It may not be true but….

S

Small Team Bacsi

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I realize that those who are at the prep schools are AD , subject to the UCMJ, getting a military salary, and out of that salary they pay for uniforms, computers, etc.

I have been told by a parent that on a different forum unrelated to these forums students and parents are being encouraged to apply for civilian scholarships to cover the cost of uniforms and computers.

If this is true would this be legal and ethical from a JAG standpoint?

And if it’s true and legal would this be a good look for the military prep schools . The press does love to run stories about why do we have those expensive tax payer funded prep schools.

And more stories about the massive school debt many civilians face



I doubted the story to be true but my friend says I am wrong.
 
I don't have a child in a prep school so I don't know all the particulars, but my first response is that of course I would encourage my child to apply for civilian scholarships. At the service academies, their tuition and room & board are paid, but they also have expenses for uniforms, laptop, books, equipment, etc... They receive a small stipend each month as well, and are given a loan to cover the bulk of the up front expenses which they then pay back out of their pay. At least at USCGA, the finance area will accept scholarship checks to pay down that loan as long as they don't specify that they must be used for tuition. My daughter is at USCGA, and she has gotten outside scholarships which she has applied to her loan. As long as the scholarship doesn't specify it is for tuition only (when that is paid for), then there is nothing unethical about that to me at all. Most scholarships only specify that they must be used for required school expenses. Books, equipment, and uniforms are all required.
 
Pretty common for MIDN to have scholarships coming in, and it can be applied to pay back the ACE loan depending on the terms of the scholarship.

Definitely legal, not seeing how it's unethical if the scholarship is earned by the individual and executed per the awarding organization's terms.

Press loves to run stories about how USNA/ROTC programs are a waste of money anyway. OCS is the most cost effective and the only officer accession program that needs to exist.
 
One could argue it ‘unethical’ to apply for scholarships, at any college, where they are already receiving academic scholarships from the state xx school. Also taxpayer subsidized. But i doubt anyone thinks twice about that. Why would a SA be any different?

My own refused to apply to anything, his personal choice. He felt others ‘needed’ it more than he, where his schooling is ‘paid for’. I disagreed. As his mom, i knew the sacrifices HE made over the k-12 years, to study. Work. Varsity sports. ECA’s. All to be the best he could be….all those years, imo, are deserving of anything he would have received.

Fast forward to him looking back? Seeing his buddies with bigger ‘paychecks? He wished he would have. Hindsite is 20/20. And mom knows nothing 🙄. Its all good though.

i think it is a personal choice/decision. Not a legal one.
 
It’s legal and no one will get in trouble I have done my duty :cool:

But you know what is a lot worse than a legal issue in DC , it’s being involved with an issue the Washington Post or Congress is interested in. Oh can I speak for experience on that.

I personally think it’s a bad look. Especially with the articles that come every few years ,always wondering why the tax payers are paying for these govt prep schools.

Tax pay supported prep schools. Free tax payer supported tuition and living expenses. A tax payer paid for salary and health care as a member of the US military

And they are now competing with civilians for scholarships. And to pay for their own military uniforms. Which the tax payer is already paying for.

While the civilian is trying not to be completely buried by school debt.
 
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Maybe the responsibility for that decision resides with the party offering the scholarship? I do know that some will not award to someone attending a SA.

This is another one of those things that has many layers…and no correct answer. One being why should somone who does all that they do, for all the years they do, not be rewarded for that? As opposed to somone who didn't. Everyone has the same opportunity to apply for scholarships….
 
Interesting question, and many of the responses are coming from those with kids at Service Academies , not Prep School. (This is the Prep School forum!)

One significant difference is that Midshipman at USNA (and presumably Cadets at other SA's do have out of pocket costs ; they pay for Uniforms, Books, ECA's. It is certainly not unethical to use scholarship funds for those expenses (of course, subject to the terms of the specific scholarship etc).
On the other hand, Midshipman Candidates at USNA Prep School (and again, presumably other SA prep schools , but not Foundation or self prep programs) are enlisted in the Navy, and my recollection (going back almost 40 years) was that everything was paid for --uniforms and books issued, we ate in the mess hall, etc. If all expenses were paid for, accepting money to "pay" for those things would be unethical, and perhaps illegal.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Interesting question, and many of the responses are coming from those with kids at Service Academies , not Prep School. (This is the Prep School forum!)

One significant difference is that Midshipman at USNA (and presumably Cadets at other SA's do have out of pocket costs ; they pay for Uniforms, Books, ECA's. It is certainly not unethical to use scholarship funds for those expenses (of course, subject to the terms of the specific scholarship etc).
On the other hand, Midshipman Candidates at USNA Prep School (and again, presumably other SA prep schools , but not Foundation or self prep programs) are enlisted in the Navy, and my recollection (going back almost 40 years) was that everything was paid for --uniforms and books issued, we ate in the mess hall, etc. If all expenses were paid for, accepting money to "pay" for those things would be unethical, and perhaps illegal.
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That is why I started my response saying I wasn't sure about the particulars of the Prep Schools. If all expenses are covered, I agree that changes things. In that case, it would be down to whether the scholarship application specifies that the scholarship is to be used specifically for school expenses or not.
 
