Interview Length

[d.mcknight]

Correct.. Congress is looking into it. (what does that tell you?)...... USCGA does not want to be subject to having disinterested, unknowledgeable MOCS having anything to to do with who they can accept into their Academy....For the record, USCGA does NOT want any congressional input.

Here in my district in NY, nominations are given out completely independent of the SA admissions office. Nominations are given by Christmas to candidates who never even started or ever intend to complete an application to the SA they received a nomination to. Fact!

If the system is not fair to one, it is unfair to all..........Sorry to inform all that hundreds if not thousands are screwed ever year across this nation because of this flawed system of requiring a nomination to make an application.

How the heck are they "disinterested" or "unknowledgeable"? You know, MOCs are not necessarily required to nominate candidates. There are some years when some MOCs will decide not to award any nomination. If they were disinterested don't you think they would simply not nominate? Or maybe just draw names out of a hat? The only thing flawed here is your logic.

 

[NYBEAR]

Are you from Wyoming?.....That may explain your inability to comprehend what I am relating to you about how it is handled in NY.
I am telling you that in my district in NY, MOC nominations are given to candidates who never applied or intend to apply to the SA that they are given a nomination for. They may have requested the MOC nom as their 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice, but never completed the SA application, and never completed the application to the SA . Only 1 nomination to any service academy is given here because there is too much interest. A bogus system.


MOC noms are given out by Christmas Eve and the MOC staff does not check with the academy to determine if an application is complete. I know this because I have hand delivered final application material to USCGA, USMMA and WP for candidates AFTER they received their Congressional Nominations.

Your attitude makes it hard for me to take you seriously? Step back listen and learn

 

[d.mcknight]

Are you from Wyoming?.....That may explain your inability to comprehend what I am relating to you about how it is handled in NY.
I am telling you that in my district in NY, MOC nominations are given to candidates who never applied or intend to apply to the SA that they are given a nomination for. They may have requested the MOC nom as their 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice, but never completed the SA application, and never completed the application to the SA . Only 1 nomination to any service academy is given here because there is too much interest. A bogus system.


MOC noms are given out by Christmas Eve and the MOC staff does not check with the academy to determine if an application is complete. I know this because I have hand delivered final application material to USCGA, USMMA and WP for candidates AFTER they received their Congressional Nominations.

Your attitude makes it hard for me to take you seriously? Step back listen and learn

Actually, I'm from California. I'm still missing some logic here....I don't know how it works in New York, but our applications for nominations out here are not simple. Why in the world would somebody go through the entire nomination process if they didn't intend on even applying to the SA? That's stupid.

 

[Christcorp]

.....I am telling you that in my district in NY, MOC nominations are given to candidates who never applied or intend to apply to the SA that they are given a nomination for.
You're telling me that an individual who has NOT applied to the academy, for some reason APPLIED FOR A NOMINATION!!! On all MOC applications, you must state what academy you are applying to. Sorry, not buying it. Sell it to someone else.

They may have requested the MOC nom as their 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice,
How many nominations do you think the average applicant can be eligible for and receive? What do you mean the MOC nom might be their 4th choice?I guess they could have a presidential, VP, 2 senators, ROTC, etc... But again, I'm not buying your excuses.

Only 1 nomination to any service academy is given here because there is too much interest. A bogus system.
There's nothing bogus about that at all. New York has 29 representatives, and the traditional 2 senators. So that means, at the most, 310 individuals can receive a nomination to army, navy, or air force. Now if there are a LOT MORE than 310 individuals applying to a particular academy, and they are all competitive, then there's nothing wrong with the MOC's deciding to give as many people a chance as possible.

The more you post, the less I believe you. Sorry, but you are contradicting yourself, and it is apparent that you will not objectively look at the system, because of the contempt you have for the system. In one breath, you say that there shouldn't be ANY nominations. That the academies should choose from ALL the applications. Then you turn around and complain, because your state has given nominations to 930 individuals instead of 310 individuals with nominations to all three academies. You're contradicting your own argument.

