Leaving during Plebe year? Advice from people who left during there plebe year...

Hurricane, I don't disagree with you. I had a plebe roommate quit and she never looked back. USNA really wasn't right for her. She went on to a great career and happy life -- with an interesting (and good) twist that I won't include here for privacy reasons.

What most of us are saying is that the OP needs to make a considered decision. Once you're out the door, it's hard to get back in. I, like many, decided to leave the USN before 20 yrs. I spent a lot of time thinking it through, talking about it with others, figuring out what I would do instead, etc. It turned out to be a great decision for me. However, I was more than a decade older than the OP and, therefore, I like to think that I had more experience, maturity, etc. in making my decision. He's in a tough place.

None of us can really advise the OP personally as we don't know him. We can only provide a general perspective based on our experiences and experiences of those we have known along the way.

In the end, we don't have to live with the consequences of the OP's decision. In my view, that's what being an adult is all about -- you make decisions and you live with the consequences, be they good or bad. That's where the OP is right now. And, hopefully, his friends and family will support him in whatever he decides to do.
 
What usna1985 said.

I left after plebe year, too. However, I had thought about it a lot, talked to the chaplains, upperclass both in and outside my chain, friends, my old HS guidance counselor...

I had not only figured out that USNA wasn't for me, but what WAS for me. I transferred to a SLAC, got my degree, and never looked back. I do not regret my decision at all. I don't regret my time at USNA either: there are still some habits I learned in that one year that serve me to this day - among them, the patience to make life-changing decisions deliberately and thoughtfully, and once made, to follow through with focus and mental clarity.

This is what I think people mean when they say things like, know what you're going toward. How you make your decision is as important as the decision you make.
 
Memphis9489 said:
When I read through this thread, I simply can't shake the image of that popular Christmas time show "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" (narrated by Burl Ives) where the elf didn't want to make toys like the other elves - he wanted to be a dentist. :)

Before I ever try to get into the heads of those contemplating leaving - I always want to know, "How are you doing at the Naval Academy?"

What are your grades like?

How well do you get along with your classmates?

What do the upperclassmen think of you?

How have your PRTs (Physical Readiness Test) been going?

Oftentimes, one's desire to quit is motivated by the fact that they do not think they will survive the experience; consequently, they convince themselves to "quit" before they get "fired". Or, sometimes it's just the shock of being "below average" when they have spent their entire life, up to this point, being the BEST at everything. Or, they see how much harder they have to work just to survive the daily grind (compared to everybody else) and it makes them feel like they don't belong.

My question is this: WHEN and WHY have you had this epiphany to become a dentist when you knew all along that that was never a realistic option when attending the United States Naval Academy?

The answer usually lies deeper than, "The Navy is just not for me." That's both a platitude and cliché. It's usually the exterior answer to a deeper issue that most do not publicly share.
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This describes me to a "T" first year in law school. My uncle snapped me out of it by saying, "Hell, Mike, the answer is very easy: if you want to be a lawyer you have to go to law school -- if you don't, then quit. So, let's get with it". I got with it and graduated.
 
usna1985 said:
In my view, that's what being an adult is all about -- you make decisions and you live with the consequences, be they good or bad.
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There's a famous quote that goes something like this:

Life is what happens while your making other plans.​

You can't always write a script for it.
 
"I'm about 95% sure I'm leaving following this semester "

OK, assuming you're making a sound decision, let's talk about the timing. If your goal is to attend another college soon, transferring after only one semester doesn't look too good to Admissions committees.

Then there is the practical matter: you've probably started year long courses (for example, Calculus) that though they're divided into two semesters, are not really meant to be broken up between schools. Beyond that, starting right away at another college means you will have to be accepted in the next few weeks. Do you have apps out now?

College is divided into four year long segments. If you're going to leave, the absolute best timing from an admissions perspective is after two years. If that is too long, then after one year. After one semester just speaks to a desperate situation or immature decision. Since you don't seem to be desperate or immature, I don't think sending that message to Adcoms would be fair to yourself.
 
