I attended college on a four year AFROTC scholarship, was commissioned upon graduation, and served my time. My sister had a four year AFROTC scholarship, but opted out after the first year. I do not consider her a veteran, but she says she has a DD 214. She's registered at Lowe's to get her 10% discount there. Whatever. But recently I found out that she is considered a veteran by National Society Daughters of the American Revolution. DAR is a service organization, dedicated to education, historic preservation, and patriotism. Serving active duty and veterans is one of our major missions. I am registered as a veteran for DAR. It REALLY offends me that she is also considered a veteran. We don't get along very well, so I haven't seen her DD 214 and won't talk to her about it. I don't understand it, and I truly feel this is dishonoring true active duty and veterans. Does anyone have more information about this?
Is one year of AFROTC considered active duty?
- Thread starter Sonnie
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TBVADAD
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Hi There and welcome to the forum. My personal opinion on this one. I see people parking in "Reserved for Veteran" knowing probably 90% they're not veterans. Should I rope it off and check IDs?
Bottom line: She if is a veteran or not. Stolen Valor is a thing and her getting 10% at Lowes isn't worth the blood pressure and stress.
Thank you for your service!
Bottom line: She if is a veteran or not. Stolen Valor is a thing and her getting 10% at Lowes isn't worth the blood pressure and stress.
Thank you for your service!
tortiemilo
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My daughter is a current 4-yr Army national scholarship recipient - we were told that she is not Active Duty while in ROTC (she is "active duty for training", which is not the same as AD nor does it convey the same benefits). I believe you do get a DD-214 if you were a contracted ROTC cadet and leave - I don't know, however, what is noted on the form to show that the recipient was never full active duty.
Zaphod Beeblebrox
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I believe DAR is a private organization so complain to their board of directors or whatever. I agree I don't think a first-year ROTC voluntary drop is a veteran and am puzzled how she got a 214. I've got some ideas for t-shirts you could gift her!
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I know this is bugging you. Continue to take the high road and ignore it if you can. Love her as your sister but you don’t have to like choices, values, actions, decisions. The joys of infuriating family members.
There is the definition of “veteran” as defined by the VA for federal benefits, by each state for their own unique own state veterans’ benefits program, by retailers for their discount programs, by private non-profit organizations.
Many retailers use id.me as a validation service to authenticate military service for discounts. Gets them out of the business of verifying in-store and solves online purchase verification. I’m registered with id.me and gov.com, which I use online and with the id.com digital ID in my Apple Wallet in the store at Home Depot, online with Yeti and other retailers. Both of those sites have direct links to retailers they partner with to verify veteran or military status. Now, as I recall, I provided name, SSN (ensured I was on laptop at home inside our system), DOB, service, active—reserve-retired-separated, MM/YY I left service. Presumably your sister was in the system and passed Lowe’s definition for the discount.
You are eligible for federal and state veterans’ benefits. I doubt your sister is eligible for federal, and as to state, that depends how they define “veteran.”
You can google va.gov definition of a veteran for federal benefits and services.
As for the DAR, see if you can explore any of their organizational documents - IF you want to be the dog with the bone and shaking it - to achieve - what. Just think it through. Most humans dislike admitting they were wrong or knew they were being a bit shady, and they also don’t like to apologize if cornered. Think about what is realistic here, given family dynamics and your relationship with your sister. Is it worth it?
You know what you did, and well done to you for honorable active duty service. Your sister took an oath, wore a uniform as an AFROTC cadet in what I think is inactive Reserve status except for any active duty for training status during summer training periods or field exercises. Try not to think further than that. You know the difference. You don’t have to win the point in public.
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USMC Crayons
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Bottom line, under US Code, she is not considered a Veteran. A DD-214 for active duty for training does not convey Veteran status. https://www.va.gov/OSDBU/docs/Determining-Veteran-Status.pdf
Impulsive
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Normally since ROTC Programs are "Reserve" Officer programs, any disenrollment or leaving while on scholarship results in a DD-785, NOT a DD-214. Normally the only way someone is issued a DD-214 in ROTC is if they were to be "Medically Discharged" after sustaining an injury while on ACDUTRA (active duty for training). None of the "civilian" Service Organizations VFW, DAV, American Legion, have any claim or validity designating anyone as a "Veteran" except for their own internal purposes (membership). Only DoD can issue DD-214's or DD-785's, any civilian organization can issue a membership card. If Home Depot accepted that, it is likely in error. Many State's or Counties issue "local" Veteran ID Cards, as to what documentation is required I cannot speculate, but it does not validate someone as a "Veteran".
ColordoKid24
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Generally agree with most comments on this. Not worth losing sleep over. But, I would not characterize ROTC as primarily "Reserve" training. I believe the majority of officers commissioned are from ROTC, aren't they? The R in ROTC is kind of misleading.
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It’s one of the hardest thing to explain.
An officer can have either a Regular or Reserve commission, meaning their rank is styled with “USN” or “USMC” or whatever with no R. An officer with a reserve commission has the USNR. A USNA graduate earns a USN or USMC regular commission. When they separate and choose to join the active reserve, they become USNR. The “R” in ROTC refers to type of commission they currently hold. They resigned their active duty status and were commissioned in the USNR. It used to be ROTC officers graduated with a USNR commission, went active duty, and pending sustained good performance, would “augment” to a USN regular commission. I think they receive a USN regular commission now. I earned a USNR commission out of Navy OCS and went to active duty. I received a letter from BUPERS after 2 years, saying I would be augmented to a regular USN commission, unless I declined. I asked my boss, and he said it was a good thing. I’m not going to go into what some of the differences are here, a headache-making rabbit hole.
