Is USNA acceptance rate slightly unethical?

Is it ethical?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 88.9%
  • No!

    Votes: 4 11.1%

  • Total voters
    36
If he were in the service wouldn't it fit under 'conduct unbecoming'? Seems to me it should in civilian world as well, but Federal employees seem to be wrapped in Teflon.
 
Service is different the federal employment. Although federal employees actually take an oath too... it’s very similar to the military one. But the military we have contracts and the UCMJ.
 
at USNA, some of the professors are military and some are civilian. the military ones are permanent faculty (ie. not just there for a 2 or 3 year tour, though there are plenty of 03-05 instructors who are short term). the military professors are still active duty, and bound by the UCMJ and other standards.

the civilians though are not, and when they achieve tenure, they have a great deal of academic freedom and protections to ensure "scholars are free to hold and examine a variety of views", same as at any other university. that's not a bad thing, but seems that it can be abused.

like him or not (i mostly do not), Prof Fleming is a tenured prof, and he likes to promote his views to as wide an audience as possible. if you read his stuff, he claims to be writing as someone who 'loves the institution' and only wants to improve it and see it live up to it's ideals - though he mostly comes across as a bomb thrower.

he's always been a thorn in the side of USNA, but what finally got him fired was conduct (the speedo thing) not his opinions.
 
Last edited:
https://www.usna.edu/Academics/_files/documents/faculty/faculty-handbook.pdf

11. Code of Ethics
Naval Academy faculty members, as federal civil employees and uniformed members of the United States Armed Forces, must adhere to the Bedrock Standards of Conduct for Department of the Navy Personnel and the Code of Ethics for Government Service (Department of Defense Directive 5500.7-R). The Bedrock Standards are contained in U.S.Naval Academy Instruction 5370.6 series, Department of Defense Directive 5500.7-R
 
Last edited:
If he were in the service wouldn't it fit under 'conduct unbecoming'? Seems to me it should in civilian world as well, but Federal employees seem to be wrapped in Teflon.

There is literally no such thing anymore in our society as “conduct unbecoming”. Watch some TV or look at the Kartrashians. Unbecoming? Ha!
 
+ @A6E Dad

11. Code of Ethics
HACDEANINST 5370.3 series “requires . . . members of the academic community [to] act in ways that will avoid any conflict of interest or the appearance of a conflict of interest.”

13. Talking with the Press
"... At the same time, faculty members and media representatives must keep in mind—and keep clear—the perspective from which members of the faculty are speaking when talking with the press. As federal civil servants, they should make clear when they are speaking from their professional academic perspective, or their personal perspective as an American citizen; they should refrain from speaking as a representative of the Naval Academy, the Navy, the Department of Defense or the U. S. Government, except when specifically authorized to do so. ..."
.
 
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...tm_term=Editorial - Navy - Daily News Roundup

“Syska wrote that no one who received the photos appeared particularly offended by them, except for the primary complaining midshipman. Syska also wrote that he was "hard pressed to find misconduct" in the touching allegations.”

"The appellant appears to be a rather unique professor at the academy," Syska wrote. "He is irreverent, theatrical, fashion-conscious, outspoken in his criticism of the academy (both in the classroom and his writings), and liberally sprinkles his classes with profanity and discussions of sexually-related topics (from condom use to transgender surgery)."

I’m seriously confused. How is this even ok? Some ‘judge’ is deciding whether or not someone else is ‘offended’?? This is why people DONT come forward BC they are discredited. And if people HAVE complained and nothing is done, then why even try anymore. I’m so surprised by this.

And also, what does the fact that the person complained attended religious schools before USNA have anything to do with anything?

I’ve read that article several times and it leaves me with a taste that the judge also doesn’t particularly care for USNA. What am i missing. It’s an ENGLISH class...with a liberal dose of “profanity”? Weird. Maybe if it was a sexuality elective class or something I wouldn’t object. But a required English class that discusses sexuality, condoms and transgender surgery doesn’t sit well my my tax dollar paying education of Midshipmen.
 
.
I expect more of the same from the Subject when he returns.
.
 
No. Not slightly, not moderately, not severely. USNA is quite transparent about how many initiate the process, how many make it through each significant step, and how many receive offer of appointment. It's there for anyone to find, so USNA isn't being dishonest at all. Every college sets its own criteria for calculating acceptance rate, applying their own set of "asterisks" to qualify the final number. Do research into any school's self-reported statistic and you'll see there are differences throughout.

By the way, if a prospective candidate is intimidated by USNA's very low acceptance rate, and that somehow keeps them from applying, then that's their problem, isn't it? I'd say that they don't want to attend USNA enough. There's not necessarily any shame in that. USNA isn't for everyone. There are other honorable ways to win butter bars and become a commissioned officer.

