Investigation for Disenrollment process...

afrotccadetmom

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Can anyone give me information on how the investigation for disenrollment process works? Does the recommendation come from cadre or is it automatically done after not meeting certain requirements? My dd is having one done for missing to many PT sessions. She went over the limit by one. She is not on scholarship but contracted with a rated position with one semester left. She does take full responsibility but has had a very difficult semester. Is this normal? How long does it take to find out? any advice ....
 
To the best of my understanding the cadre is required to submit the dis-enrollment paperwork to HQ AFROTC when a cadet fails to meet the requirements set forth by HQ AFROTC to maintain their cadet status. As a CoC they have to do it because it is also their career on the line. They must follow the regs.

I believe, but will not swear that the CoC can go to bat for the cadet against dis-enrollment.
~ My guess is it might be like going up for promotion and a PRF. For promotions there are 3 boxes that the wing king/queen check. Do Not Promote, Promote, Definitely Promote. In her case it would be something like dis-enroll, do not dis-enroll, definitely do not dis-enroll. This is just a guess. If it is like the PRF, there will be a section for the CoC to comment on regarding the cadet. If it is left blank and even if they check do not dis-enroll, HQ AFROTC, if like ADAF, is basically being told by the CoC you choose, I am impartial to the final decision made. If the comments are filled, they are basically going to bat for them.

Again, this is just my assumption from the years I have been here and seeing what AFROTC cadets that were up for dis-enrollment have experienced and posted here.

I am shocked that if this is her 1st time not meeting the requirements that they are immediately placing her up for dis-enrollment because she missed 1 too many PTs. Did she pass her PFA? Is she above weight limits? Is she meeting her gpa requirements? Medical? IOWS, is there something else that takes her from counseling to dis-enrollment.

The upshot is she has a rated slot, so that gives her an edge. However, downshot is that they do have alternates waiting to get a rated slot.

I hope for her and your family that it works out. Be prepared it can take more than a month to find out the results. If she is not disenrolled she really needs to take this to heart.

I get hard semesters, but when it comes to the rated world, be it UPT, UNT or RPA, they will be wishing to be back at college with those hard semesters because that will feel like kindergarten compared to the pressure they are feeling in those courses. She will also be required to do at least one PFA while at rated schools. They can and will wash students back if they fail,
~ One of our close friends that had a DS at UNT was washed back due to failing the run time. IMPO, I can see failing a PFA once at a rated school. These students basically wake up at 5:30 to start their day by 7 a.m. at the squadron. They do academics, sims, and flying. They get back to their home at 5 p.m., make dinner and than study or chair fly until 10-11 at night. They typically only have off Sat. By noon on Sunday they are back at hitting the books and chair flying for Monday's schedule. Hard to carve out the time to prepare for the PFA unless you are truly dedicated to physical work outs.

I do not know what rated position she has been selected for, but if it is pilot, Raimius (poster here) has a great blog about life at UPT. It is the blue tag line (link) under his signature. You have to go a few pages in to when he discusses life at UPT. It is brutally honest, and true to the word of what they will endure at UPT. It is a good read not only for a cadet with a rated slot to prepare them, but also the parents too.
~ There is a running joke among UPT parents regarding only talking to them for 10 mins a week and usually it was Sat or Sun. The joke was you never wanted a phone call from them during the week. That call was either going to be very good or very bad. IOWS, they got an excellent on a check ride/sim or they busted it and were going up for an 88 flight. You steeled yourself when you saw their number come up on caller ID.

Best thoughts and hopes.
 
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To the best of my understanding the cadre is required to submit the dis-enrollment paperwork to HQ AFROTC when a cadet fails to meet the requirements set forth by HQ AFROTC to maintain their cadet status. As a CoC they have to do it because it is also their career on the line. They must follow the regs.

I believe, but will not swear that the CoC can go to bat for the cadet against dis-enrollment.
~ My guess is it might be like going up for promotion and a PRF. For promotions there are 3 boxes that the wing king/queen check. Do Not Promote, Promote, Definitely Promote. In her case it would be something like dis-enroll, do not dis-enroll, definitely do not dis-enroll. This is just a guess. If it is like the PRF, there will be a section for the CoC to comment on regarding the cadet. If it is left blank and even if they check do not dis-enroll, HQ AFROTC, if like ADAF, is basically being told by the CoC you choose, I am impartial to the final decision made. If the comments are filled, they are basically going to bat for them.

Again, this is just my assumption from the years I have been here and seeing what AFROTC cadets that were up for dis-enrollment have experienced and posted here.

I am shocked that if this is her 1st time not meeting the requirements that they are immediately placing her up for dis-enrollment because she missed 1 too many PTs. Did she pass her PFA? Is she above weight limits? Is she meeting her gpa requirements? Medical? IOWS, is there something else that takes her from counseling to dis-enrollment.

