most do not understand all the variables in play. Adversity is a test of character, what does your plan say about yours?
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Firstly, I appreciate your reply and direct criticism. I would like to note that my intention isn't by any means to intentionally make my GPA worse. I'm currently working to improve it, but even with seeking out additional assistance and working with my academic counselor to arrange my schedule in the most advantageous way I'm still struggling to get Cs in certain classes, though I am actively continuing to try to find ways to stop it. But that's why I predict my GPA to trend downwards. Its based more on me being realistic than it is on me accepting defeat. Regarding purposely performing poorly, once again that's not really what I want to do. I'm just trying to find the most efficient way to accomplish my goals and prioritize my responsibilities, as, if achieving my EA isn't essential to me achieving my goal of becoming an officer and a pilot, I can refocus energy that I would normally spend on FTP improving my academic standing or physical health. Also, I never intended to keep my intentions secret, though I didn't think to bring it up to cadre directly. I will mention my thoughts at my next feedback session with my commander and listen to what he has to say. And again, my current intention is not necessarily to get out of ROTC. I still consider it a valid option, but I'm also open to the possibility of alternatives, as I think its important to remain flexible and have backup plans if things don't go the way I initially intended. Now I'm just at a crossroads as to which of my plans is more in line with helping me achieve what I want, so I'm doing research to try to come to a conclusion. Looking back over my initial posting I can see how I came off as over eager to discard my current plan, but I think I was just excited by the fact that I recently found a feasible alternative route to becoming a military pilot.
 
You’re on a scholarship so you have already signed a contract and enlisted into the USAF Inactive reserve, yes? If so and you decide to leave (and assuming you are not involuntary called to enlisted duty in the Air Force per the contract), you’ll be given a discharge from the Air Force reserves and on the paperwork the narrative reason for discharge will most likely be “disenrolled/failure to complete officer accession program”, or something to that effect. You’ll also probably be given a re-entry code that is either a 2 or a 3 which will make it harder to join the military again. I’m not saying all of this is necessarily a bad thing (at one point I strongly considered leaving AFROTC after I contracted), but at the same time it certainly won’t do you any favors if the army finds out about it. And if the army has your transcripts from college and sees that you were in ROTC, you can bet that they’ll start asking questions.
 
You're not the first AFROTC cadet, and won't be the last, who decided in college not to pursue engineering. Reading both of your posts, that strikes me as the root of the dilemma here. That's what I would talk to your cadre about, specifically changing your major. And I wouldn't wait on that; don't tank this entire year over a curriculum that isn't suited for you. IMO, there's no dishonor in taking that approach. Then go from there.
 
@cadetb Good to hear that your head is still in the game. I made that reply mostly to show how your post could be interpreted, and get you to assess your situation. It's a good plan to have multiple options. Consider what @franknd said, and talk to your cadre about switching majors as well. As a scholarship cadet, you will need permission to do so, but if your heart is not into engineering, you won't be successful at it. I started out as an engineering student myself, and RPI taught me that wasn't the correct path for me. So I transferred schools, changed majors, joined Army ROTC, earned a 2yr scholarship and commissioned onto Active Duty. Have you taken the SIFT yet? You should try to take it your Sophomore year, so you have time to retake it if you don't do well on it.
 
cadetb said:
Some background info:
-I'm currently an AS200 Cadet in FTP year on a Type 7 Scholarship (Tech major).
-I want to fly.
-When I got the scholarship for a tech degree, I was very interested in engineering, but after taking college courses in it I no longer feel like its for me
-~3.2 GPA trending downward. Likely to be in mid to high 2s after next two semesters.
-89 PFA
-Good AFOQT
-Bottom to middle third of FTP class ranking. Current Commander's ranking unknown but likely similar.

I was recently considering my options regarding ROTC and doing some self reflection and research. It occurred to me that if given the chance to do it over again, when I graduated high school, I would have gone to two years of free community college for an associate's and then applied to be an Army Warrant Officer Pilot, and the more I've looked into it, the more that path appeals to me. So I've made it my backup plan that if I don't get an EA for field training (but still meet contract requirements of 2.5 GPA and 75 PFA so I don't have to pay back scholarship money) I'm going to drop out of college since my major doesn't interest me anyway and I don't want to go into debt financing it, and apply for WOCS. This backup plan seems so good to me that it's starting to overshadow my current plan of actually getting an EA. So I've been thinking, what if I intentionally stay towards the bottom of my class in FTP and don't raise my GPA up (which is honestly likely to happen anyway) so that I can be released from my ROTC contract and start talking to an Army recruiter? Is this actually a realistic idea? Is there anything I'm missing? Can someone talk some sense into me?
Click to expand...
I don’t know anything, so take it worth a grain of salt. I feel like you’d be better off betting on yourself, getting EA for summer training, then working hard to earn that flight slot. Sometimes you have to prove to yourself that the only way is through, not around

It’s not my life though, and only you can know what’s right for you. If you go the route you plan on, be the best damn CWO pilot the army has
 
Appreciate that the OP is at a crossroads and is considering options, looking at Plan B, C, and has a passion/ desire to fly.
All goodness there.