I visited the Naval Academy website and opened the class portrait. There is no asterisk. The snapshot states 16,086 application, 1,373 offers of appointment. Period.
Click here for details: https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/_files/documents/ClassPortrait.pdf

I was a Blue and Gold Officer several years ago and was annoyed that NROTC candidates would pop up in my dashboard and never express any interest. It turns out that NROTC and USNA were sharing data; the NROTC candidates may not have had the slightest interest in USNA but USNA counted them as applicants. Absolutely bizarre! The application for Summer Seminar used to be called the "application for Summer Seminar." At some point, USNA changed the name to "Preliminary Application". If I was a Company Officer or Battalion Officer in the Yard and a Midshipman pulled this stunt, I would refer them to the Bridge Honor Committee without stopping to consider the "counsel" option. The reason is that the practice is highly deceptive. Even if technically a "truth," the methodology likely deceives the overwhelming majority of people that hear the statistic.

Many other schools invite high school students to attend summer classes, sports camps, and enrichment programs--I'm not aware of any (other than USNA) who count those as applicants for purposes of admission statistics. The objective measures--SATs, GPAs--tend to be significantly higher at other institutions who have a single digit acceptance rate. This article provides a look at the credentials of a few students applying to Ivy League schools. http://nymag.com/news/features/24398/
It just wouldn't be that impressive to tout that USNA has more than 4,500 qualified applicants each year and had to turn away more than 60% of them Shoot, Duke and Penn reject more than 60% of the *valedictorians* who apply! As mediocre as Fleming is (and let's be honest, his writing is *really* mediocre, which really doesn't commend the people who hired him), he has a valid point when he accuses the Academy leadership of gilding the lily in college admissions.
 
While we’re on questionable marketing practices, USNA’s advertisement of their college rankings have always bothered me much more than the acceptance rate issue.

To quote from the USNA website:

——————————

The following is a selection of the recognitions earned by our academic program.

U.S. News and World Report
  • Top Public School
  • Best Undergraduate Engineering Program
  • High School Counselor Rankings
——————————

No mention that our “top public school” ranking (a) is last year, now we’re number two behind West Point, or (b) that it excludes public schools that offer graduate or doctoral degrees, which is just about all of them.

No mention that our “best undergraduate engineering program” ranking (a) is also old, now we’re number four, or (b) that it excludes public schools that offer doctoral degrees, which is again just about all of them.

The statements are simply not true as written.

USNA is a great school with a very specific product that attracts a very specific type of applicant and produces a very unique graduate. We’re great at what we do, but I do wish we could advertise accurately (ethically) and just be honest about easily verifiable stats and statements, whether that’s acceptance rates or rankings. I would hope we attract future officers with the critical thinking skills to verify those statements and not accept them at face value, which seems like it would then turn off those quality candidates.
 
U.S. News and World Report
  • Top Public School
  • Best Undergraduate Engineering Program
  • High School Counselor Ranking. The statements are simply not true as written.
OK...I get it, but USNA didn't write them....US News & World report did and USNA, just like WP or USAFA exploit them and if we were in any college admissions role, so would we. Nothing like a third party endorsement. That's marketing.
 
This article provides a look at the credentials of a few students applying to Ivy League schools. http://nymag.com/news/features/24398/
.
These student portraits don’t tell me anything. Where are these kids today and what have they accomplished?

I am more impressed having read the portraits of HS underachievers or late bloomers who go on to accomplish great things.
.
 
DS found it strange that when he was filling out some pre-I Day on-line academic questionnaire one of the questions was, “Were you accepted to one or more Ivies?” Why would they need to know that at this stage of the game? I suspect they are trying to collect data for admissions stats that can be used in marketing or assessment of who they are attracting. College admissions is not for the feint of heart.
 
NEWSFLASH: Yesterday, the Merit Systems Protection Board upheld Prof Fleming's appeal and directed that he be reinstated with backpay. Personally, I think this is not a plus for USNA.

Really??!! I want to be the one to see my plebe’s face when she learns this.......
 
YGTBSM.. federal employees are truly bullet proof. I don't have time to locate the decision online, but suspect some element of a "retaliation" defense is involved.

Agree , this isn't good for USNA. While I can support academic freedom and dissenting speech, he did it wrong --and its going to be even worse now that he thinks he's bullet proof.

Hoo Boy! This will get ‘interesting’
 
First, the Navy never does anything unethical. But why does it matter what the statistics say? As Benjamin Disraeli said: "There are lies, there are dammed lies, and then there are statistics." If you read up on the profiles of the students that are accepted you will know what it takes. It is darned hard to get in. My SWAG is that even if you have a very strong profile, i.e, SAT's over 1400, Great Grades, Varsity Sports, Leadership etc. , you still have only something like a 1 in 4 chance of an appointment. It's a crap shoot. All you can do is do your best, have a Plan B, C, D and even E. And, what will be, will be.

My DD’s motto during the process was “Nobody gets in but somebody gets in”. Strive to be that ‘somebody’ and lots of good will come your way, separate from appointment.
 
An English professor will be the least of my Plebe's worries once classes start!
 
Back
Top