There can also be several types of duty, active duty and Reserve duty being some of the duty types. Reserve officers perform active duty for training during their civilian lives. They can still be activated and ordered to full active duty - but they are still USNR officers.
I’d welcome @OldRetSWO insights. I was trying to keep this very basic.
Pretty sure they changed ROTC and OCS commissions so we get regular commissions. Not sure when this happened, but mine is a regular one I believe
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That’s what I thought. The change has occurred across various commissioning sources. A good thing.
Here was the big kicker difference. If you had a regular USN commission, you served at the pleasure of SECNAV after your ADSO, meaning after you completed your ADSO, any other service time obligations for things like grad school and any time obligations for an area tour (OCONUS tours tend to be whatever the required DoD tour length is, because OCONUS PCS moves are $$$), you could continue your career and promotions if your performance warranted. If you requested to resign your commission and separate, you could be retained indefinitely, if the needs of the Navy dictated. Quite often, people would choose not to augment, because they wanted that freedom to go after their obligation ended.
If you had a USNR commission, you could complete your obligated service per your contract and any other service time obligations, request to separate, and it would essentially have to be a very special circumstance to retain you involuntarily.
That also worked the other way, and it was this situation that drove the commissioning sources to regular commissions. In the 90s, following the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Navy went from a 600-ship Navy rapidly downwards in size across the board - people, bases, ships, aircraft, etc. This was happening across all services. In the Navy, a major force reduction plan was put into play. Officers on active duty with USNR commissions who had completed their service obligations were sent letters thanking them for their service and told they would be given no further active duty orders, and they would be separated in X period of time or at the end of their current tour, whichever came first. It did not matter if they were a pack-plus hot runner with eye-watering fitness reports who wanted a full career. And, usually, if you reach the rank of LCDR (O-4) in the Navy, but don’t promote to CDR after the 3 annual promo boards, you are allowed to finish your 20 and retire, with full retirement benefits. It’s not statutory though. At the rank of CDR and senior, statutory protections are in place. During this force reduction, LCDRs with 17 or 18 (I can’t recall) years or more were offered early retirement and a bonus payment if they left before 20. LCDRs who had failed to promote by then and had less than the 17 or 18 were required to separate, given a bonus, were separated but not retired, so no benefits (retirement pay, healthcare, etc.). There was no TSP at the time for military. It was brutal - imagine being that close to a full career and generous retirement benefits (the DOPMA retirement for those people would have been the straight 50% of last retired pay, not the High Three 50%, or the subsequent plans that have followed).
What really brought the USN vs USNR type commission into focus was the fact there was no quality control in the culling of the herd. At the time, I was the Flag Secretary/N1 at a surface ship staff on the West Coast. I had COs sitting on my sofa, furious that of all the mixed-commission officers on their ship, perhaps their top-ranked LTs came out of NROTC or OCS, but because of their USNR commission, they were being released, while perhaps they had some pack and pack-minus performers out of USNA with a USN commission, and they were immune to the USNR release. There were even cases where USN officers offered to resign to allow a USNR officer to stay - denied. I have often said here the commissioning source differential wears off after about a year, and after that, it’s performance, performance, performance, that matters, for a CO. USNA grad COs often had just a hazy idea about how the Regular vs Reserve type of commission worked, and were quite shocked and upset that good officers were being forced out. Many of the COs and XOs I met during that time went on to become flag officers, which I think led to the change. The Navy was shooting itself in the foot. By changing the type of commissions from Reserve to Regular, that solved the root problem.
The “R” still remaining in NROTC is a reminder of the type commission that used to be given.
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Impulsive
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My understanding is that the 2005 Military Authorization Act mandated that ALL officers, ROTC, OCS, and Academy while on Active Duty be given a "Regular Commission". This usually means that if you graduate from an ROTC Program and go on to Active Duty for four or more years you get the same Commission as Academy Grads. Keep in mind, IF there is not a need for active duty officers ROTC and OCS officers can still be given a "Reserve" Commission. In reality the type of Commission means nada, you still serve and can be called to AD at any time prior to "resigning" your Commission. Certain ROTC Programs (namely Army) still offer Reserve service, meaning upon Commissioning you are released to attend grad school, work, family, without any ADSO. This leads to a Reserve Commission. You can still apply or get called into active duty, but your Commission I believe stays the same (you do not get a new Commissioning Certificate). USMMA Grads get a Reserve Commission unless they are selected for Active Duty upon graduation, and continue to serve as Reserve Naval Officers while in the US Merchant Marine.
If I read the 2005 NDA correctly, only Direct Commissions (Medical, Legal, and Engineering types), Elected Reserve Programs, and USMMA Merchant Marine Officer Grads serving in the Merchant Marine are given "Reserve" Commissions. Regular ROTC grads with an ADSO of 4 or more years are given "Regular Commissions". If I have this screwed up (like I sometimes do) someone please correct me?
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My heads hurts sufficiently, so I will extend you my complete trust and confidence. I knew there was a reason I avoided manpower management jobs in the Navy.