Something else I don't understand, is that you said that nominations are given to individuals who haven't completed their applications yet. And you know this: " I know this because I have hand delivered final application material to USCGA, USMMA and WP for candidates AFTER they received their Congressional Nominations." Please explain yourself. Do you work for the post office and have looked through people's mail? Are you BOTH a MALO for the Army and ALSO the equivalent to the Merchant Marines; and therefor have seen the applications for BOTH these academies. (We won't discuss the Coast Guard, because as you know, they don't do nominations, so it doesn't matter if you "HAND DELIVERED" applications to the coast guard.) So, what is your position or capacity in the application process of 3 different academies, that allows you to hand carry academy applications to New London, CT; AND West Point, New York; AND Great Neck, New York. You must have one important job to be hand carrying applications to these 3 academies.

And while you're at it, can you explain how you know about the other 28 representatives in your state, and when/how their nominations are done and completed. You said that YOUR MOC (You only have 1 representative), gives out nominations to people, to academies, that they haven't applied to. I'll give you that. You know your district representative probably better than I do. But do the other 28 representatives ALSO DO THIS. Do they give out nominations to people who haven't applied? Do they give nominations to individuals who haven't officially applied to the academies. Or is it that you believe that your district is the most important in the country; and therefor if THEY DO SOMETHING, then ALL OTHERS MUST be doing it also???

Sorry, but you are not substantiating ANY of your claims. You have no proof, other than 1 congressional representative. You have no idea about the other 452 representatives in the country; yet you believe the entire system is broken, because your district is the "CHOSEN" district that all others follow. Sorry, still ain't buying it.

Oh, and for what it's worth; I was born and raised in New Jersey. Yes, I currently live in Wyoming. After 21 years in the air force, living/worked in 14 countries, PCS'd 9 times; you tend to wind up in a different place than you were born. But I've been working directly with Air Force academy applicants for the last 6 years, and indirectly for the last 10 years. But living in Wyoming has absolutely nothing to do with you making a blanket statement about the nomination system, based entirely on 1 representative in your district, without any substantiated proof to back you up. I would be willing to even say that your ENTIRE STATE is messed up. That both senators and all 29 representatives are CORRUPT. That they nominate entirely without morals or ethics. Fine. I'll give you the ENTIRE STATE OF NEW YORK. So, tell me now.... Where is your proof that the other 98 senators and 424 representatives in the country, are just as corrupt as New York is?

 

[NavIss58]

Christcorp, if you've followed the NY STATE Senate debockle over the last year you'd too think they were ALL corrupt, what a laughable bunch of people there, but we're not talking about the State level senators.

NYBEAR, if you carry that attitude to your interview for my company (I am a tax paying legal citizen of the US) I wouldn't hire you. Why would I want an employee bad mouthing the rest of the staff? This is not union work and it's not representative of the way things are handled in the NY State Legislature.

Good luck with things.

 

[Pima]

I too have to raise the BS flag about getting a nom to an SA they never applied to. Our DS only asked for one SA, and one alone. Nobody forced the candidate to put down a request for an SA that they didn't want to attend. Our DS applied for all 3 MOCs, and got all 3 for that one SA. There were other candidates that got 1 to ea SA, tallying 3, but they also put down each SA on their request.

NY is a competitive state. I don't see them saying, we like the kid, but he only asked for AFA and that is filled, so let's give him WP. It just doesn't make sense, that a state known to say if you have a nom from another source, please don't apply to me what hand out noms to SAs that the candidate didn't ask for in the 1st place.

Additionally, it is not a 15 minute process to apply for these noms, compared to the 15 minute process to fill out a PCQ. Yes, the application process itself is much much more time consuming, but if by Oct 1 you have yet to start the application, why would you even do the nom process? It again doesn't make sense. Are you saying that you know a lot of kids who make their decision to apply after they get a nom? If so, that says more about the candidate than the process. If you want to be angry over the situation...look to the right and the left at your peers and be mad at them.

2+2 is not equaling 4 under that theory.

 

[scoutpilot]

I have yet to see anything out of NYBEAR on this subject that doesn't smack of bitter, crazy, conspiracy-theorist-at-the-bus-station.

The nom system works. Period. End of story.

 

[Mongo]

I am telling you that in my district in NY, MOC nominations are given to candidates who never applied or intend to apply to the SA that they are given a nomination for. They may have requested the MOC nom as their 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice, but never completed the SA application, and never completed the application to the SA .

