Is USNA right for my son?

[Dr. Strange Love]

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Automation … AI … ChatGPT

If you become a Medical Doctor … you become a Specialist (e.g, Surgeon), because AI is replacing everything else, … ChatGPT will be your Medical Therapist …

If you want to be in Intelligence, you get Hard Engineering and Data Science degree … AI & Automation are replacing gobs of routine intelligence functions … more every day

Follow the $$$ … Engineering, DATA and AI ... be relevant and be Marketable …
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[ders_dad]

I was in the liquor store parking lot the other day and I parked next to a car with a USNA alumni sticker. That’s an extremely unusual thing to see in my part of the world. The owner was just coming out of the store so I engaged him. He just got out after his 5 years of service. He started SWO and laterally transferred to intelligence after 3 years as a SWO. He really liked intelligence and (for him), it was not difficult.

I’ll also say that smart, introverts who love history will do just fine at USNA and find like-minded.

 

[TAMUMom1990]

One thing I figured out, is to let all the ‘career planning’ go. A SA Officer post military trajectory cannot be predicted. The leadership, responsibility they have for high value assets at an early age, etc on their resume that they will come out with, will open doors that wouldn't be otherwise.

At least that’s what I’ve been told and shown.

As a mom, I would put my worry aside about all this. And let them forge their way. You don’t want this to be heavily swayed by you, bc if they are unhappy, you will want clean hands.

Idk if this is child #1 heading on to the next chapter, but every single child (birth and borrowed, including friends) have changed their minds as far as careers.

Open doors. And in a year-ish, he can make his choice of the options before him. That’s my ‘mom advice’

I agree with this, but he keeps being told by advisors that he needs a solid answer to the career path question for SA and nomination interviews. He met with an ROTC recruiter yesterday who gave him a hard time for not having a decisive answer to what he wanted to do in the military. Told him he needed to figure it out quick and be ready to answer that question confidently and decisively. That's hard to do at 17.

 

[JohnMcLane]

Although Intel is not easy to get right out of USNA, a fairly good percentage of the Intelligence Community Officers do come from USNA and that is because they laterally transfer from one of the line communities after they become qualified in that community. It is a widely held belief within many Navy communities that Intel briefers are more trusted/believable when they're wearing a warfare pin from Surface/Air/Subs and the way to get that is by first GOING to one of those communities.
West Point does allow more to select Intel at commissioning but many of the folks who choose non-combat arms details will find themselves sent to a combat arms unit and training as a first posting for basically the same reason.

In the Army, Intel officers who spent time leading troops in miserable and/or dangerous conditions also have more instant credibility to decision makers than those who have only ever been Intel and have never heard the sound of the guns.

 

[A1Janitor]

I agree with this, but he keeps being told by advisors that he needs a solid answer to the career path question for SA and nomination interviews. He met with an ROTC recruiter yesterday who gave him a hard time for not having a decisive answer to what he wanted to do in the military. Told him he needed to figure it out quick and be ready to answer that question confidently and decisively. That's hard to do at 17.

For interview questions - I would be well informed about the branch and the various paths so you can answer questions confidently and can ask good questions too.

I am looking at a few different paths that interest me including x and y. Here is why I chose those, as I feel my strengths are a and my interests are b, for instance.

My son has changed his career ideas as much as he has changed his underwear since 6tj grade (nba is out, astronaut still on the table). He did his homework on every choice.

 

[MidCakePa]

He met with an ROTC recruiter yesterday who gave him a hard time for not having a decisive answer to what he wanted to do in the military. Told him he needed to figure it out quick and be ready to answer that question confidently and decisively.

Seems like an unusually aggressive approach — and certainly not consistent with our experiences as DD progressed through USNA.

The only thing that should matter at this point is that he aspires to be a naval or Marine officer. He might have an inkling of which MOS he prefers. And he should know that USNA’s mission is to commission unrestricted line officers, i.e. front lines.

But beyond that? If you find a USNA grad who didn’t change their mind at least a couple times re warfare community, you’ve unearthed a rare species.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

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It would help your son a lot if he had a Mentor right now … a “C-Suite” type with SA or ROTC roots, and with some real world Military and Industry experience to guide him.

@MidCakePa is right about the ROTC recruiter expecting too much … that’s why mentorship from parents and trusted experts is so important
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[Academician]

USNA1985 makes some great points on the pursuit of options. I ask my students to form their Plan A, B & C -- typically, the SAs, ROTC scholarships and civilian universities. Having options will allow your son to see, explore and experience the different paths. By the way, USAFA, USNA, USMA and USCGA all host summer sports camps at the school, which are great ways to experience the schools as the participants stay in the dorms, eat in the mess hall, meet cadets/middies, and work with the staff. I'm a bit biased, but I believe USAFA is a great path for your son and his pursuit of Intel and a pilot slot, if he desires. But I would encourage applying to multiple SAs. I hope him the best with his journey!

