Is going to a SMC worth it?

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cheezguard

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Since I was young I was always intrigued with the military lifestyle and have wanted to go to either VMI or the Citadel. I am now a senior and am planning on applying to both The Citadel and VMI as well as other schools. Now that I am older I am seeing everything college has to offer and feel like I would be missing out on a lot if I were to attend one of the two. Is the Gung-Ho lifestyle worth it? I still would love to go to either of the schools but feel as if I would be missing out on so much. Are there any current Cadets in either of these two schools that could answer some questions I have?

How much free time do you have?
Can you travel off-campus?
Is there much of a student life?
Can you work a part-time job?

Pardon my ignorance but I just don't know and would love to have some of these questions answered, thanks.
 
My son is a rat at VMI currently. We visited the VMI campus last October. He knew, immediately, that he had found his place there.
He had also applied, and was accepted to The Citadel and Norwich. Neither of these campuses were really hosting tours at that time, so all of our research was limited to online content and some zoom meetings. VMI just seemed to be everything he wanted- specifically, to be challenged and not be anything like what his buddies from HS were doing. We are from Texas, so there were not many from our state choosing this path.
He won't be able to answer these questions, so I will take a stab at them.
Free time- The first week, hell week, they keep you busy from sun up to sun down. After that, he seems to have free time in the evenings in his dorm room ( he has 5 other roommates ) he is also allowed to spend time in his Dyke's room ( senior mentor )
Travel-They get to go off campus on Sunday for church. After church, he was allowed to hang out at a local B&B that welcomes rats on Sunday to just chill. They also got to go in town and eat dinner this past Saturday-A reward for the football team winning it's home opener.
Student life- Not sure, between ROTC, band, and swimming, he is maxed out.
Part time job- When meeting with the ROTC unit a couple weeks ago, a cadet told us that she works on campus at the library a couple days a week.

Good luck with your choice.

VMI is an amazing place, but you have to want it!
 
I'll just share that the SMCs do have a rigor that involves a pressure / hazing environment. Others can use a more constructive word than hazing but if you wish to handle that, then it can be a great growth experience. If you want more free time then a non SMC environment may better suit you. Structure varies by branch and even by unit so learn more about the specific colleges you wish to be a part of and their time commitments. Recommend for your top 3 and a SMC that you visit/ get boots on ground to see first hand via shadowing a cadet/ midshipmen etc. what you would be getting into.

Yes, they have less free time/ a more structured day. For an unofficial example - try taking a left turn at some of these institutions, where instead you have to make 3 rights. Walk on specific lines, what you say, what you do- regimented. out the wazoo.

There are always stories of 1st year SMC students who participate in band, a varsity sport, work 20 hours a week, and have ample free time. They IMO are time management phenomenons. Most people find the SMC 1st year a real grind - a great program to be from, not in, and yet if you want the challenge, then look into it. A young man who graduated HS with my DS is in the Corps of Cadets and let's just say he is getting through it, not enjoying it - at all. His Dad and I talk a lot and he's telling me horror stories of no life/ suffering and I'm telling him about the goofy stuff my DS is getting into while maintaining great grades, a PT job, and is a leader within his unit.

My DS went the non SA / non SMC path despite being heavily recruited for athletics at a SA- he had no interest. But he's enjoying college at a NON-SMC in NROTC for the reasons you alluded to- free time, social gatherings albeit distanced ones *mostly, dating, and some adventures with his friends like traveling to Philly for cheesesteaks because they found a flight for 20.00 R/T from 1,000 miles away. Time management at those too plays a key role. You will do a lot LESS of that stuff in a SMC, especially year 1.

Good luck to you and thanks for your willingness to serve.
 
What are your plans for your future? Big question for a high school senior, isn't it?

I still keep up with a lot of my former Boy Scouts, and they went many directions. ROTC, Corps of Cadets, a VMI or two here, a Citadel there, and some community college, transferring to a 4 year. A few enlisted, a few still work at McDonalds. All similar boys, all similar demographics, all different priorities.

Being intrigued with VMI or the Citadel isn't enough. You're going to be busy. I just met a young State Policeman who was a VMI grad. He said that while he enjoyed VMI and felt like he got an excellent education, one lesson it taught him was that he did not want to go into the military.

If you do ROTC at a state university, you're going to be busy too. Falling out at 0600 for some PT, mandatory formations, etc.

Is the Gung-Ho life worth it? I dunno. Is learning to be self disciplined of any value?

Sounds to me like you're kicking tires. VMI has a no-obligation program for high schoolers where you get a realistic taste of VMI life. Mommy and daddy drop you off, and you learn a thing or two during this very short "camp".
 
Six years ago, DS was accepted to The Citadel and a local flagship State U." He chose to attend State U. (*mainly for financial reasons)

He is now a 1LT Active Duty Armor Officer, leading an Abrams platoon and recently returned from a combat zone deployment.