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don't want to get this too far off topic, but your question about leaving in mid semester or mid year brings up a question. if one is unsat during their first two years and go before a board (academic not honor) can they be separated before the semester ends? how does that process work?
 
In my day, Ac Boards were held at the end of the semester. Thus, you weren't separated mid-semester for academics. I assume it's still true.
 
can a challenge in one class (no pun intended) 'sink you'? if one struggles with one class do they get on some type of probation and try to make it up during the summer?
 
Yes. Still, you can be certain, as you struggle in one class ... or 5, you will be receiving regular "attention" from various sources and support help when needed. Most often, academic failure is a choice/decision made by the Mid. Unlike many a secular institution, you are not a number left to your own devises.

What is valuable to grasp is that unlike non-SAs, where there might be some "incentive" to allow you to do what you will, including failing to succeed, (or at least little or no personal awareness and interest of others), the longer you are at a SA, the greater the public's investment in you. And this creates a dynamic that YOU should have a significant and growing sense of responsibility to succeed. Maybe perceiving yourself as having received "stimulus dollars." And you don't want to be perceived as a sappy solar company that was a total waste of those public bucks.

Conversely, the SA, an agent of the public good, has "vetted" you to the max, confident that you are worthy of a huge public investment. And so it is that, the SA has huge incentive as well to have you succeed, for its own self-interests. And the longer you are there, the greater this incentive and motivation to see you a winner.

On both fronts.

In sum, the model is entirely different than a traditional secular or private college or university.
 
Again, in my day, you were academically "unsat" if you had less than a 2.0 for the semester or overall, an "F" in any course or, I believe 2 Ds.

As WP noted, USNA does try to work with students to help them get through. This has always been the case. Things they can try include (but are not limited to), tutoring, study skills, changing majors, summer school. My understanding is that, today, fewer mids are separated for academics than in my day.

However, some can't handle the work and, unlike a civilian school, you can't extend your graduation to 5 yrs or 6 or whatever. And you have to have passed certain courses and completed sufficient credits to graduate. So, it's a challenge but one that more than 1000 mids successfully accomplish every year.
 
let me try to wrap this up my interest, i really appreciate the feedback. so if one gets a d (or two) or an f, they go to the ac board. i understand there are checkpoints and resources along the way to try to not get to this point. if the ac board's decision is to allow the mid to continue, if its a fall semester do they do work to try to raise the grade or ensure they will be prepared for the spring semester somehow over break. if its spring do they do extra work in summer. i understand if it continues, it would indicate mid either cannot or does not want to deal with the load.
 
'85 has noted an anecdotally important point in this possible scenario. Many, make that MANY are extended, and given every opportunity to succeed, when academic struggles come. The options she notes are exhausted in many cases.

The circumcision might come when it becomes evident that it is impossible for a Mid, even if he/she were somehow able to complete the failed essentials like calc or chem or whatever course among the myriad of requirements, going forward. For at some point, because of the substantial number of requirements and the sequential nature of those, it will become apparent that the Mid cannot complete the essentials in that 4 or at most 4 and a summer school and or additional semester ( a VERY RARE option most often reserved for unusual circumstances, i.e. illness/injury, a special semester awarded for various reasons that puts a Mid behind, etc.)

And so when that becomes a reality, even with notable improvement, it can be the end.

In any case, these occasional, rare scenarios usually reflect a candidate whose capability for success was misjudged. And with the competition being so rigorous, these are rare.
 
Racket, every academic board situation is different depending on the Mid, their class, and circumstances. Actually when I was there the ac board reviewed your stuff first and then decided to retain or separate someone. If you were separated, then you actually went before the board itself to "appeal." I happened to be one of those after first semester plebe year that was academically unsat. I didn't fail anything but had two Ds. I did go to an academic board, but survived it fine and was never in that situation again. Plebe year first semester there are a bunch of us in that boat and I do not remember anyone being separated after the first sememster plebe year for grades, although I am sure it has happened. I think everyone was retained and told to do better, they would be monitoring. For those who failed a class, they make the necessary adjustments to repeat that course and then you also get sent to mandatory summer school. If it is a very bad situation such as several failures and they decide to retain you, they chart out a path for summer school/catch up or to roll you a summer or semester.