There's an old adage about the wisdom to know what one can change and to accept what they cannot. I think that applies here so I won't get too deep into this discussion.

The reason that MOC nominations are due by the end of January and the individual applications are not due until March is for just this reason. Nothing says the application to the SA must be completed prior to the nomination being awarded. Of course, for USNA, the MOC nomination committee has this information available to them and it probably won't bode well in the interview if they have not yet commenced their application or have it substantially completed.

Yes, MOCs, especially in the less competitive districts, sometimes will nominate candidates to SAs to which they did not apply. Some areas are more competitive for one particular SA than another. Many MOCs do not have applications for the MMA. Worthy candidates whose chance of the more popular SA is minimal, might receive a phone call and be asked if they are interested in another SA where the MOC might be more likely to have an available nomination. In my area, both the MMA and the AFA are often presented by the MOC staff as an option.

 

[NYBEAR]

I am a High School coach who has hand delivered applications to New London Ct, Highland Falls NY and King's Point NY for players who waited to the last minute to complete applications. In every case, the reason for the delay is that they did not request a nomination or listed the particular SA as 3rd or 4th and really did not have an interest until I prodded them. I have been to all 3 SA several times in the last week of February over the last 2 decades with applications in hand.

Why don't you read the other thread under this topic where other people are saying that it happens all the time. Nominations are given several months before the application deadlines. In competitive districts such as mine in NY, MOCs want t to give as many people as possible a piece of the pie, ie- nominations to SAs that they really have no interest in unless a coach prods them to complete the application.

When Sen Hilary Clinton was replaced by Sen Kirsten Gillabrand here in NY last year, Sen Gillabrand new transition team knew nothing about the MOC nom process. Several kids that I am aware of who sent applications (to Washington DC no less because they had no NY office at the time) for a noimination never even recieved an acknowledgement that their application was recieved never mind an interview. That is just plain wrong in my opinion.

Here in my district a candidate is required to rank the SA nomination requests 1-4 or gamble on listing only 1(you still may receive a nom t o a SA that you did not request however) This in itself causes a dilemma to most from my experience. Should you put all your eggs in one basket and only request your top choice? What if you do not get it. Or should you rank all 4 Service Academies and hope you get your top choice but give the interview panel room to give you choice 3 or 4 and end up scrambling to get an application done?

My whole point is that the system requiring a nomination to be considered for appointment to a Service Academy is simply not fair to many, confusing and unjust many times. I HAVE SEEN it.

Why anyone would assume that the 5 Service Academies could not take all triple qualified applications and come up with a balanced incoming class with respect to geographic diversity , other diversity etc, etc , is beyond my comprehension.

I know I can't change but I am telling it like it is because that is the way I am.

 

[omnipsi]

But NYBEAR, I think a main point that many users are making here is that going through the MOC nomination process takes a lot of time and effort. Why would some candidates from your area go through all that nomination paperwork and just neglect the actual academy application process?

 

[Mongo]

I am a High School coach who has hand delivered applications to New London Ct, Highland Falls NY and King's Point NY for players who waited to the last minute to complete applications.

This is the second time you have mentioned CGA in context with nominations. USCGA does not have congressional nominations. It discredits your credability.

 

[Pima]

When Sen Hilary Clinton was replaced by Sen Kirsten Gillabrand here in NY last year, Sen Gillabrand new transition team knew nothing about the MOC nom process.

As I stated before every SA has an actual office that deals with the charges for that branch at the Pentagon. They brief the MOC's in July. Clinton's office was briefed. Additionally MOCs do not traditionally sit on the board. There is a committee and they sign off on what the committee reccommends. Candidates should not expect to meet the MOC at the interview. Some MOC's will host private receptions for their nom slate, for our DS only 1 MOC did that, and that is when the MOC will be in attendance to do the meet and greet. I have to say on a personal note, Elizabeth Dole was incredibly gracious and spent 5-10 minutes with each candidate personally. For some that meant more than the nom.

Also, it is not common at all for MOC's to acknowledge receipt of the packet. If the candidate wants acknowledgement they need to pick up the phone and call them. For some states they could have over 500-700 nom requests in total. It is not their job to send out notices that they received the material for the noms. Their job is to review the candidates. This is done in a very short time period.