ProudMom7 said:
That is why I started my response saying I wasn't sure about the particulars of the Prep Schools. If all expenses are covered, I agree that changes things. In that case, it would be down to whether the scholarship application specifies that the scholarship is to be used specifically for school expenses or not.
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I interpret the requests to be about the years following the prep school year. They WILL be paying for the uniforms and books as well as many other fees/costs.
Does anyone think that the weekly haircuts are free?
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Interesting question, and many of the responses are coming from those with kids at Service Academies , not Prep School. (This is the Prep School forum!)

One significant difference is that Midshipman at USNA (and presumably Cadets at other SA's do have out of pocket costs ; they pay for Uniforms, Books, ECA's. It is certainly not unethical to use scholarship funds for those expenses (of course, subject to the terms of the specific scholarship etc).
On the other hand, Midshipman Candidates at USNA Prep School (and again, presumably other SA prep schools , but not Foundation or self prep programs) are enlisted in the Navy, and my recollection (going back almost 40 years) was that everything was paid for --uniforms and books issued, we ate in the mess hall, etc. If all expenses were paid for, accepting money to "pay" for those things would be unethical, and perhaps illegal.
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Everything is still paid for in so much that military uniforms and computers are paid for by taking money out of their monthly pay.

And they are still AD US Military employees being paid a fair wage in the eyes of the govt to do a certain govt job.

My job at one time was keeping federal employees out of trouble not getting them out of trouble. This would make me uncomfortable . And I am not entirely certain why.

Other than it has the appearance of AD prep school kids double dipping and being paid to do a govt job by the govt and then taking private money for doing the same govt job.

As an old PMO it just does not feel right.
 
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The academies including prep schools will accept scholarship monies to pay for any needed items and your cadet gets to keep more of their monthly pay. You will submit the scholarship directly to the school and they will apply it to the account.
As for the "all expenses are covered" statement. Nothing is truly free in this world. The education they are getting is paid for by their time in service after they graduate. The other items (uniforms, books, haircuts, athletic fees, misc items) are covered by your cadets monthly pay.
 
Most individual scholarships will state what they can be used for. Ones for tuition and fees would not be eligible. But straight up monies would most likely be able to be utilized. Even at civilian schools, the scholarships will specify what they can and can not be used for. My DD has an ROTC scholarship and received multiple scholarships that are strictly for tuition, fees, supplies. ROTC did a verification of scholarships and those monies went to the tuition, and ROTC was secondary. The other scholarships were used towards her Room and Board.
 
Not sure what you mean by saying "fees" would not be eligible? For SAs? For ROTC or Prep?

Like @ProudMom7 said, at least at SAs, the "cadet loan" is used to pay for costs and expenses including uniforms, supplies, a computer, etc. That "loan" is really paying back "fees" that the cadet incurs as part of their enrollment. Why would a scholarship that covers "fees" not be eligible to pay those fees?

Don't know about ROTC, prep schools, etc.
 
If it's available to you, take it. I have 3 in college, and am footing the bill all on my lonesome (except for my youngest little smarty-pants who scored an academic merit grant for her tuition, but I am still paying housing and everything else). Oh, she worked her tail off to get that.

My son (hopefully) will contract and get some help from ROTC by the end of next year (but again, I'll be providing all his living expenses).

Oldest could take the state teacher scholarship they are trying to force on her, but it's a deal with the devil, and I support her turning it down.

I make a very good salary, and could pay their ride all the way through with no help.

But does that mean I should leave grants and scholarships for the more "needy"? No, it does not. Many of their "free-ride" classmates are lazy, ignorant, and frankly, in college so their parents don't have to deal with them. I'd very happily have them accept $50, $100, $500, or $50,000 grants or scholarships. My 3 earned everything I am providing them, and I am more than happy to accept a little recognition for their hard work in cold hard cash.

No one should give a flying flip if some grunt wannabe who busted her tail to get an appointment is getting a grant from whomever, to help pay for her books, hair appointments, jog bras, or whatever.

Back to the point - if one qualifies for a program, it is in no way unethical to apply for it.
 
Tangential to this discussion, what is actually both unethical and illegal is claiming education credits for NAPS/USNA on a tax return.

Which MIDN do attempt, and do get in serious trouble over. Don't do it.

AD officers and enlisted are authorized to take prize money for things like the USNI essay contests and civilian organization awards. I don't see how this is different. Care just has to be taken to ensure the benefit given is not a "gift" over a certain value (e.g. challenge coins can't get too fancy).
 
Small Team Bacsi said:
It’s legal and no one will get in trouble I have done my duty :cool:

But you know what is a lot worse than a legal issue in DC , it’s being involved with an issue the Washington Post or Congress is interested in. Oh can I speak for experience on that.

I personally think it’s a bad look. Especially with the articles that come every few years ,always wondering why the tax payers are paying for these govt prep schools.

Tax pay supported prep schools. Free tax payer supported tuition and living expenses. A tax payer paid for salary and health care as a member of the US military

And they are now competing with civilians for scholarships. And to pay for their own military uniforms. Which the tax payer is already paying for.

While the civilian is trying not to be completely buried by school debt.
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As for government paying for prep schools, with all of the government waste (either side of the aisle) this is an investment in motivated young men and women. If you go to the Academy great, even if you don’t these young people are that much better equipped to become contributing members of society. I’d rather invest in young Americans than invest in a foreign lab, as a relevant recent example. (Again both parties, not being political)
 
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