 

[justdoit19]

I agree with this, but he keeps being told by advisors that he needs a solid answer to the career path question for SA and nomination interviews. He met with an ROTC recruiter yesterday who gave him a hard time for not having a decisive answer to what he wanted to do in the military. Told him he needed to figure it out quick and be ready to answer that question confidently and decisively. That's hard to do at 17.

Oh my goodness, that’s not right at all. He still has time to figure it out. And honestly? That’s one of the things that USNA did/does for my two. The exposure they get DURING THEIR TIME THERE (read: not before) is beyond what I would expect. All to to help them decide a good fit for them. In fact, that exposure I believe is one of the biggest selling points of a SA.

And as a BGO, while I do want to know that someone I am interviewing has spent time exploring the different communities, I personally prefer that someone tell me they are open to different communities. Bc I know that they may not receive their first choice.

I’m not sure what’s going on but he doesn’t need a recruiter. I had 3 apply, 2 appointed, no recruiter.

Has he checked out every page available at USNA.edu (NOT .com)? Especially admissions? The steps are all laid out. Same with the NROTC application. As well as his nominating sources websites (apply to ALL available to him!!).

Also, he should ask his school counselor for a BGO for his school. Most will be willing to answer questions! And, there is a lot of good info here on the forums. Some bad, but mostly good. And the bad gets called out.

 

[angecorrado]

As several on here have stated direct Intel assignment is a small %. Here are some specifics that quantify those assertions. Obtaining a complementary degree and and assignment can certainly help for a lateral after a few years.

NAVAL ACADEMY CLASS OF 2023 OBTAIN CAREER ASSIGNMENTS

NAVAL ACADEMY CLASS OF 2023 OBTAIN CAREER ASSIGNMENTS page for USNA News Center at USNA.edu. Updated Sat Apr 13 23:49:03 EDT 2024.

www.usna.edu

 

[Pegasussquadronwindownix]

Possibly look into the USMC option for graduation in regards to an intel career. That is definitely an option out of USNA

 

[MidCakePa]

Possibly look into the USMC option for graduation in regards to an intel career. That is definitely an option out of USNA

It’s indeed an option. Keep in mind that you must want to become a Marine, first and foremost. And that the specific Marine MOS (other than air and cyber) is not assigned until 2/3 of the way through The Basic School. The assignment is based largely on TBS performance, but the three-tier assignment system means finishing near the top of the class doesn’t necessarily guarantee your first choice, especially for an MOS with few spots.

 

[Gnarlygoat27]

My husband is a USNA grad and intel officer. He was a history major, did 8 years in subs first grinding his way through nuke school with hard work, and then laterally transferred. We do know of 2 people that were medically disqualified for something for unrestricted line options and went straight into intel, I think it's a small handful every year. One is nearing retirement as a Captain here soon. DH quite enjoys mentoring younger sailors and officers and I'm sure he'd be willing to answer some questions for your son if you'd like to send a private message. In fact when we went to tour a school with our son and met with some of the midshipmen in their ROTC program he spent more time giving them career advice than they did school info. He's really enjoyed the path his career has taken since transferring; we've lived overseas more than once, time on big gray ships, time on both coasts. Multiple tours around DC, sometimes interacting with the alphabet soup agencies. He has two masters degrees paid by the Navy, one from Harvard. He's been involved in some pretty high profile news stuff in years past and currently is in a really cool job that I won't get into because it kinda gives away his identity. Needless to say the Naval Academy is absolutely a viable path to a successful career in intel, just perhaps not a direct one. And 100% he may find something that is a better fit along the way, it's very hard to map out these things when you're so young! DH was planning to becoming an infantry marine when I met him so

 

[NeverSayNever]

I agree with this, but he keeps being told by advisors that he needs a solid answer to the career path question for SA and nomination interviews. He met with an ROTC recruiter yesterday who gave him a hard time for not having a decisive answer to what he wanted to do in the military. Told him he needed to figure it out quick and be ready to answer that question confidently and decisively. That's hard to do at 17.

The advisors are correct but it sounds like the delivery from the recruiter was poor. It is fine to be somewhat squishy with the details of "what I want to do in the military" part of the answer to the question but the recruiters, BGOs etc and the congressional staffers will want to hear clearly that there is motivation to join and serve and have a realistic idea of the career paths are available and service commitments required.

For example: I am interested in joining the NROTC unit as I would like to serve my country as an officer in the Navy. My ideal career path would be as a Naval Aviator flying the F-35. I understand though that my desires come second to the needs of the service and would be happy flying anything. Likewise, I also understand that if I'm not selected to go fly than other career paths like subs or surface warfare are available and I can easily see myself performing well in that capacity. My long term career goal is to work in the national intelligence field and I intend to use my military experience and advanced education to pursue those goals.

What the Navy doesn't don't want is to hear are things like: I want to be an F22 pilot (air force jet) or join Ranger Battalion (army) or otherwise clueless to the jobs that are or ARE NOT available via a particular service academy.