In retrospect, he looks fondly back at his college time. He was VERY busy, as he was in AROTC, worked as a snowboard instructor in the winter and waited on tables in the spring and summer. He enjoyed being a "regular" college student for most of the time and being a Cadet during FTX and summer events. He earned good grades and did well on the OML, receiving his first choice of Army branch.

Ultimately, he has no regrets about choosing not to attend an SMC. One of his fellow officers was an SMC grad and DS has nothing but respect for him and they became good friends. Once in the regular Army, officers seem to care less about what school you attended, and far more about performance and hard work.

I thought DS would benefit from the regimentation of the SMC, and it is likely many cadets do. However, my DS had to learn to do so much on his own during college, I think it prepared him well to counsel young enlisted soldiers who are away for the first time in their lives.

Some cadets will thrive at SMC's and others will not. The same thing applies to "normal" college. DS's non-cadet roommate ended up dropping out, because he became lazy and unmotivated to attend class. He may have been one of those personalities who could have benefited from the structure of an SMC.

There is no clear answer.

As @OldAFRet states above, a campus visit for a week, may help you determine if it is a good "fit."
 
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franknd said:
If you attend Va Tech or Texas A&M, you can have the best of both worlds; not to mention that if you decided it wasn't for you, you wouldn't have to transfer.
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yes, can't go wrong with either school.
 
I’m pasting a link to an old thread where I had a good back and forth that fundamentally was addressing your “was it worth it” question. Feel free to follow up with questions based on the linked thread or otherwise. I'm now approaching 1 yr on Active Duty, for context.

VMI or VTCC?

Hello, I’m currently a senior in high school and I have been appointed to VMI and Virginia Tech Corps of Cadet. But, as I have visited these schools many times, I can’t seem to choose a school and the date for me to commit is coming up really soon (May 1st). It would be really appreciative if...
www.serviceacademyforums.com
 
No bad choices among the SMC's. They are all very different, but also share many similarities. Norwich, VMI and The Citadel will be more immersive in terms of the "military" lifestyle. Your time and schedule will be more structured. Texas A&M and VA Tech are wonderful institutions with a storied history of producing fine officers. North GA is often left out, but that is a fantastic school if you are considering AROTC. There are many threads that compare and contrast the different SMCs. Take some time and search the forum. @VMI2017+3 is a great source for VMI info. I went to Norwich and my DS is a smack at The Citadel. Happy to help with anything related to Norwich of El Cid. Good luck!
 
How much free time do you have?
- Time management is one of the greatest lessons of a SMC. You have very little free time between academics, military, and PT/Sports. You must prioritize and balance. When you get out in the "real world" you will have a significant advantage over your peers that went to regular college with regards to time management skills and coping mechanisms.
Can you travel off-campus?
- Not at first or very limited. But it's not a big deal. You will be too involved in the rat or knob challenge to really notice or care. As you progress, you'll get and earn leave. The better your grades and the less demerits you have, the more leave you'll get.
Is there much of a student life?
- Out of necessity and sometimes common misery, SMC's know more about their classmates than regular colleges. The bonds are usually deep and life long. Playing within and rebelling against "The System" is a unique part of student life that you can't find at regular colleges to the degree of the SMC's.
Can you work a part-time job?
- I wouldn't advise it, especially if you are asking about leaving post and student life. We had mess hall workers, library attendants, etc. EMTs and firefighters are neat options.
Summary: Nothing worthwhile is easy and constantly seeking pleasure ultimately leads to less happiness. Most SMC's say they wouldn't do it again but wouldn't trade it either. My older brother challenged me, and I took the bait. Mostly, I went because I knew if I didn't go I'd always wonder. Lastly, we had a lot leave VMI. I've never talked to one of the guys that left VMI that didn't regret it.

My oldest chose UVA and my middle son chose VMI. Both considered both schools. The oldest is more of an individual thinker and doer while the middle is better with group dynamics. There were also certain other triggers that led them to their choice. Both were great choices for each; however, had they made the opposite choice, that decision would have been great too. My advice is to follow the process to the end with an open mind. Once you get to the end of the process, the choice should be easy. The only bad choice is if you choose a SMC and you are not all in. Godspeed!
 
cheezguard said:
Now that I am older I am seeing everything college has to offer and feel like I would be missing out on a lot if I were to attend one of the two.
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Didn't attend a SMC, but USNA. I have never felt I "missed out " on anything... Yes, any Military schools is going to be more restrictive. You will give up freedoms that may be considered rights at other schools, and get them back slowly as privileges. That said, there is something about going through the common hardship with others with the same mindset and goals you have that you won't get at State U. I can also say we had plenty of fun at times -- when the opportunities are limited, you have to make the most of the chances you have.