The academic boards are intimidating. You sit at a tiny desk surrounded by the upper echelons of the academy leadership and academic departments with 3 or more projectors displaying grades, professor evals, fit reps, etc (none of which you can see). Professor evals played a huge role in how they dealt with us (at the time). It noted how much extra help we got, if we stayed awake in class, did we pay attention in class, homework on time, sit in the front row, etc. But the boards do get more critical as you grow in rank, as they expect more from you and for you to adapt, time manage, and succeed.

Luckily I had amazing team mates, coaches, team academic advisor, officer rep and squad leader who provided so much assitance in ensuring I would succeed. They made sure I was getting as much extra instruction as needed, planned out my weeks, communicated constantly with professors, upperclass left me alone during study hour and studied my butt off. It paid off. With reaching out for extra instruction, learning time management and study skills better I was able to be on the Dant's list youngster year. As a basketball player I was fortunate enough to go to summer school also. I know there are differing opinions why we go, but to be honest for alot of us it is to allow more flexibility in our schedules to try and not schedule classes the days we are normally traveling. Going from 21 to 18 hours is huge when trying to free up an afternoon that you normally travel. Minimizing missed class was a huge help in succeeding academically for me. My plebe year the basketball team missed 25 more days of class than any other sports team for a total of over 45 missed days of class. Not sure about you, but trying to figure out how to do a nav chart or mo board for the first time in my life from a book and no classroom time was rough.

I would say about 5-10 mids a year are rolled to graduate late... either after summer school completion firstie year or after first semester their fifth year. Alot of these folks are athletes, but not all of them, who were injured and they could combine one of the very rare red shirts season with this (like I said rare, doesn't even happen every year). Not every year, but there are some folks who graduate late for other things such as PRT failures, honor remediation, or conduct remediation. Like I said rare, but it does happen.

All in all a Mid knows if they have what it takes to succeed and if they are willing to put in the work to succeed. I do believe every Mid who is accepted can graduate. It is a matter if they can adapt to the rigors of the Academy mentally. Time management is a huge issue and for those who rarely studied in high school learning to study is also a big issue. The academy has more programs to help those succeed than any other school. The professors are more available for extra instruction than any school I have heard of, the academic department has study skills classes, and upperclass are willing to help read papers, assist with nav charts, etc. If you have the will, they is a way to make it.
 
Ex 2015 plebe here, just make sure you know for certain you want to leave. Have you talked to any chaplains, gone to Midshipmen Development Center, or anything else for advice? Do you have any specific plans on where you want to go to and how you're going to pay for it? Just if/when you do leave, make sure you have somewhere to go. Don't think back on it either, because it hurts. Good luck
 
Another component (which I believe I might have mentioned in a previous post) is recognizing you are falling behind. Not sure if someone mentioned this in one of the replies above. There are LIMITED grading opportunities in the semester (be it an exam, quiz, paper, project, etc); there might be only three exams in a semester and if you fail one -- well, you are in a hole. At the INSTANT you feel you are falling behind or are not understanding something, you need to seek help (whether classmate, professor, resource center, upperclass, study groups, etc.). Remember, at the end of the day -- YOU are responsible for YOUR grades; it is also a leadership failure on the Chain of Command for not recognizing the crack in the pipe.

You cannot come in with the "wait and see" attitude. YOU MUST be proactive, not reactive. If you come in with this drive, 99% of the time you will avoid having to go to the AcBoard (you can apply the same principles to just about anything USNA related....PRT, military evolutions, etc.).