 

[cb7893]

My husband is a USNA grad and intel officer. He was a history major, did 8 years in subs first grinding his way through nuke school with hard work, and then laterally transferred. We do know of 2 people that were medically disqualified for something for unrestricted line options and went straight into intel, I think it's a small handful every year. One is nearing retirement as a Captain here soon. DH quite enjoys mentoring younger sailors and officers and I'm sure he'd be willing to answer some questions for your son if you'd like to send a private message. In fact when we went to tour a school with our son and met with some of the midshipmen in their ROTC program he spent more time giving them career advice than they did school info. He's really enjoyed the path his career has taken since transferring; we've lived overseas more than once, time on big gray ships, time on both coasts. Multiple tours around DC, sometimes interacting with the alphabet soup agencies. He has two masters degrees paid by the Navy, one from Harvard. He's been involved in some pretty high profile news stuff in years past and currently is in a really cool job that I won't get into because it kinda gives away his identity. Needless to say the Naval Academy is absolutely a viable path to a successful career in intel, just perhaps not a direct one. And 100% he may find something that is a better fit along the way, it's very hard to map out these things when you're so young! DH was planning to becoming an infantry marine when I met him so

@Capt MJ gets the award for best posts on a regular basis, but @Gnarlygoat27 gets the award for best post on this thread. The only thing missing is admonishing you for writing:

He has a very good chance of an appointment based upon his qualifications

There is a mountain to climb between now and his packet being completed, including preparing for plans a, b and c.

Seems to me the focus should be on where he will be happiest and most successful starting 18 months from now and the following 45.

He should focus on the 10 meters ahead of him instead of the 1000 meter goal. I am speaking as a formerly over concerned parent.

Wish him the best of luck!

 

[cb7893]

@Capt MJ, of course YOU liked my post.

 

[Rach3]

With his interests, suggest he also explore intel careers in the federal “ABC” agencies and departments which are hungry for career intelligence analysts. It’s a big community. They have college programs and internships. I am not talking about “door-kicker” agents here, but the community of functional experts and analysts in intel, cyber, logistics, operations planning, forensics, etc., who work in concert with operational types.

For example:

NSA student and internship programs

The National Security Agency offer internships, scholarships, a co-op program and more.

www.intelligencecareers.gov

Student Programs - CIA

The internship and co-op programs at CIA offer highly unique and rewarding student experiences as you help keep our Nation safe. Work alongside experts in your field as you gain real-world experience within the intelligence community.

www.cia.gov

Careers & Opportunities

www.dia.mil

Office of Naval Intelligence > Careers > Intern Programs

www.oni.navy.mil

Students and Interns | FBIJOBS

Protect the American people and uphold the Constitution by joining the FBI as a special agent, intelligence analyst, or professional in over 200 career trajectories.

fbijobs.gov

Students | Homeland Security

Student Hiring Programs: Acquisition and Procurement, Cybersecurity, Pathways, Health and Science, I&A Internship, Law Enforcement, Legal, Public Affairs.

www.dhs.gov

Intelligence Community student and internship programs

We offer a wide variety of programs to jumpstart your career.

www.intelligencecareers.gov

That’s just a sample of what’s out there for those who know they want intel from the get-go. In the military, that’s a relatively small officer community and not the primary purpose of the SAs and ROTC programs.

Your son should also research the SA websites, read every page, link and hamburger/drop-down menu item to understand their mission and the officer specialty communities available. The SAs produce leaders and warriors first. Visiting the SAs and attending their summer programs is also a great way to explore whether the military path is a fit for him.

The sister of one of the mids we sponsored at USNA did the NSA program while a math major at Purdue. She was immediately hired by them after graduation, has rapidly progressed, and had her applied mathematics M.S. at a prestigious university paid for. She can’t talk about what she does, but she thoroughly enjoys her work. She knew the “warrior path” taken by her sister was not for her, and she also had a med issue that DQ’ed her from military service, which was not an issue for federal service.

And, there are plenty of introverts in the military. As long as you know how to get up and talk to and lead your people, engage with them, you’re fine.

Fabulous advice, as always!!!

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

If mine had posted this question I’d say

If they want to be a warrior a shooter at the tip of the spear go Navy Spec Warfare. Or US Army. They would have more direct access to the communities they want. The Marines are a crap shoot and luck at this.

If they want to be an intel officer go where where they can promise you a shot at this career path. Not the USNA.

If they want to be a Marine go USMC.

 

[Gnarlygoat27]

It is a widely held belief within many Navy communities that Intel briefers are more trusted/believable when they're wearing a warfare pin from Surface/Air/Subs and the way to get that is by first GOING to one of those communities.

This is spot on and DH has mentioned many times how his sub time has helped not only his credibility but also networking. Not just important for his career but knowing who to connect with when faced with a certain task or problem set is pretty useful in this line of work… and all of the military I’m guessing.

 

[justdoit19]

This is spot on and DH has mentioned many times how his sub time has helped not only his credibility but also networking. Not just important for his career but knowing who to connect with when faced with a certain task or problem set is pretty useful in this line of work… and all of the military I’m guessing.

Is he the next Supe️????

Is THAT the BIG announcement??