Have to second VMI's comment though -- If you go, go all in...nothing is worse than being in any military school if you don't want to be there.
 
cheezguard said:
Since I was young I was always intrigued with the military lifestyle and have wanted to go to either VMI or the Citadel. I am now a senior and am planning on applying to both The Citadel and VMI as well as other schools. Now that I am older I am seeing everything college has to offer and feel like I would be missing out on a lot if I were to attend one of the two. Is the Gung-Ho lifestyle worth it? I still would love to go to either of the schools but feel as if I would be missing out on so much. Are there any current Cadets in either of these two schools that could answer some questions I have?

How much free time do you have?
Can you travel off-campus?
Is there much of a student life?
Can you work a part-time job?

Pardon my ignorance but I just don't know and would love to have some of these questions answered, thanks.
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My DS is at VMI and he loves it. In terms of your questions you don't have much free time. As in very little. Travel must be granted and it's rarely a guarantee but you do get to travel off campus on occasion. VMI has many study abroad opportunities, although COVID has altered some of those. There is definitely student life, and unbelievable bonds are formed. It would be nearly impossible to have a part time job while attending VMI but if you contracted you'd get $420 a month as a stipend. VMI is a great value in state and even better if you get a ROTC scholarship.
 
My DS is a Fish at TAMU and he too wanted the military training/lifestyle. The nice thing about TAMU Corp of Cadets is they take classes with other non-cadet students at TAMU. The academic class and major options at TAMU are excellent. He trains hard and is part of the Rudders Ranger unit. He has an open weekend and can certainly travel off-campus. The student life options are good as they are a big part of the football games. As franknd mentioned some cadets figure out that it is not for them and continue on in the University.
 
CatDog99 said:
+1 for small classes at some SMCs.
VMI DS reports average 12 Cadets in his classes this semester. That personal attention creates focused learning environment and that is one reason to choose SMC.
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VMI is the smallest of the SMCs and it’s the only “all-military” of the SMCs—meaning all VMI students are cadets. Also, if you want a bed, don’t go to VMI, because they still sleep on cots for four years! It’s a very Spartan-like existence, but the bonds of VMI grads are exceptional.
Also, in terms of an SMC being “worth it,” next to West Point VMI has graduated more Army Generals than any school in the USA. Also, more Marine Generals (including 2 USMC Commandants) as well. Some would argue an SMC education (and definitely a VMI education) is “worth it!”
 
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DS is a cadet at VT. For him, based on the experiences of his freshman year during the COVID pandemic, going to a SMC is worth it and he has no regrets. Despite 100% zoom academic classes, there was no sense of isolation. He and his company classmates ("Buds" in VTCC terminology) developed a strong sense of identity and comradeship in the face of a demanding military routine.

Admittedly, the SMC cadetship is not for everyone. During the past summer, he went on CORTRAMID, which brings NROTC midshipmen together from across the country. Lucky for him, he was assigned to a mixed company, composed mostly of mids from civilian universities, and the mids exchanged viewpoints and socialized over meals and after duty hours. Some of them were from college programs where their only ROTC experience, up to that point, were zoom classes and the PT test. On the other hand, he often got the humorous comment, "Man, sounds like you live in a jail!"
 
Go be a Hokie at VTech. DS is a senior. Army , Scholarship Holder, Corps of Cadets. 1200+ cadets, Fantastic dorms dedicated to the Corps Great college experience, Great education, Nothing better than a football game at Lane station with 65,000 fans. screaming to Enter Sandman.
 
NJ_Dad said:
Go be a Hokie at VTech. DS is a senior. Army , Scholarship Holder, Corps of Cadets. 1200+ cadets, Fantastic dorms dedicated to the Corps Great college experience, Great education, Nothing better than a football game at Lane station with 65,000 fans. screaming to Enter Sandman.
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I have a New Cadet at VT and he loves it. He was a 4 year AROTC winner and we got to see him take the oath on the field before the football game a couple weeks ago!
 
YES if you want to go active duty Army.

10 U.S.C. § 2111a - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 10. Armed Forces § 2111a. Support for senior military colleges​


(e) Assignment to active duty.--(1)  The Secretary of the Army shall ensure that a graduate of a senior military college who desires to serve as a commissioned officer on active duty upon graduation from the college, who is medically and physically qualified for active duty, and who is recommended for such duty by the professor of military science at the college, shall be assigned to active duty.
(2)  Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the Secretary of the Army from requiring a member of the program who graduates from a senior military college to serve on active duty.
(f) Senior military colleges. --The senior military colleges are the following:
(1)  Texas A & M University.
(2)  Norwich University.
(3)  The Virginia Military Institute.
(4)  The Citadel.
(5)  Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University.
(6)  The University of North Georgia.
 
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