As previously mentioned, if you are putting forth 130% effort, you might survive an AcBoard early on -- but as the time goes -- less forgiving.
 
neugs said:
I left at the end ofI-Day. It was an impulse and rash decision and I just wanted to get out of there. I know at the moment it probably feels terrible. Of course it will though. You know the saying 20,000 people apply but 1,000 regret it? I hate that saying because in reality, those 1,000 will be 1,000 light years ahead of everyone other college graduate. I didn't think of the future when I wated to leave. I only thought to myself that I wanteto get out and that I was the only one who felt scared and lost, when in reality, everyone else was in the same position as me. If you are still there and are thinking about leaving, wait until the end of the year. Sure civilian college would be so much more fun. But is that what you really want? Going to the academy you have a pride instilled in you. Nowhere else can you wake up and be proud of where you are going and what you are you are doing for this country. At civilian college, I wake up, look at the clock, and then say, looks like I can still sleep some more. Whereas at the academy, you wake up, perform your duties to set you up for the real life. I should have never left. It was such an immature decision. Not a day goes by that I don't think about it. To be honest, the feeling was terrible when I went back to my hometown. I didn't even make it pas the first day! And to go back to a town where they were so proud of my achievement (very few people have been accepted over the years from my town). And for my parents, I felt like a failure to them. There is no greater feeling than saying "My son/daughter attends an Academy.". I'm just putting it in reality that for te first couple weeks you will keep questioning yourself. Hell, I'm still questioning myself. I want to know what I really want to do with my life. It sucks. I feel like a I have a load of guilt on me all the time. In class, in my form, talking with my friends; all of those somehow relate back to Annapolis and haunt me. I feel like each and very way I turn, something relates to the Navy. But that's just the way it is. I remember my Dad saying to me prior to me leaving to Annaplis that, "Think about it, all the stories you will have for your kids, grand kids, friends. There will be no greater feeling than going to this place." He was right. Now I'm at a private catholic school and yea, the life is fun. But it will never beat the pride and feeling of being at the Naval Academy.

However, if you still do decide to leave. I believe that eventually, you will overcome the feeling of leaving. At least that's what I hope. Hope you
got somethin out of this.
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Ouch.

Damn.... :frown:
 
LongAgoPlebe said:
What usna1985 said.

I left after plebe year, too. However, I had thought about it a lot, talked to the chaplains, upperclass both in and outside my chain, friends, my old HS guidance counselor...

I had not only figured out that USNA wasn't for me, but what WAS for me. I transferred to a SLAC, got my degree, and never looked back. I do not regret my decision at all. I don't regret my time at USNA either: there are still some habits I learned in that one year that serve me to this day - among them, the patience to make life-changing decisions deliberately and thoughtfully, and once made, to follow through with focus and mental clarity.

This is what I think people mean when they say things like, know what you're going toward. How you make your decision is as important as the decision you make.
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Dear LongAgoPlebe,

I read your post about how you left USNA and still had a successful life, and want to tell you that it was very inspiring for me. I am currently a plebe at the Merchant Marine Academy, and I plan to leave soon. I have a plan for when I come back home, and my parents support me for whichever decision I make One parent supports my leave more than the other (I will not name which one), but regardless I will leave. Can you give me any advice on how to act before leaving the academy, how to leave the academy, and what to do once I return home? Thank you for sharing your story, because it helps plebes like me feel better.

Regards,

SouthPaw
 
this is quite a thread...

Neuggs (I think I spelled that correctly - I cannot "see" it now) As a mother of a current Plebe I want to hug you. I agree with the others that clearly you are a very brave person to put yourself out there and tell us of your situation.

As far as the original post (again can't recall the user ID) my plebe wants to be a MD. She knows she has to work REALLY hard to get Medical Corps out of USNA. But, she also knows if she doesn't get it, she can still pursue med school - it is just going to take longer. The Medical Officer at the Brigade currently was 3 years into his committment and was approved for Medical and (obviously) never looked back.

My point, it is not impossible. Talk with people in the know there. From every aspects I have experienced through our Plebe - USNA wants you to succeed.

I know 4 years and the 5 year committment seem like a lifetime, but trust me - it is not.

I just would hate for you to leave and regret it. As far as your father, I am sure he only wants what is best for you. I obviously don't know the situation, but from a parent perspective, we aren't perfect. We live and breathe for our kids and want them to be the best they can be.

Good luck.
 
Good Lord folks! Until yesterday, this thread was 3 years old. I doubt any (or at least many) of the original posters are still around. Let sleeping dogs lie.
 
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