The upshot is she has a rated slot, so that gives her an edge. However, downshot is that they do have alternates waiting to get a rated slot.

I hope for her and your family that it works out. Be prepared it can take more than a month to find out the results. If she is not disenrolled she really needs to take this to heart.

I get hard semesters, but when it comes to the rated world, be it UPT, UNT or RPA, they will be wishing to be back at college with those hard semesters because that will feel like kindergarten compared to the pressure they are feeling in those courses. She will also be required to do at least one PFA while at rated schools. They can and will wash students back if they fail,
~ One of our close friends that had a DS at UNT was washed back due to failing the run time. IMPO, I can see failing a PFA once at a rated school. These students basically wake up at 5:30 to start their day by 7 a.m. at the squadron. They do academics, sims, and flying. They get back to their home at 5 p.m., make dinner and than study or chair fly until 10-11 at night. They typically only have off Sat. By noon on Sunday they are back at hitting the books and chair flying for Monday's schedule. Hard to carve out the time to prepare for the PFA unless you are truly dedicated to physical work outs.

I do not know what rated position she has been selected for, but if it is pilot, Raimius (poster here) has a great blog about life at UPT. It is the blue tag line (link) under his signature. You have to go a few pages in to when he discusses life at UPT. It is brutally honest, and true to the word of what they will endure at UPT. It is a good read not only for a cadet with a rated slot to prepare them, but also the parents too.
~ There is a running joke among UPT parents regarding only talking to them for 10 mins a week and usually it was Sat or Sun. The joke was you never wanted a phone call from them during the week. That call was either going to be very good or very bad. IOWS, they got an excellent on a check ride/sim or they busted it and were going up for an 88 flight. You steeled yourself when you saw their number come up on caller ID.

Best thoughts and hopes.

@Pima It's been a while since I've been on and sorry for never replying. I appreciate your thorough reply. I just wanted to give an update. My DD did go up for dis-enrollment as stated and she did get dis-enrolled during her final semester. She was not ordered to pay anything back but instead ordered to 2 years AD which is what she said she wanted. She would have only owed $7,200.00. I asked lots of questions and she basically didn't want to talk much after it all happened. Her moral was down after this and in her final semester (18 credits) she did not do her best and didn't pass a course and ended up taking a summer class and has since completed college. Since she hadn't heard from AFPC yet, she called and they explained she could go see a recruiter to speed things up. So we did. Still waiting to see what is next. The recruiters have never dealt with a case like this in their office. Since getting paperwork together, I've had the chance to see what the COC wrote. She was dis-enrolled for not meeting mandatory attendance requirements. She missed one too many PT sessions. It was explained to her that it was black and white and that's the rule and she broke it so basically dis-enrolled. I saw on her paperwork where she marked that she waived her right to an investigation. She said because she was owning what she did by missing the PT session. As a parent, it's just difficult to accept that she didn't push back harder especially after I hear of stories upon stories of people doing illegal things and still not getting dis-enrolled but what can I say. I am happy she has graduated college and now onto the next step which we do not know what that step will be. If anyone has any information on the process after being dis-enrolled and then required to AD please help me out. Will she have to do basic training even though she's completed field training? Will she have to medical again even though she's passed all dodmerb/pilot physicals at Wright AFB? She's gone through the security clearance as well. Hopefully, she will be able to file for a waiver to go to OTS after doing a couple years enlistment. She's learned a lot of lessons these past few years and hopefully this will help her continue to grow as a person and as an Airman.
 
@Pima It's been a while since I've been on and sorry for never replying. I appreciate your thorough reply. I just wanted to give an update. My DD did go up for dis-enrollment as stated and she did get dis-enrolled during her final semester. She was not ordered to pay anything back but instead ordered to 2 years AD which is what she said she wanted. She would have only owed $7,200.00. I asked lots of questions and she basically didn't want to talk much after it all happened. Her moral was down after this and in her final semester (18 credits) she did not do her best and didn't pass a course and ended up taking a summer class and has since completed college. Since she hadn't heard from AFPC yet, she called and they explained she could go see a recruiter to speed things up. So we did. Still waiting to see what is next. The recruiters have never dealt with a case like this in their office. Since getting paperwork together, I've had the chance to see what the COC wrote. She was dis-enrolled for not meeting mandatory attendance requirements. She missed one too many PT sessions. It was explained to her that it was black and white and that's the rule and she broke it so basically dis-enrolled. I saw on her paperwork where she marked that she waived her right to an investigation. She said because she was owning what she did by missing the PT session. As a parent, it's just difficult to accept that she didn't push back harder especially after I hear of stories upon stories of people doing illegal things and still not getting dis-enrolled but what can I say. I am happy she has graduated college and now onto the next step which we do not know what that step will be. If anyone has any information on the process after being dis-enrolled and then required to AD please help me out. Will she have to do basic training even though she's completed field training? Will she have to medical again even though she's passed all dodmerb/pilot physicals at Wright AFB? She's gone through the security clearance as well. Hopefully, she will be able to file for a waiver to go to OTS after doing a couple years enlistment. She's learned a lot of lessons these past few years and hopefully this will help her continue to grow as a person and as an Airman.