Here in my district a candidate is required to rank the SA nomination requests 1-4 or gamble on listing only 1(you still may receive a nom t o a SA that you did not request however) This in itself causes a dilemma to most from my experience. Should you put all your eggs in one basket and only request your top choice? What if you do not get it. Or should you rank all 4 Service Academies and hope you get your top choice but give the interview panel room to give you choice 3 or 4 and end up scrambling to get an application done

This is a no brainer to me. If you don't want to serve in the AF than don't put your name in the basket for that nom. That would be akin to applying to a college for a major you don't want. There are candidates who just want the chance for an SA education, thus, they will be happy with any of them. However, if it is only 1 SA alone, this is not like trading baseball cards...I'll give you my SA slot for your SA slot.

My whole point is that the system requiring a nomination to be considered for appointment to a Service Academy is simply not fair to many, confusing and unjust many times. I HAVE SEEN it.

It may appear to be confusing, unfair and unjust, but when you step away from it and see the bigger picture you will see that it is more fair. This is a national school that taxpayers pay for at a high cost. How fair would it be if you are from Arkansas, where it is on the bottom of the barrel from an educational stance nationally compared to NJ, NY, VA, CA, where their public schools consistently rank in the top 100 in the nation? Should taxpayers from AR carry the bill when nobody from their state gets in due to PAR weighting 60%?(Nobody flame me if you are from AR, just saying from a national perspective of ranking ~~~USNWR, Time, Newsweek, etc),

It takes about a full yr to just wrap your head around the system, with time you start to see from the specifics of why the current system is the best.

I have been to all 3 SA several times in the last week of February over the last 2 decades with applications in hand.

Can I ask, are you actually doing this from a coach's standpoint? If you are, doesn't that mean you are trying to assist them to get in from a recruited athlete position? How is that fair? Are you comparing this system to more like ND or UCLA where they recruit any and all athletes with no state residency issue? If you are to me, your candidates should kiss your feet because many candidates with a nom, don't have that luxury of getting the coach to slide them in due to athletics. Remember and realize almost every candidate has a varsity letter in at least 1 sport, yet in my 3 yrs here, I have yet to read one poster on this board that said their coach drove hundreds of miles roundtrip to hand carry their application to one SA let alone 3 SAs.

I know for at least the AF, they are assigned ALO's, the job you are doing would be the ALO's job, not the coach. (prodding).

FWIW, I find that the most troubling fact. It seems you are pushing them to attend an SA. This is their life and this will be at least 9 yrs of their life, where war is an issue. It is not a coach/teacher/counselor issue. It is a private family matter. I would not want an educator to sway my child either way, because, no offense, it is not your child, it will not be your family living with the separation and fear for almost a decade. You may get them in, but once you do, you are out of the picture. It is the cadet and family that lives 365/24/7 with the decision. Maybe the kid didn't complete it because he/she decided that they weren't jumping for joy regarding this route and you had to hand carry it because of your prodding.

Most parents on this board step back and do not prod their kids. I think your intentions are great, but if the kids drop the ball, then it is their life. As a parent, and someone who worked for yrs in the educational field, may I suggest that instead of prodding the child, you contact the parent and talk to them about their child? Maybe they can give you insight into why they dropped the ball. Maybe they will be happy for the prodding. Maybe they will be upset that you prodded their child into this situation.

For me I would be madder than a banshee if you prodded my kid into applying to multiple SAs without 1st discussing your intentions with me or his father. I think after 18 yrs of raising a child, I should not be usurped by a coach/teacher/counselor who has known them for a 2-3 yrs at best. Not saying that you do this, just saying how it can be perceived on boards like this with your posts that you could be crossing a parental line.

I give you credit if you are a very involved coach/teacher/counselor, but just curious if it is for every kid in your school, or just those that you coach. I am not saying it is one way or another, just saying if it is only for particular students than your view may be skewed. I can also understand as a coach that you know many of these cadets due to the CFA, however, than it goes back to the original question of this kid goes as far as to take the CFA, and apply for a nom, but not complete anything else?