Appreciate the guidance shared by others - all looking to help.


@cadetb- you, like my DS, also want to be a pilot in the military - I recommend you create your personal digital cockpit and evaluate your dashboard readouts in the following areas:
1. GPA
The path to options is not a lower GPA. Full-stop. Make adjustments to keep your GPA above a 3.2.
2. Major
Changing majors if you are not thriving or interested in your current tech/ engineering path. Discuss options to keep your scholarship or continue on your path without it if you cannot but wish to serve. Explore loan options. Explore community college / a leave of absence from your school.
3. Courseload:
Lower the number of courses you are taking this/ next semester and excel at 12 credits- protect that GPA like it matters - because it does.
4. Summer Options
Evaluate taking summer courses either at community college or your university if taking them at school will help you continue to improve your GPA and keep moving forward. look into asynchronous courses that will allow you to complete your combination of any summer training, an internship, and these courses.
5. Alignment with your cadre. and AROTC recruiters.
Talk with your cadre, mentor. Understand the uphill battle of lower grades seeking a pilot slot. Ask for help. Explain your goals. Measure: Did you do it/ did it help?
6. Academic Advisor
Talk with your academic advisor - insist on help.
7. Tutoring Lab
Utilize the on-campus tutoring lab in your areas where you need help. Measurement: Did you use it until it helped?
8. Talk with your faculty - explain you are struggling, ask for help. If you don't get a topic, be honest - continue to ask for help.
9. College Degree progress: Reconsider your option to dropout of college - decide if you want to be an officer or enlisted. Explore options for community colleges - 22 states allow community colleges to offer 4-year programs. Better to have a degree if possible.
10. Explore OCS too.

I think a theme in responses above is that you appear to be resigned to your GPA dropping and having this not work out, and those of us with a little more experience know by our personal and observational experiences that those who resign/decide to fail often succeed. Manifest somethingorother.

When you fly you'll keep a constant eye on your cockpit - altitude, fuel, airspeed, and to know what else is up on the air around you using flightradar or an alternative, etc. It's time for you to keep an eye on the key areas that will help you. I hope you work it all out - you'll be glad if you do and I hope you can choose your path, not have it chosen for you. Lastly, I do not regret the times I went for it and failed in life - I do regret the times I didn't give it my best and fell short. "Go for it" and you'll look back at this year as the year you turned it all around.

Maybe you won't have a path forward in AFROTC, but you do have options - just play protective ball, have the difficult conversations, and you might just be amazed at how receptive some of those you ask for help are. Keep letting the board know if we can help.

Good luck and hope that helps.
 
All really good stuff above. I just read through all of this. And my first thought, was

Don’t spend so much time/effort/energy on accommodating your “downward trend”. Spend that same time/effort/energy on reorienting your current path towards success.

Nothing wrong with adjusting your current course….it’s admirable and the right way to handle this. Don’t change your course to accommodate defeat. As already discussed, that won’t go unnoticed. At all.

@Herman_Snerd gave a GREAT checklist.
 
Last edited:
cadetb said:
Some background info:
-I'm currently an AS200 Cadet in FTP year on a Type 7 Scholarship (Tech major).
-I want to fly.
-When I got the scholarship for a tech degree, I was very interested in engineering, but after taking college courses in it I no longer feel like its for me
-~3.2 GPA trending downward. Likely to be in mid to high 2s after next two semesters.
-89 PFA
-Good AFOQT
-Bottom to middle third of FTP class ranking. Current Commander's ranking unknown but likely similar.

I was recently considering my options regarding ROTC and doing some self reflection and research. It occurred to me that if given the chance to do it over again, when I graduated high school, I would have gone to two years of free community college for an associate's and then applied to be an Army Warrant Officer Pilot, and the more I've looked into it, the more that path appeals to me. So I've made it my backup plan that if I don't get an EA for field training (but still meet contract requirements of 2.5 GPA and 75 PFA so I don't have to pay back scholarship money) I'm going to drop out of college since my major doesn't interest me anyway and I don't want to go into debt financing it, and apply for WOCS. This backup plan seems so good to me that it's starting to overshadow my current plan of actually getting an EA. So I've been thinking, what if I intentionally stay towards the bottom of my class in FTP and don't raise my GPA up (which is honestly likely to happen anyway) so that I can be released from my ROTC contract and start talking to an Army recruiter? Is this actually a realistic idea? Is there anything I'm missing? Can someone talk some sense into me?
Click to expand...
I recommend doing your best. Meet with your AFROTC leadership and come up with a plan for how you're going to progress toward a degree. There will be WOC applicants that will have a degree. If you do not get selected for field training, then your best bet is to try to finish college.
 
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