I can answer a few of these questions, as a current USAF officer.

1. Yes, she will attend Basic Training and Technical Training, probably pretty soon. She should be heading to an AF recruiter soon to visit MEPS and sign up for an AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code). My advice would be to pick one that offers an enlistment bonus-- there are quite a few lucrative bonuses out there. Fortunately, there are many very interesting enlisted career options, including opportunities to be part of aircrew (loadmaster, flight engineer, raven, flying crew chief, airborne linguist, etc.)

2. She will process her medical at MEPS-- this is built into the process and is no big deal. If she passed it for ROTC and nothing has changed, then she will be ok.

3. Already having passed her security clearance will speed things up considerably. She will not have to reaccomplish this.

4. She should receive E-3 straight out of the gate, given her college completion. Ensure this is on her enlistment contract.

5. She will be able to pursue her masters degree fairly easily at no cost, given that she will be able to access 100% tuition assistance while enlisted. This is a big plus.

6. Provided she was not marked down too heavily on her disenrollment, she should be able to apply for OTS in a few years if she so desires. She will require a waiver, but as long as she has several years of excellent service (shouldn't be too hard for someone with ROTC and FT experience), it likely won't be an issue.

7. If she completes at least 4 years' enlisted service, she will be eligible for increased pay as a prior-enlisted officer once she completes OTS.

8. If she still wants to eventually pursue a rated position, then I suggest looking at the following career fields:
  1. Loadmaster,
  2. Aircraft Maintenance (especially Aerospace Maintenance Technician-- aka "crew chief"),
  3. Airborne linguist,
  4. In-flight refueling specialist (aka "boom operator"),
  5. Airborne ISR operator,
  6. Flight attendant

All of those will help her generate relevant experience, and/or allow her to knock out some of the common requirements (like SERE, aircraft systems knowledge, etc.)

In summary, all is not lost. Plenty of enlisted airmen have college degrees and/or prior ROTC experience. Being an enlisted Airman is a great way to earn cash, build experience and maturity, and figure out what one wants to do long-term. Encourage her to network as much as possible, ace the PT test every year, volunteer for every extra duty she can, and jump on every overseas tour she can. If she wants to be an officer after a few years, she still has that option and her time spent as an enlisted member will only make her a stronger officer.

Plenty of reasons for optimism. :) Good luck to your daughter!
 
One additional piece of advice from personal experience-- I suggest your daughter not mention her ROTC experience while at BMT. She should not shy away from using her relevant experience to help lead her peers, but advertising failure (especially officer training failure) will only bring her additional scrutiny-- both from her flight mates and her training instructors.

Keep quiet about the ROTC experience, but instead use that experience to shine in BMT. Given that she has already been through a similar experience at FT, she should easily excel in BMT and walk away with Honor Graduate-- something that will help her waiver package down the road. The same goes for her Technical Training-- that degree and previous experience should help her earn Distinguished Graduate-- again something that will help justify a second crack at commissioning.
 
One additional piece of advice from personal experience-- I suggest your daughter not mention her ROTC experience while at BMT. She should not shy away from using her relevant experience to help lead her peers, but advertising failure (especially officer training failure) will only bring her additional scrutiny-- both from her flight mates and her training instructors.

Keep quiet about the ROTC experience, but instead use that experience to shine in BMT. Given that she has already been through a similar experience at FT, she should easily excel in BMT and walk away with Honor Graduate-- something that will help her waiver package down the road. The same goes for her Technical Training-- that degree and previous experience should help her earn Distinguished Graduate-- again something that will help justify a second crack at commissioning.

Thank you very much for this helpful information and advice! I will pass this along to her.
 
Can anyone give me information on how the investigation for disenrollment process works? Does the recommendation come from cadre or is it automatically done after not meeting certain requirements? My dd is having one done for missing to many PT sessions. She went over the limit by one. She is not on scholarship but contracted with a rated position with one semester left. She does take full responsibility but has had a very difficult semester. Is this normal? How long does it take to find out? any advice ....

Army? If yes you want to look for CCPAM-145-4 (Enrollment, Retention and Disenrollment)
 
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