 

[Luigi59]

It may appear to be confusing, unfair and unjust, but when you step away from it and see the bigger picture you will see that it is more fair. This is a national school that taxpayers pay for at a high cost. How fair would it be if you are from Arkansas, where it is on the bottom of the barrel from an educational stance nationally compared to NJ, NY, VA, CA, where their public schools consistently rank in the top 100 in the nation? Should taxpayers from AR carry the bill when nobody from their state gets in due to PAR weighting 60%?

That's actually a pretty weak argument (proportional representation based on taxes) for using nominations.

Compare your analogy to that of two senior citizens who live in Bethesda paying $8,000 a year in real estate taxes that go to the local school systems, despite their having no children of school age. Too bad, right?

Or the federal taxes that are paid to support any government program that you do not get to participate in. I would love to go to the Moon, but even though I pay taxes that are used to fund NASA, I don't get to go.

What about the fact that over 80% of all US Govt workers live in the DC area, yet their salaries are paid by all of the citizens of the USA from Alaska to Hawaii? Should taxpayers from AR carry the bill for those salaries when nobody from their state gets a proportional share of the jobs from the taxes they pay?

---------------

The nomination system is not going to go away, and indeed the USCGA will probably be forced (economically by Congressional funding) to go that way in the future to satisfy some Congressman with the power to force it, for whatever reasons he believes to be vital.

However, no one can factually or (logically) conclude that the incoming classes under that system will be stronger/better/smarter than if the USCGA Admissions were allowed to continue to pick the best from a nationwide merit based competition among candidates. Seriously, if the 40th ranked candidate from California is far-and-away better qualified (scholastically, medically, physically) than any of the candidates from Nebraska, then why not take the best-of-the-best rather than compromise for the sake of geography?

 

[Pima]

Compare your analogy to that of two senior citizens who live in Bethesda paying $8,000 a year in real estate taxes that go to the local school systems, despite their having no children of school age. Too bad, right?

Actually as someone who worked as Realtor I would disagree. Good school systems keep housing prices up. It is to the best interest of any homeowner to want their taxes to go the school system, since that will drive housing prices higher than if it was poor quality school system. Additionally, if you play the game that they are now retired, but lived there for the past 30 yrs, and had kids that went through the system, born 3-4 yrs apart they also captured the benefit of those yrs and it is payback time.


Additionally, the way RE taxes work is the higher payers are business taxes, thus, if people are not buying into that area, than, companies will not move in or remain, if they leave that tax loss will have to be spread among homeowners, and there is always a point where people will say the taxes are too high and leave, thus the pool shrinks even more. By having good school systems even as a homeowner with no children, they protect their biggest asset.

Also, RE taxes only spend a portion on schools, so if you really wanted to drive home the point, it would have been a better illustration to say the homeowner in Bethesda that has school aged children, it is in their best interest not to fund the senior citizen center or the local library since every school has a library. However, again, I would come back and say that not every one fits that category either, and what the system intention was to create a system for all of their residents in a fair and equitable manner while maintaining home prices.

Or the federal taxes that are paid to support any government program that you do not get to participate in. I would love to go to the Moon, but even though I pay taxes that are used to fund NASA, I don't get to go.

True, however, where did ABS brakes start? They started in NASA. Did you not gain something from your car having ABS compared to cars in 1959? Somebody had to be the guinea pig to try it out! Look at many of the missions, they are used for scientific purposes, you actually did get something out of it from the fact that science has evolved. It may not be direct gain like going to the moon, but your life was impacted. Just like millions of Americans do not get the direct impact of SAs, but their lives due to leadership are impacted.

What about the fact that over 80% of all US Govt workers live in the DC area, yet their salaries are paid by all of the citizens of the USA from Alaska to Hawaii? Should taxpayers from AR carry the bill for those salaries when nobody from their state gets a proportional share of the jobs from the taxes they pay?

Yes, but are you saying that AR doesn't utilize the IRS? Those are govt workers. They may hate the IRS, but they are govt workers representing every citizen in the US. NTSB is another example, so if a plane goes down in AK, are you implying that they don't go to AK to investigate the accident? Of course they do, it is just that the govt has decided to place their hq in DC. How about the Cross issue in CA that went to the Supreme court? You do realize that SCOTUS is more than just justices, right? That means there are govt workers working for the nation, not just one state. How about the Pentagon, where the bulk work, you do realize they work hand and hand with Lockheed, Grumman, Raytheon, Rand, etc, who have companies located across the country? Lockheed has decided to place their HQ in another state, but the govt needs employees that are not affiliated with either the military or the company. JIC you don't know, many military members who go gov or contractors can not traditionally double dip for propriety reasons...in other words, if you are on terminal leave, they may require you to get a no-conflict letter. Bullet was required to sit on the side lines before he entered this world due to just the appearance of conflict issues.

Try again, the system was created to represent the entire country. If we all recognize the way PAR works, and that the SA's review the rigor of the school along with curriculum for 60% of the WCS, you would see certain areas having more cadets than others. Thomas Jefferson HS (TJ) is the number 1 public hs(it is a magnet for NoVA) in the nation, it ranks so high that they now have placed it in the private rankings, and it is still no. 1 is located in VA, you could load up with tons of kids just from that 1 school. Fairfax county, which is filled with a ton of military (5-9 miles from the Pentagon) has the median score for the top hs of 1360. That is the median. The majority of their schools are on the top 100 list in the nation. NoVA is a very competitive area, as competitive as NY if not more. Yet, NY does not have the number 1 hs in the nation, they do! I could go down the list of school rankings, and in the end what you would find if they remove the MOC would be a high percentage of kids getting in from nationally ranked high schools. I lived in ID, NM, AK, KS, NC and overseas, plus born and raised in NJ, I would say if my kid was coming from AK, KS, and ID under that system of going nationally, they would not get an apptmt because they couldn't beat out kids on PAR from states like, VA, NY, NJ. CA, CO and TX where they have the tax base to invest in the school system.

FWIW, Fairfax County has a bigger budget than the lowest 8 states in the US. That is just the county. Try competing academically from a system like that!

To me this is kind of like baseball and their salary cap...why are the Yankees so good because they can afford to pay top dollar.

 

[Luigi59]

Try again, the system was created to represent the entire country.

Obviously.

But we are not disputing why it was created (representing the entire country) we are disputing whether or not "representing the entire country" is the best system for picking the strongest most qualified class.

Especially when the even #40th best candidate from State A far exceeds the best 10 candidates from State B - there is no logic in denying the best candidates appointments based on goegraphy. Or taxes.

Using your analogy again:

but are you saying that AR doesn't utilize the IRS? Those are govt workers. They may hate the IRS, but they are govt workers representing every citizen in the US. NTSB is another example, so if a plane goes down in AK, are you implying that they don't go to AK to investigate the accident? Of course they do,

Do the people of Oregon benefit from the Coast Guard even if they have no one from Oregon attending the academy?

There are many other (better) reasons for using nominations.

The "because they pay taxes they deserve a seat" argument is weak.

 

[scoutpilot]

The debate at hand hinges on, I believe, the definition of "strongest class."

Some folks, like NYBEAR, would not be bothered if the admissions worked like Harvard or Yale. Perhaps, if we did away with nominations, we'd end up with a "smarter" class across the board (I honestly don't think we would, because those top-flight applicants get nominations as it stands). But even so, we might have a few more Rhodes scholars. But we'd also have classes that are overwhelmingly composed of suburban WASPs and "Asian" (I hate that imprecise term) from New Jersey, PA, and NY.

But, hey, as long as they're "smarter," and have better college-bound resumes, right? Who cares if a kid from small-town Idaho doesn't get in because his parents couldn't send him to Philips Exeter? "Not I," said the suburban East Coast WASP contingent. "We got ours!"

There are many good arguments for a nominations system. We are not producing a haute couture workforce for Wall Street. We are producing military leaders. We don't run an admissions process like a typical college because we're not looking for the typical college kid.

 

[Pima]

Do the people of Oregon benefit from the Coast Guard even if they have no one from Oregon attending the academy?

Maybe you should have used Iowa! Oregon def benefits since they are a coast state.

The "because they pay taxes they deserve a seat" argument is weak.

I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree.

I have been around the track too many times, and I know there is no way I would ever convince or sway you or others to cross over to the other side.

I will say that for me, Luigi brings more credibility to the argument because I know his DS turned down an apptmt at one of the big 3 to go to CGA. Thus, when it comes to the issue, as a parent he has experienced both sides of the fence. Not saying I agree with his position, but at least it comes from a two sided view, which few of us have experienced.

Scout,

You make a strong argument which I agree with. Send your kid to Pennington or Peddy in NJ and they will be on varsity athletics and have a great curriculum over the kid from the wrong side of the tracks who went public.

My concern is the issue of coaches being actively involved, but distraught that their kid didn't get the nom. I am cynical and known here as Janie Raincloud. I wonder if people don't understand that the MOC's goal is not getting in a gifted athlete with lower grades to win a BCS bowl, but the kid who wants to serve in the military as an officer.

No offense NYBEAR, but it seems by stating you are a coach and prodding, it is as if you are seeing SAs like universities that recruit for athletics and not for military leaders. My hair on my neck goes up when you say I am a COACH who has hand delivered for 20 yrs to SAs their apps. That to me seems more like recruiting athletes and not officers.

I can be wrong and you can serve me the biggest plate of crow to eat, but that is how it reads to me.

I hope you can take the time to explain why you threw in the COACH issue into the equation or why you drive to these SA's, and jump over the MALO/ALO/BGO in this process.

 

[NYBEAR]

Amazing to me how people go on the attack without reading previous posts. I have one fellow telling me my "credibility has been discredited" (whatever that means), because I said that I hand delivered an application for a kid I coached, to New London CT. I know the USCGA does not require congressional nominations but this kid I am talking about did not receive a nomination to the only SA that he did complete an application for and really wanted to serve? This anecdotal story is 6 years old already by the way.

I never prod anyone to do something they do not desire. I have prodded 17/18 year olds, with stellar credentials to get the paper work done and a few times had to hand deliver the final paperwork.

I have said all along that the Coast Guard has it RIGHT. I have said all along that the other 4 service academies would do well to follow the lead of the Coast Guard Academy?

USCGA is the only service academy that has the ability to bring in the most deserving class of recruits. Deserving of course means geographic, gender, ethnic minority, underrepresented, tough situation overcome etc, etc........ The other 4 academies are hog- tied by the congressional nomination process with respect to who CAN be offered an appointment. So many candidates are screwed by this archaic, bogus, unjust system every year in my opinion.

I am just telling it like it is because that is what I always do......

 

[Christcorp]

Your argument would have some credence if not for the following:

Valedictorian/Salutatorian. 9%
President/Vice President of Class or Student Body. . . .15%
Top 10% of High School Class. 51%
Athletic Letter Award. 83%
Boys/Girls State or Nation. 12%
National Honor Society. 65%
Boy/Girl Scouting (Includes Eagle Scouts). 28%

This is just a small part of the profile for an average Air Force Academy class. So, find me the cadets/plebes who are currently attending one of the academies who DOES NOT DESERVE to be there; along with their substandard resume; and I'll take your argument seriously.

Until then, I maintain confidence that the overwhelming majority of representatives and senators are nominating those they believe to be the most deserving. I also support and defend the state's right to be equally represented as best as possible, while maintaining the best military in the world. As long as we have representative and/or senator nominations from each state/district in the country, then I have confidence that each and every state is being represented as best as possible. It is the STATE'S RIGHT!!!! NOT the academy's. The Federal government, including the academies and military, WORK FOR THE STATES!!! And For the PEOPLE!!! That is the way our founding fathers designed it, and the way it should be. It is NOT the federal government's job or right, to tell the states how things are to be.

Oh, and while you're at it, maybe you should let those students at your school, fill out and submit their applications by themselves; instead of letting a high school coach do it for them. The first stage of becoming a cadet and military officer is to learn leadership and becoming responsible for one's own actions. Not relying on someone else to do it for them.

 

[d.mcknight]

Echoing CC's part about responsibility....if they can't get an application in on time by themselves, I'm sorry but they don't deserve the nomination or appointment. You talk about the nomination process being unfair....how about the applicants who finished their files during the summer who got denied an appointment while some kid who's coach did the last minute work for him got in? That is complete bogus.

And on the whole argument about the #40 in California.....could someone elaborate? Do you mean #40 in California alone, or #40 candidate in the nation?